CSO @ The Allen Institute believes consciousness arises out of any complex system

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
He states, 'consciousness arises within any sufficiently complex, information-processing system.' All I can think of that fits that description are brains, and perhaps computers. Earthworms and the internet being conscious? I can't say I agree. There are many different definitions for consciousness, but to me its defining characteristics are self-awareness, self-reflection and developing culture. Perhaps dolphins and higher primates show some inkling of being conscious, but not lower life forms or machines as of yet. I read a fascinating book years ago entitled, The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-cameral Mind, by Dr. Julian Jaynes of Princeton University. Its a very long and complex book, but I feel it's a great attempt to show what consciousness is, and what it is not, and how it might have developed in humans. His hypothesis shows how even though we have essentially the same physical brain as ancient homo sapiens, we did not discover consciousness until much later (i.e. our brains are the hardware, and we are able to run consciousness on it as a type of software). We know that consciousness is taught, as children brought up without it (as in the wild) don't develop it. He points to ancient writings as reflecting this; early Mesopotamia, Egypt and Greece display writing that objectively reports events that occurred (like the Iliad) with no internal/subjective struggle or feelings. This is a stark contrast to later works that are full of this reflection/subjectivity/internal mind-space displayed in later works (like the Odyssey). From this and many other data, He hypothesizes that we discovered consciousness when a simpler bi-cameral mental process broke down in the face of growing complexity of merging cultures and other survival challenges. But, I digress. I'm sure Mr. Koch knows much more than I about consciousness, I'll just have to read much more of what he has to say before I understand where he's coming from...
 

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Cool, thanks! I love how Wired really puts his feet to the coals. His explanations still seems rather fuzzy to me (and to the interviewer), but I love the ways he can think of to test his theory of panpsychism. It would then fall under science and not metaphysics. He seems like a brilliant guy that uses intuition to put himself on certain paths, but always comes back to the scientific method to test. Very interesting, thanks for posting, BB...
 

Thesleeper

Member
This idea is a very old one indeed. Take the oldest complex system known to primitive man, nature, specifically, the nature of the earth. We know that even our primitive ancestors understood the consciousness of the earth in the form it takes, even so much so that many religions arouse out of worship of the balance of nature. Take note, this is consciousness, not sentience; Although the former usually leads to the latter given time and more complexity.

It's not that any physical system has consciousness. A black hole, a heap of sand, a bunch of isolated neurons in a dish, they're not integrated. They have no consciousness. But complex systems do. And how much consciousness they have depends on how many connections they have and how they're wired up.
I would tend to say he relies less on intuition and much more on a re-examination of history. I do enjoy that he wants to test these theories, we can talk about the lake all day long but eventually someone has to check how deep.
 
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