Creme de la Chem from Mephisto Jan 22

Started four seeds on 16 Jan and they went into soil at 0420 this morning. Not superstitious or anything, but I was up...

growing in cloth bags with stratified soil. Bottom third is Rootz, sprinkling of powdered bat guano, another layer of FF Ocean Forrest, then a layer of FF Happy Frog. Good dose of diatomaceous earth mixed in the top. Poked a hole about 4 inches deep with a lawn probe and filled that half way with FF Light Warrior and added Great White. Dropped the seeds in and filled the hole with more Light Warrior. I assume that giving the seedlings the loosest soil to start benefits them, and the soil gets more dense as you go further down toward the bottom of the pot. I used this method on previous grows, and they seem to like it...

Advertised time to harvest is 65-70 days, so shooting for end of March/early April to bring it all in...just in time to start another 4 to spend their early life indoors and them move outdoors on 1 May.

the grow space is in a tub/shower enclosure Surrounded by LED and T5 lighting. Only have the LED running now, T5s will come on after they show 3 nodes.

a friend of mine started four Strawberry Nuggets from Mephisto on the same day, so it’ll be fun to watch/manage both grows simultaneously.

and away we go...

Two of the Creme de la Chem did not break soil, so I started the freebies I got from Mephisto in their place. They are a 4 way cross; (Sour Stomper x Creme de la Chem) x (Forum Stomper x Skywalker). I asked Mephisto for some information on these but no response so I’m flying blind on these. I’ve had great luck with his beans (notwithstanding the recent tow that didn’t take hold), so I’ll assume the 4 way cross will be a winner too.

I just got an infrared heat gun to check leaf temps and I’m at 75 degrees right now. The thermometer in the grow space shows 90 degrees (directly under a light) and 22% RH. I have an ultrasonic humidifier in the grow space already to try and get the humidity up and will add in a large pan with some soaked towels. I think at a 75 degree leaf temp, the humidity should be around 45% - 50% for the best conditions. This is my first attempt at manipulating the VPD so lots to learn.

I goofed up, and have my T5 fixtures running 24/0 (they are hung vertically at the back and front of the enclosure pointing inward towards the plants). There is a six bulb fixture at the front pointing in, and a four bulb fixture at the back, also pointing inward. The four bulb fixture has three 6,500k T5 bulbs and a 3,500k LED bulb. the six bulb fixture has five 6,500k T5 bulbs and a 3,500k LED bulb. I left the 3,500 LED bulbs in the mix just to add to the spectrum of light the plants see, and when I hit flowering all the 6,500k T5 bulbs will be replaced with 3,500k T5 bulbs.

The LED that is hovering over the plants is running at 20/4 and is a full spectrum light.

On a previous grow, I had the lighting schedule reversed - the LED was at 20/4, and the T5 lights were at 18/6. I set it up this way to give the plants the most intense light during the middle of the lighting period to simulate the increase in light intensity found in nature as the sun rises and sets in the sky. I gave them a sunrise and sunset period at either end of the lighting period where they only received light from the LED suspended above. The results were pretty good IMHO.


The Skywalkers were dense, and had minimal LARF. There were no bud sites that did not get light at some point during the day - the direct side lighting from the T5 fixtures, hitting the plants a 90 degrees kept all the lower branches/flowers growing in size and packing on tricromes. To add to that, I trained the lower branches to grow horizontally to get out from under/inside the canopy. At about 3 weeks into flower, I removed the restraints and let them go au natural. It was possible to see exactly where that transition happened as the horizontal branches stayed that way, but the buds at the ends (which were exposed to full light) made a 90 degree turn upwards and continued to grow. So, I’m sold on side lighting.

back to the present situation; I’ve been researching 24/0, 20/4 etc cycles. After slogging thru a bunch of wildly disparate opinions, I decided to leave things the way they are. 24/0 for the T5 fixtures, and 20/4 for the suspended LED. These are autos, so with a limited veg period, and shorter life span overall, I’m gonna give them all the light I can while still mimicking the natural cycle of less intense light at the beginning of the lighting period (the suspended LED alone) and more intense lighting in the middle of the lighting period (the suspended LED and the inward pointing T5s).

Hanging down from the ends of the enclosure are a pair of 2 foot two bulb T5 fixtures with 10,000k finishing bulbs. They are not active now and I’ll fire them up about 3 or 4 weeks into flowering with a cycle of 15 min on per hour for the middle 4 hours of the lighting period the LED is on. That’ll mimic the natural increase in light intensity outdoor plants see as the sun rises and sets in a more directly overhead orientation as the sun progress toward the summer equinox.

never give a retired engineer too much time to think about a problem…the solution maybe needlessly complicated.

Also decided to keep them all on a strictly ph 6.0 water diet for now. The 4 way crosses are a week and a half younger than the Creme de la Chem plants so I need another week on them before I start nutrients. The Creme de la Chem will still keep developing, and I’ll be able to get them on the same feeding schedule. I don’t wanna be mixing up different concoctions for them.

I think the first week of feeding is gonna be organic. I subscribe to the school of varied nutrients thru their life, at normally 1/2 recommended strength with a day of ph 6.0 water, and a dry day in the schedule.

Recharge
Liquid bat and seabird guano
Liquid bone meal
Fish Shit

the plants should benefit from a week of getting the microbes active and plentiful before I introduce the Fox Farms full suite, salt based nutes and other non-organic nutes. That arsenal includes the following:

FF Suite
Mammoth P
Kool bloom
Armor Si
Ripen
Terpinator
Purpinator
Cal Mag
Super Thrive

in my last grow I was pretty generous with the Armor Si and I think that paid off in thicker stems and branches that held up the weight of some pretty big buds with no support. Again, about half strength dosing and varying combinations depending on whether the plants were in flowering or not. I can’t really think of anything I could add into the schedule at this point, but another trip to the local hydro store (baked of course) will prolly add to the arsenal. Below are pics of the feeding schedule I maintained on the Skywalker grow and it seemed to work very well…

Since these are autos I don’t plan on topping or FIMing. I’ll manipulate the lower branches outwards, leaf tuck and remove damaged leaves or those that are blocking bud sites.

Couple long winded posts, but electrons are cheap, and helps me get the plan together…

My Skywalker harvest in Dec 21 - the benchmark I’ll try to beat on this grow.

Things are progressing well…couple more days on the water diet and then I start the first week of organic food. Still having a tough time getting the temp and humidity in the tight VPD range. It’ll become easier to get the RH up as then plants grow and add humidity from transpiration…

They are plumping up…leaf temps in the low 80s.

I'm subbed bruv. The babies look great! I'll be popping my own Creme de la Chem as soon as my current plants are finished. Good luck and grow in piece bruv!

fantastic setup again. I need some advice on mine. Having a hard time managing heat. Perhaps overkill with two SF4000’s and two SF1000’s but should pay off in flower….

Dabs_Offa_Hot9 said:

I'm subbed bruv. The babies look great! I'll be popping my own Creme de la Chem as soon as my current plants are finished. Good luck and grow in piece bruv!

Click to expand...

Thanks, ill keep updating and describing things I dream up to increase potency and yield. My first grows were seat of the pants - pop the beans, drop in the dirt and see what happens. I never bothered with pH adjustment, monitoring VPD, anticipating problems and heading them off. That has all changed and the plants love the extra attention and care…

Bike247 said:

fantastic setup again. I need some advice on mine. Having a hard time managing heat. Perhaps overkill with two SF4000’s and two SF1000’s but should pay off in flower….

Click to expand...

There are two measurements critical in managing heat — ambient temperature in the grow space, and leaf temperature. I think, but am not sure, that the leaf temp is the more critical since it along with RH affect the leaves’ ability to transpire and absorb nutrients. My leaf temps run around 75 degrees, while the thermometer in the space reads 90 (and over sometimes).

I use RH to give me an idea of how often I should water/feed - lower RH leads to more frequent watering since the soil dries out more quickly. I have my plants in cloth pots sitting in plastic saucers, and sometimes fill the saucers with pH 6.0 water to force capillary action in the soil, (wick the water upwards in the dirt). and increase the RH. This also helps to get the soil into a more homogeneous state - I layered the soil with Rootz on the bottom, then a dusting of dry bat guano, then FF Ocean Forrest, a dusting of dry earthworm castings, FF Happy Frog, and a final (about 2 inches thick) layer of FF Light Warrior. The goal was to give the plants the “airest” medium in early life for root growth and penetration, then make the soil more dense as the roots gain mass and strength. Wicking water upwards in the medium helps to make the transition between the zones a bit more gradual as the roots stretch out. Hard to tell if this is worth the effort/cost, but hasn’t killed any off yet so I keep tweaking the approach.

on my next grow, I’m gonna modify the above a bit. I’ll still use the layering approach, but Im going to use a 2 or 3 inch piece of PVC in the center of the pot to create a voided column as I place the layered soil around it. Once the soil is at the top of the pot, I’ll give it a good compaction around the PVC, gently remove it and fill the voided column with Light Warrior mixed with Great White. This will hopefully give the tap root a path of least resistance to the bottom of the pot, and accelerate growth of all the lateral roots that emanate from the tap root.

I also have a pan of wet dish towels in the space with a fan blowing on them to add to the RH. I had an ultrasonic humidifier in the space for a while too but was getting condensation on the surfaces in the grow space and hated the thought of standing water on/near the lights. I’m sure they are all waterproof to some extent, but better safe than sorry.

the challenge of hitting the VPD sweet spot changes as the plants grow and start adding their own humidity to the enclosure. All the humidity addition techniques and equip go in the closet and the dehumidifier comes out…

My whole house humidifier arrives on Monday so we’ll see what effect that has. I needed to get this to get the RH in my house at least into the 40% -60% range to protect some of my guitars from drying out too…

your plants look like they are off to a great start so I wouldn’t stress too much right now, and I think you can dial down the intensity on your lights if needed.

based on yr previous grows, I think you are in the sweet spot so just keep doin what you are doin!

Things are going well - the two four way crosses I had to substitute for Creme de la Chem seeds that did not pop are catching up. One of the CdlC seeds might have fought it’s way to the surface, (photo 2 below) but it looks pretty deformed. I’ll let it go for a while just to see what it does.

gave them a good dose of guano tea (bat and seabird) and SI this morning, filled the saucers with ph 6.3 water (they wicked that up in just a couple minutes) and brought the LED light a little closer. There are branches starting to develop underneath the large fan leaves so some leaf tucking will be in order. If I can get these branches to grow horizontally to the edge of the pot and be in the direct path of the side lighting from the T5 fixtures they will take off on their own. That LST will start in a few days.

the Skywalker I stockpiled from the previous harvest is curing well, and will be the main course on the menu today…

Started some LST on the Crem de la Chem by pinning down the first set of branches with flowers sites; I’ll keep pinning them down until they reach the edge of the pot and then keep them there until about week 3 of flowering.

the pots were pretty heavy this morning so I backed off on the volume of feed I gave them this morning, liquid bone meal and a dash of Great White Shark. The microbes should all be in high gear now, so I’ll hit them with a 50% strength feed of FF Week 1 tomorrow, then a day of water, and then probably a dry day.

the 2 CdlC have filled in nicely and in a pretty symmetrical fashion so LST will hopefully be easy and gentle on the plants. Still no idea what the four way cross plants from Mephisto are gonna do, and the mutant is still hanging in there…

Man I hope my CDLC shows that same kind of structure! I can't wait. Keep up the good work bruv!

Dabs_Offa_Hot9 said:

Man I hope my CDLC shows that same kind of structure! I can't wait. Keep up the good work bruv!

Click to expand...

Dabs, i hope your CdlC turn out well too. I started mine with a couple weeks of plain water (ph 6.0 ish), and started them on organic nutrients this week (Recharge, Fish Shit, liquid Bone Meal, and guano tea). Just gave them a 75%ish dose of FF WK2 and they are reaching for the sky…I’ll snap some pics later on today…

the 2 four way crosses I had to use as substitutes for CdlC seeds that did not sprout are catching up too. One of the CdlC seeds did appear, as a mutant I’m letting go for now…will probably sacrifice it in favor of the 4 way cross with which it might compete…

humidity in the enclosure which I have a sealed off as much as I can manage is up around 40% (it was as low as 16% while they were just popping out) and leaf temp is around 80 degrees. That’d be the sweet spot of flowering if I read the charts correctly. I’ve done all I can think of to get the RH up so gonna just have to live with it. I have grown a couple rotations of plants in the enclosure and never paid attention to VPD, so I think they’ll survive…

Fish Shit and SI to start day-breakfast of champions!

the leaves feel just a little dry, so I’ll put another pan of wet dish towels in the enclosure and keep the ultrasonic humidifier running at full blast. The mist from the humidifier is launched into the enclosure by a box fan I have angled upwards. Pays the added dividend of keeping elevated in the breeze some big fan leaves that otherwise would block the side lighting from hitting bud sites that have not yet been extended to outsdide the canopy.

I think the two CdlC are gonna be short and stout, and the jury is still out on the two 4 way cross plants. The mutant is still chugging along as well…

Retired engineer said:

Fish Shit and SI to start day-breakfast of champions!

the leaves feel just a little dry, so I’ll put another pan of wet dish towels in the enclosure and keep the ultrasonic humidifier running at full blast. The mist from the humidifier is launched into the enclosure by a box fan I have angled upwards. Pays the added dividend of keeping elevated in the breeze some big fan leaves that otherwise would block the side lighting from hitting bud sites that have not yet been extended to outsdide the canopy.View attachment 5083600View attachment 5083601View attachment 5083602View attachment 5083603View attachment 5083604View attachment 5083605View attachment 5083606View attachment 5083607View attachment 5083608View attachment 5083609

I think the two CdlC are gonna be short and stout, and the jury is still out on the two 4 way cross plants. The mutant is still chugging along as well…

Click to expand...

Your mutant looks more like a pepper plant right now. Hopefully we'll get to see how she turns out!

I’ll keep the mutant going for as long as I can, and might try to see if I can ease it out of the soil and put in a smaller container. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

the timing on the current grow is not ideal- I really wanted to start earlier in January to finish in early April so I could get my outdoor crop started inside and then put outside on 1 May. As it is, the current crop might not finish until mid/late April so I’ll need to adjust the plan once I get closer to harvesting what is growing now. My overall goal,is to be finished with the outdoor grow in late Aug or early Sep. mid Sep is when I started to have issues with bugs and critters last year, so want to avoid that. Additionally, my growing spot on my patio starts to lose sun around then and I wind up carting the plants around in the yard chasing the sun.

I found some cubical fabric grow pots that I might try outdoors in milk crates this summer and might bend 2 plants over horizontally as I did last year, and let 2 just go au natural…at this point my hobby is more focused on artistry (contorting the plants into odd shapes) than yield.

Yesterday was a dry day for the plants, not me though…

full strength dose of Recharge this morning the keep the microbes happy. I was gonna apply some LST but the plants are growing like shrubs, and the bud sites are developing inside the canopy but not substantial enuff to start bending. I snapped on small branch on one of the 4 way crosses and called it quits after that. Some gentle leaf tucking was the order of the day.

Fox farms week 4 for breakfast and some leaf tucking and defoliation to get bud sites exposed. Pinned down to horizontal a couple of the lower branches to get them trained from under the canopy out into the light…now is the time for patience and persistence in applying LST; little bit every day until they hit around the fourth week of flowering then let ‘em rip!

the mutant is still hanging in There and I have it pinned to the soil and will coil it around the perimeter of the pot as long as it decides it wants to grow…