Covid-19

Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
i would be pleased to see some kind of concrete proof that this isn't the end of our existence. i'm not happy to have to say that i think when you die, that is the end of you, but i've never seen one bit of factual information that says otherwise, just fantasies and wishes, couched in pseudo-scientific jargon to make it go down the ignorant masses throats easier
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Concrete proof? Because science can’t prove it doesn’t mean it’s not true. That’s absurd thinking and completely backwards. We are merely trying to understand what already is. A tree was always a tree before we started to understand it no?

So the truth is. We are trying to understand that truth with this evolving intelligence.

You want me to show you proof? It’s like I said. How warm is that water without going in?

You need to experience it to understand it. End of.

I can’t show you ‘proof’ because only you die. You’re not going to experience my death are you ? Death is the most personal experience.

Amazingly it’s only a fairly modern day concept that death is the end.

So your ‘proof’ will be the day it’s too late :(

Maybe deep down you wonder at an afterlife.

Because if what most people think is true. You live, you die, end of. Then there is literally no point in being alive if you are dead for eternity. You’d be running around mortified at your impending doom.

Hope you can at least acknowledge some of what I’ve said. If not I’ll move on
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Nutty sKunK said:
It is an assumption!!!! Only you experience you. Where’s the proof i cease to exist when I die? Hmm? You can only experience your own death not someone else’s. So it is not a FACT my experience ends when I die. It is a fact my experience as this body ends sure.
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As we've been over, consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. When your brain is destroyed or dies you have no more consciousness, since there is no longer a functioning brain to generate consciousness. The idea that your consciousness is not tied to your brain is simply wishful thinking, much like a child playing make believe to make themselves feel better. It is understandable in the child, but one would hope that an adult mind would be better able to cope with the reality shown. I suppose inevitable death is so frightening to most that they will turn to illogical, magical thinking in order to deny it. To each their own.

So this proof you seek is impossible.
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Of course it is. It is not possible to obtain proof of things that do not exist.

It’s like asking me to prove the water is warm without going in it!
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No it isn't. That's stupid.

Do you see what you’re asking is quite silly?
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Proof of the non-existent? Yes. That is the point.

It’s a book available. It’s called DMT the Spirit molecule. Search if you want but I get the feeling your minds already made up.
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I am always open to evidence. As I said, feel free to post links to credible, peer-reviewed data that supports any of your claims. We are waiting...
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
Yes according to Einstein and relativity, for us time is linear. The fact you discuss bending of time implies that normal time is linear and can become warped. Usually this warping requires huge energy expenditure.

This is a nice article if you're interested
www.space.com

Time Warps and Black Holes: The Past, Present & Future of Space-Time

Time and space together make up four-dimensional space-time, but will it ever be something scientists can fully comprehend?
www.space.com www.space.com

You discuss taking DMT as proof of something and yes I know about DMT. I've seen some amazing things on acid. I actually had the good fortune to take some of the actual Sandoz LSD 25 product many years ago. It was a fascinating journey but I didn't consider it proof of anything other than a fascinating trip that made me think hard about myself and my life path.


Actually we can show proof of esoteric and unseeable things using mathematics and carefully formed experiments in physics. I hold experiments on consciousness to no higher or lesser standard. Science developed over millenia of careful observation and reproducible experimentation. We moved slowly and altered our laws as we proved them.

At no point did we simply come up with a desirable belief based on a drug induced, fever dream and conclude that was reality. It's a wonderful story and I'd be happy for you if it's true. But until it can be tested and replicated it's merely a very nice story.

Anyway thank you for not killing me to prove your point :bigjoint: I wish you well but hope you get vaccinated. Your vaccination status should in no way change your lovely story.
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I was aware of it being near black holes. Haven’t looked into it much just was aware of it.

Yea LSD was awesome lol Very insightful. Tried DMT once but didn’t work properly. Dont think we got it to burn hot enough. Ach well I have it every night when I dream lol

Here’s something that’ll blow your mind.

Every experiment conducted by man is missing the most important factor.

He forgets to include that himself is a factor to what he experiences externally.

Calculating our origins through the physical senses (eye sight, hearing etc) is completely false. Because the senses are not even real!

You never even seen something now. Every human sense is in the past. Not now.
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
As we've been over, consciousness is an emergent property of the brain. When your brain is destroyed or dies you have no more consciousness, since there is no longer a functioning brain to generate consciousness. The idea that your consciousness is not tied to your brain is simply wishful thinking, much like a child playing make believe to make themselves feel better. It is understandable in the child, but one would hope that an adult mind would be better able to cope with the reality shown. I suppose inevitable death is so frightening to most that they will turn to illogical, magical thinking in order to deny it. To each their own.



Of course it is. It is not possible to obtain proof of things that do not exist.



No it isn't. That's stupid.



Proof of the non-existent? Yes. That is the point.



I am always open to evidence. As I said, feel free to post links to credible, peer-reviewed data that supports any of your claims. We are waiting...
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Nobody has proved that mate. Nobody has proved that once the body dies their experience stops. It’s an assumption by us, the dying living.

If what you’re saying is true then consciousness must have a form? But it doesn’t. Consciousness is formless.

Anyways I can’t be fucked trying to prove it. Not my job on this Earth.

You either get it or you don’t.

But don’t be so hung up on the fact that this physical world is all that there is.
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
I’ll leave this here. By a spiritual teacher called Barry Long. His books are extremely eye opening. I’d highly recommend ‘The origins of Man and the universe’ quite an epic title but the book certainly lives up to the name.

Have a nice life :)


'There is only one I in the universe. And it is in the body reading these words.


I, the enlightened state of consciousness in man, am God. I am God being-man. The man I am is certainly not God. The God I am is nothing to anything in existence. And this nothing, or I, manifests through the senses to be what I am not, an appearance. Although I am not that, I appear to be that to my self and any self.


So it is said, or I say in the enlightened man down through the ages, ‘I am what I am.' The people who see my appearance say, ‘You are this or that.' But I say, ‘No, I am neither this nor that. I am nothing in everything.


Be still and know that I am God.'
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Nutty sKunK said:
Nobody has proved that mate. Nobody has proved that once the body dies their experience stops. It’s an assumption by us, the dying living.
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If our consciousness equals our experience, then yes, that begins and ends with our brain. If you are suggesting that our experience is something other than brain generated consciousness, there is no demonstration of that. Childish wishful thinking.
If what you’re saying is true then consciousness must have a form? But it doesn’t. Consciousness is formless.
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Where are you getting that from? Why would neuronal firings have a form? Patterns perhaps, but not a form. This is just more of your baseless assertions. Feel free to back up your assertions, which you have yet to do.
Anyways I can’t be fucked trying to prove it. Not my job on this Earth.
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Of course not. Who wants their beliefs to be backed up with proof? Wait...
You either get it or you don’t.
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I get it. It is you that doesn't seem to get it.
But don’t be so hung up on the fact that this physical world is all that there is.
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I'm not hung up on that fact, you seem to be. I accept the fact that the physical world is all that is shown to exist. It is you that seems to have a hard time with it. Don't be so afraid of death, it is a natural part of life. Our existence will eventually end, so make the most of the time you have and don't waste it on unsupported absurdities.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
- Mark Twain

“Death is nothing to us. When we exist, death is not; and when death exists, we are not. All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain. The fear of death arises from the belief that in death, there is awareness.”
- Epicurus
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Nutty sKunK said:
Concrete proof? Because science can’t prove it doesn’t mean it’s not true. That’s absurd thinking and completely backwards. We are merely trying to understand what already is. A tree was always a tree before we started to understand it no?

So the truth is. We are trying to understand that truth with this evolving intelligence.

You want me to show you proof? It’s like I said. How warm is that water without going in?

You need to experience it to understand it. End of.

I can’t show you ‘proof’ because only you die. You’re not going to experience my death are you ? Death is the most personal experience.

Amazingly it’s only a fairly modern day concept that death is the end.

So your ‘proof’ will be the day it’s too late :(

Maybe deep down you wonder at an afterlife.

Because if what most people think is true. You live, you die, end of. Then there is literally no point in being alive if you are dead for eternity. You’d be running around mortified at your impending doom.

Hope you can at least acknowledge some of what I’ve said. If not I’ll move on
Click to expand...
As for water temp we have thermometers. We no longer throw virgins into volcanos to test the temperatures or to appease the gods.

Can you please explain why if we are unlimited consciousness why removing or damaging specific parts of our brain results in an alteration in our personality? Our consciousness should just continue on. But without requiring proof you can make up any fairytale that fits with your personal paradigm.

Finally you say, "Because if what most people think is true. You live, you die, end of. Then there is literally no point in being alive if you are dead for eternity. You’d be running around mortified at your impending doom."

That is absolutely not true. Just because you feel that way or think that way doesn't make it universally so for others. I'd highly recommend you read Viktor Frankl's, "Man's Search for Meaning" It's about a neurologist/psychiatrist who spent WWII in a concentration camp and what he learned from overwhelming despair and death.

Actually if you look at economics scarce and limited items are appreciated more. Possibly the point of our lives is they are so fleetingly transient.
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
If our consciousness equals our experience, then yes, that begins and ends with our brain. If you are suggesting that our experience is something other than brain generated consciousness, there is no demonstration of that. Childish wishful thinking.


Where are you getting that from? Why would neuronal firings have a form? Patterns perhaps, but not a form. This is just more of your baseless assertions. Feel free to back up your assertions, which you have yet to do.


Of course not. Who wants their beliefs to be backed up with proof? Wait...


I get it. It is you that doesn't seem to get it.


I'm not hung up on that fact, you seem to be. I accept the fact that the physical world is all that is shown to exist. It is you that seems to have a hard time with it. Don't be so afraid of death, it is a natural part of life. Our existence will eventually end, so make the most of the time you have and don't waste it on unsupported absurdities.

“I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it.”
- Mark Twain

“Death is nothing to us. When we exist, death is not; and when death exists, we are not. All sensation and consciousness ends with death and therefore in death there is neither pleasure nor pain. The fear of death arises from the belief that in death, there is awareness.”
- Epicurus
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How can you honestly say when my or your
Experience started?!?! It’s an assumption that it began in the womb isn’t it?

Experience transcends memory.

I take it you’ve never had an outer body experience before? I’m not the only one either and that is only possible because my consciousness can move out of my body.


The trouble we have here is that you think consciousness has form. Where is your proof? Lol

Show me a piece of consciousness, I’ll have 20gs please. Lol

It’s nothing. Consciousness is nothing. In its purest state. It’s what you are merelt
Conscious of that changes.



I have been dead for billions of billions of years. Lol. How does he know that? Good memory. Poor quote.

‘When death exists we are not’ Oh so you’ve been dead then? Just another assumption

The fear of death arrises because of the unknown. We have forgotten our immortality. And created tomorrow the future, to deal with it.

I don’t know what happens when I die. The truth is nobody knows. I just know I’ll be there to witness it.

This is worth 20 mins of your time.

 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
As for water temp we have thermometers. We no longer throw virgins into volcanos to test the temperatures or to appease the gods.

Can you please explain why if we are unlimited consciousness why removing or damaging specific parts of our brain results in an alteration in our personality? Our consciousness should just continue on. But without requiring proof you can make up any fairytale that fits with your personal paradigm.

Finally you say, "Because if what most people think is true. You live, you die, end of. Then there is literally no point in being alive if you are dead for eternity. You’d be running around mortified at your impending doom."

That is absolutely not true. Just because you feel that way or think that way doesn't make it universally so for others. I'd highly recommend you read Viktor Frankl's, "Man's Search for Meaning" It's about a neurologist/psychiatrist who spent WWII in a concentration camp and what he learned from overwhelming despair and death.

Actually if you look at economics scarce and limited items are appreciated more. Possibly the point of our lives is they are so fleetingly transient.
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Lol you missed the point. My point is you don’t know until you experience, using an instrument to measure it is the same as using the body. It’s an external source.

Try and describe to me the colour red. You can’t can you? You have to simply experience it.

Why does it alter our personality? Well because our personalities are a build up of past. Our characters remain the same but our personality changes. So with any alteration to the brain or will of course alter your state of consciousness. But that’s irrelevant because what I’m proposing is that you are consciousness itself. An invisible yet undeniable form of life in existence. This same consciousness is with you from the womb to now. It is living which has shaped your personality not life itself. So you consciousness does go on it’s what are we conscious of? You see?

The reason it’s true is because your subconscious/unconcious mind is much quicker than you at figuring things out. What I’m saying is that deep down you have a knowledge of your immortality. It’s just forgotten.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Nutty sKunK said:
Lol you missed the point. My point is you don’t know until you experience, using an instrument to measure it is the same as using the body. It’s an external source.

Try and describe to me the colour red. You can’t can you? You have to simply experience it.

Why does it alter our personality? Well because our personalities are a build up of past. Our characters remain the same but our personality changes. So with any alteration to the brain or will of course alter your state of consciousness. But that’s irrelevant because what I’m proposing is that you are consciousness itself. An invisible yet undeniable form of life in existence. This same consciousness is with you from the womb to now. It is living which has shaped your personality not life itself. So you consciousness does go on it’s what are we conscious of? You see?

The reason it’s true is because your subconscious/unconcious mind is much quicker than you at figuring things out. What I’m saying is that deep down you have a knowledge of your immortality. It’s just forgotten.
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The bolded highlights a mistake you are making.
Going by experience is subjective.
Using instruments yields objective information.
Without a shared objective basis, we are only talking about our feelings.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
Nutty sKunK said:
Lol you missed the point. My point is you don’t know until you experience, using an instrument to measure it is the same as using the body. It’s an external source.

Try and describe to me the colour red. You can’t can you? You have to simply experience it.

Why does it alter our personality? Well because our personalities are a build up of past. Our characters remain the same but our personality changes. So with any alteration to the brain or will of course alter your state of consciousness. But that’s irrelevant because what I’m proposing is that you are consciousness itself. An invisible yet undeniable form of life in existence. This same consciousness is with you from the womb to now. It is living which has shaped your personality not life itself. So you consciousness does go on it’s what are we conscious of? You see?

The reason it’s true is because your subconscious/unconcious mind is much quicker than you at figuring things out. What I’m saying is that deep down you have a knowledge of your immortality. It’s just forgotten.
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That's very funny. Of COURSE I can describe the color red it's 620–750 nanometers. If you grow why can't you?

Your story isn't provable and won't save you from Covid nor from possibly being the potential host that the next Variant of Concern arises from or you being the carrier for deadly disease that will end other's lives prematurely. Please get vaccinated. I want nothing to do with a fairytale that tells me I can blithely die from a communicable disease not caring about those I leave behind or killed.

If nothing else get vaccinated so that when you move into your eternal afterlife you don't have to go on an apology tour to everyone you maimed and killed with the disease.
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
cannabineer said:
The bolded highlights a mistake you are making.
Going by experience is subjective.
Using instruments yields objective information.
Without a shared objective basis, we are only talking about our feelings.
Click to expand...
Yup and these people elevate feelings above knowledge. They reject reality and build an alternate 'story' that preserves their feelings and is more palatable and easier. No need to have to do the hard math, chemistry and physics to learn science. You can just have nice thoughts and it will all turn out ok.

Don't fret we are all immortal consciousness that never dies and we continue on, LOL. It's the magical thinking of two year olds and primitive cultures. It's plague masks and smudging to prevent disease ::shudder::
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
The bolded highlights a mistake you are making.
Going by experience is subjective.
Using instruments yields objective information.
Without a shared objective basis, we are only talking about our feelings.
Click to expand...
True. But you are still not seeing the point I was making. The fact you need to experience it through your body or an instrument mankind has made to know if it’s warm of cold. Even looking at it is using your eyes which is part of your body.

Why belittle feelings? Isn’t that why do u anything? The feeling of hunger, sleep, poo etc etc. It’s all a feeling. It’s what gives life meaning. If you lose that feeling you become hard and cold. Life loses its vibrancy.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Nutty sKunK said:
True. But you are still not seeing the point I was making. The fact you need to experience it through your body or an instrument mankind has made to know if it’s warm of cold. Even looking at it is using your eyes which is part of your body.

Why belittle feelings? Isn’t that why do u anything? The feeling of hunger, sleep, poo etc etc. It’s all a feeling. It’s what gives life meaning. If you lose that feeling you become hard and cold. Life loses its vibrancy.
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Since I have no way of objectively engaging what you say, we remain at the unsatisfying place of describing feelings to each other. Things don’t get accomplished that way.
 
Nutty sKunK

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
curious2garden said:
That's very funny. Of COURSE I can describe the color red it's 620–750 nanometers. If you grow why can't you?

Your story isn't provable and won't save you from Covid nor from possibly being the potential host that the next Variant of Concern arises from or you being the carrier for deadly disease that will end other's lives prematurely. Please get vaccinated. I want nothing to do with a fairytale that tells me I can blithely die from a communicable disease not caring about those I leave behind or killed.

If nothing else get vaccinated so that when you move into your eternal afterlife you don't have to go on an apology tour to everyone you maimed and killed with the disease.
Click to expand...
Ermm.. I think again you missed the point. So if I’ve never seen a red object and you say it’s ‘620-750’ nanometers I know what you mean? Of course not. I need to experience it to know what it is. You see what I’m saying?

Why would I need to be saved? Haha

And why make me try feel guilty? You have your protection wonderful. I have my natural protection which is proven to be enough for the vast majority. Only the minority are dying with Covid here!

And pinning this whole potential for mutation on me solely is logical but highly improbable. It’ll more likely being a vaccinated person it’ll mutate in for there’s more of them.

There should be no sadness for no life is lost. Only the form that life once possessed.

I’d have to catch and spread the disease first. Maybe I’ll die on the spot so it doesn’t spread :)

All is well. You have your beliefs and I have mine.

Maybe we’ll meet up on the other side :D Either way, we’re both invited :) x
 
curious2garden

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
www.npr.org

CDC backs the rollout of COVID vaccine boosters from Moderna and J&J

CDC Director Rochelle Walensky also endorsed a mix-and-match approach to boosters that would be flexible for patients and health care providers.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

Boosters and mixing and matching. Essentially if you've had Moderna you're good. Pfizer is good too. But if you had J&J you should consider boosting with an mRNA vaccine and that applies to any age, 2 months post their J&J.
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