Cooltubes or open Reflectors ???

Papaoscartango

Active Member
Man.......ok so there's the rub. You will trade a high quality reflector & no glass partition for a cool tube that gets you as close as possible to the plant. If a cool tube reflector is aprox. 85% reflective = 10% loss + 10% for glass = 20% loss of light, based only on factory specs I might add.
How much light do we gain by moving closer? Someone pls feel free to correct my math, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Brick Top........you mad man........where are ya!

You've got some crackin equipment Chrono, I have a Lumatek balast also. I'd love to see ganj. pix. Also if you've got the coin why do you not use blue MH for veg. & am I waisting my time w/ my cool delux?
 

Brick Top

New Member
Man.......ok so there's the rub. You will trade a high quality reflector & no glass partition for a cool tube that gets you as close as possible to the plant. If a cool tube reflector is aprox. 85% reflective = 10% loss + 10% for glass = 20% loss of light, based only on factory specs I might add.
How much light do we gain by moving closer? Someone pls feel free to correct my math, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Brick Top........you mad man........where are ya!

You've got some crackin equipment Chrono, I have a Lumatek balast also. I'd love to see ganj. pix. Also if you've got the coin why do you not use blue MH for veg. & am I waisting my time w/ my cool delux?

You will only lose about 2% to 3% of light through a glass enclosed reflective hood or a Cool Tube but you will lose almost all UV-B rays. HPS doesn't out off UV-B rays so there really isn't a loss there and if you want UV-B rays, which are good, you add a light that puts out UV-B rays, like a light for reptiles in aquariums.

The question is if you lose as much as 10% reflectivity with the CoolTube reflector (the above estimated 85%) will you end up with more light, less light or roughly an equal amount of light by being able to have your light so much closer to your plant tops? You have to figure the Inverse Square Law; moving light farther away will greatly reduce the amount of energy being emitted and is reaching your plants. So having a light that is a foot or more higher might actually give your plants less light, at least to the lower portions of plants, especially if they are tall plants, even with a more reflective hood, especially if it is also glass enclosed.

Inverse Square Law, Light

As one of the fields which obey the general inverse square law, the light from a point source can be put in the form
where E is called illuminance and I is called pointance.
The source is described by a general "source strength" S because there are many ways to characterize a light source - by power in watts, power in the visible range, power factored by the eye's sensitivity, etc. For any such description of the source, if you have determined the amount of light per unit area reaching 1 meter, then it will be one fourth as much at 2 meters.
 

Brick Top

New Member
If you can find an old out of production Pyrex round loaf bread baking 'pan' you can make your own CoolTube. Now and then you can find them for sale on Ebay.

The difference in the design below and what I would do is I would not use the material they use in the design below for a reflector and instead purchase a good reflective hood where the tube and cooling lines would fit into/through.


Configuration
This type of fixture is very versatile. There are many different ways it can be configured:

*hanging or mounted on a chamber wall
*open-ended drawing air from the grow or ducted to a separate intake
*passively or actively cooled

Tools Needed:
*Power drill with 1/8" or 3/16" drill bit
*4.25" hole saw
*pop rivet gun (optional)
*flat head and Phillips head screw drivers


Materials:
Keep in mind that the full list of materials you will need depends on the type of glass you get and the configuration you're looking to build. Here's the materials list with some pictures and approximate pricing:

· $3.99-- Glass, either 4" Pyrex tube (approx. 12" long, 4” diameter) or "hurricane" lamp glass ($3.99 at Hobby Lobby, is 11 3/4" long and 4 5/8")
· $2.99-- 4" H/C venting starter collar
· $4.50-- 5" to 4" venting pipe reducer (for use with hurricane glass only)
· $3.00-7.00-- High-temp foil tape
· $5.00-- Thermal pipe wrap (looks like woven fiberglass tape with no adhesive)
· $8.00-- 4" aluminum "dryer" ducting (hanging configuration)
· $2.00-- 1/2 wood screws (box wall mount only)
· $3.00-- pop rivets or small sheet metal screws
· 4" (dryer ducting and/or Pyrex tube only) and/or 5" (hurricane glass only) hose clamps
· "S" hooks (for hanging)

a. Hurricane glass tube

When working with the hurricane glass "chimney," the irregular shape needs to be overcome so that it can be attached it to a reducer collar that will make up one end of the fixture. You may attach a reducer collar to a single end if you want an open ended design, or you can attach one to each end if you will be running ducting to both intake and exhaust ports.

The graphics concentrate on the exhaust end to which the bulb socket is also anchored. On this end of the glass (at the narrow "throat") numerous wraps of thermal pipe wrapping are wound around the glass and secured with a couple of wrappings of foil duct tape. The wrapping should build up the throat to the same diameter as the opening in the glass - where it snugly fits inside the larger end of the reducer.



This will allow us to use a 5" hose clamp to secure the edge of the reducer collar to this tape wrapped "cushion." (Note: you can use foil tape alone for building this "cushion" but the thermal wrapping makes for a neater seal, and is less susceptible to heat. Also, if a hose clamp isn't available, the reducer can be secured to the glass with foil tape.

If you use a hose clamp, you will need to make some 1" slits in the edge of the reducer collar the glass fits in to allow the hose clamp to compress it enough to hold the glass securely)

Mounting the socket inside the tube
In the graphic, a length of pipe strapping bent in a "U" shape is used to hold the socket far enough inside the glass to place the bulb roughly in the middle of the glass. This glass, $3.99 at Hobby Lobby, is 11 3/4" long and 4 5/8" at each end. Notice this glass is symmetrical. Don't try to use the asymmetrical hurricane lamp "chimney's" available at Lowe's or HD; they're too small and aren't shaped in a way that permits good air flow.

The socket is either screwed or pop riveted to the bottom of the pipe strap "U." My light was made from a 150w HPS security light which used a "medium" base socket; this socket has two little screws in it that more or less lined up with the holes in the strapping.

As for the mogul base sockets used with bigger lamps, I don't know what they have on the bottom of them so you may have to improvise a solution for mounting them. The ends of the strap are bent around to "clip" over the edge of the glass and then secured with a couple of wrappings of foil tape. If you'd like, a more permanent mount can be had by drilling a couple of small holes in the tapered throat of the reducer and attaching the ends of the strap with a couple of pop rivets.

Running the wires
The wires from the socket can be either run through your 4" ducting which will attach to the other end of the reducer or you can drill a hole in the tapered part of the reducer to run the wire out of the fixture to the ballast.

Here's how I actually have it done in my box. There's no venting, it just mounts to a 4.25" hole in the side of my flowering chamber via a starter collar which fits snugly inside the 4" side of the reducer collar. I've got them held together with four pop rivets for a permanent connection. The tabbed end of the starter collar fits into the hole where the tabs are bent around the edge of the hole and anchored with wood screw to the box wall. (In my box, on the other side of this wall is my utility room with a 4" 115cfm computer case fan sucking out the back of it.)

One could just as easily connect another reducer collar onto the other end of the glass exactly as the first side was with "S" hooks for hanging from above. This fixture could then have both intake and exhaust from outside the box.

Originally this is what I would have preferred to have, but as my flowering chamber is only 2'Dx2'Wx3'H, the wall mount actually did better for me.

johnstone- Hurricane tube NIMBY - Baking tube
b. Pyrex baking tube

(NIMBY) "Using a Pyrex (borosilicate glass) tube obtained from a glass blowing supply house or using a "Bake a Round" (eBay had a dozen for sale the last time I checked) one utilizes either one or two (pictured) 4" starter collars instead of the 5" to 4" reducer collars. They are 14" long and 3.75" in diameter."



"I stretched the aluminum ducting out and measured 16". I then snipped the metal "ribs" and cut the ducting open. The glass tube will now just drop into the long run of ducting. The electrial wires run to the remote ballast through the intake part of the duct (exhaust could also be used depending upon the location of the ballast). I measured 2" from each side of my original cut and snipped the metal ribs again but this time didn't cut the aluminum foil. This allows me to open the ducting up like a "wing"."



A couple of wraps of pipe wrap sealed with foil tape on each end you want to put a collar on should be used to keep from biting the metal directly into glass with the hose clamp (pictured). The socket is mounted inside the tube with pipe strapping just as in the hurricane style fixture. It can either be "clipped" and taped over the edge of the glass or better, pop riveted to the inside of the starter collar.

Simply stick the glass inside the end of the starter collar an inch or so past the bottom of the tabs to measure how far in to drill two holes 180 degrees apart, then use two pop rivets to attach the strapping

A note about pipe strapping: don't get the thin wimpy stuff. Get the thicker heavy-duty strapping. The heavy stuff is still relatively easy to bend but holds it's shape better and will hold the bulb and socket straight without sagging. At Home Depot they even have some copper pipe strapping (also known as “pipe tape" or “pipe hanger”) that is quite stiff.

Ventilation Performance
There are many different ventilation options available, since standard household ducting is used in the construction of the fixture. For those folks with bigger boxes or rooms, ducting in and out, "inline" duct fans are probably the best option.

For my little NewGanjaBoy-style setup, using the Hurricane fixture as part of the ventilation system of my box, a 115cfm computer fan does the trick. As for actual performance specs for different blowers/fans and light wattages, I'm afraid you'll have to experiment. Here's mine just to give an example:

Box:
-NewGanjaBoy-style three chambered box
-4 20w flouros in the mother chamber
-150w security HPS in the flowering chamber in original metal fixture with holes drilled in the top

Ventilation before Cool Tube installed:
-115cfm fan exhausting box
-4"x8" intake port in the bottom of the veg chamber
-Two 2' runs of 1.5" PVC pulling air through the wall between veg and flowering chambers
-Two 1' runs of 1.5" PVC pulling air from over the HPS fixture into the utility room where it's exhausting out the back.

Ventilation after Cool Tube installed:
-Two PVC runs between flowering chamber and utility room replaced with Hurricane Cool tube fixture
-ballast moved to utility room and housed in the original security light casing
-everything else is the same

Temps before Cool Tube mod:
Ambient temp: 80°F
Flowering chamber 1 hour after HPS fires up: 95°F (in direct light)
Flowering chamber 6-12 hours after HPS fires up: 100-105+°F (ouch!!)

Temps after Cool Tube Mod:
Ambient temp: 80°F
Flowering chamber 1 hour after HPS fires up: 85°F (in direct light)
Flowering chamber 6-12 hours after HPS fires up: 90°F (in direct light)

SAFETY NOTICE:
Please note that the wire to the bulb base must be a high temp fiberglass type, or the heat will eat up the wire and cause a running short. The thermal tape is a fiberglass electrical tape from most hardware stores. High temp fiberglass wrapped wire is available at any hardware or electrical store. It is imperative that you use it, as a smoking ballast is a real bummer to relight.
 

Papaoscartango

Active Member
Well needless to say I just got back from moving my lights down. Cool Tube stock is on an upward trend! Thx all.....it's been a hoot & solid thread Chrono.
 

chrono

Active Member
Man.......ok so there's the rub. You will trade a high quality reflector & no glass partition for a cool tube that gets you as close as possible to the plant. If a cool tube reflector is aprox. 85% reflective = 10% loss + 10% for glass = 20% loss of light, based only on factory specs I might add.
How much light do we gain by moving closer? Someone pls feel free to correct my math, I'm just thinking out loud here.
Brick Top........you mad man........where are ya!

You've got some crackin equipment Chrono, I have a Lumatek balast also. I'd love to see ganj. pix. Also if you've got the coin why do you not use blue MH for veg. & am I waisting my time w/ my cool delux?
Thanks for the nice comments man, I will be purchasing a new camera within next few weeks, i will get some pics up for you real soon, i run 2 x 600w hps with lumatek ballasts, lucagrow lamps, large adjust-a-wing reflectors, 2 x 400w MH with magnetic JB Ballasts, sylvania supergro lamps in round reflectors for veg.
 

Oldreefer

Well-Known Member
Thank you for the info, that helps, can i clarify that inside the tent, your not using any ventilation, only venting the cooltube, and do youhave a fan inside the tent, could you elaborate a little more please.
My fans are ouside the tent but ducted....one to pull through a CC and cooltube...the other ducted to blow fresh air into the tent. I usually have the fan speeds at about 1/3- 1/2 ....maintains a great 75-80 at the canopy.....
 

chrono

Active Member
Thanks to all who have replied, All the information and advice has been taken on board, when finances allow i will be investing in some cool tubes for my hps lamps, cant argue with maths, science and other peoples personal experience, So again, thank you. Keep it green.
 

Brick Top

New Member
the other ducted to blow fresh air into the tent.

Do you use a carbon filter or have any odor concerns? Negative pressure is better in those cases, sucking air out of a room or tent rather than blowing it in. If there are any leaks the odor is still sucked out of the room or tent rather than blown/forced out of it through the leaks.
 
The point made by Brick Top is extremely valid, and as far as it goes for what your choosing to run as its efficiently as possible will really be determined by what your doing? EX: Size of the space L x W x H, what size light? Are you running CO2? What is the strain or do you mix them?

With that info you can pretty much determine what will be best for you personally because since all those things change from person to person what you would choose for your setup should change also.

just my two cents

hhmmm, Solid point made by Brick Top, im just thinking if i change to cooltubes, ill have to run 2 sets of ventilation, 1 for internal tent, plus the lights, i mean, i wouldnt need intense ventilation for the internal as the cooltubes ventilation itself would keep internal temp low and stable while lights on, but its another cost and db's adding to the system. Im still not convinced cooltubes are much of a benefit yield wise or efficiency wise.
Thanks to all that have replied to date, appreciate your views and opinions.
 

legallyflying

Well-Known Member
my 2 cents from quickly going through this thread. FYI I use co2 in a sealed enviro.

Back to basics folks.. you want you room at around 75-80 degrees, so how are you going to do that? by heating it at night and cooling it during the day.

Vented hoods or a cool tube is ESSENTIAL ..UNLESS you have a constant supply of fresh cool air or a big air conditioner to keep temps down. You will have to get the heat out of the room one way or another, its that simply.

There is like 3% loss of infra-red light from the glass. My take, big fucking deal, my hoods are 12" from the plant. Having them 18" above the plant if they were not vented would cause about a 30% loss in all light spectrums.

other answers to questions that were not answered. ..

You can effectively cool your hoods, even if the air temp your pulling through them is 80-90 degrees. The air has to be cooler than the BULB for cooling to be effective. and unless your hood intake is located in an oven, your intake air is not going to be 400 degrees.

No, you can't use a pc fan to cool your hood, come on man, use your freaking head. You need a proper in-line fan, not some freaking toy.

You generally can NOT intake winter time air and pull it through your hoods. It will make it rain in your room from all the condensation on the pipes and hoods. Trust me, I thought I was sooooo slick doing this till I came in my room after the first cold night (40 F) and there were puddles on the floor and puddles INSIDE my hood.

sealed hoods allow you to cool your room without worrying about smell (if your intake is located outside the room)
You always pull air through your hood, you never push it through. That way you don't push heat out of the little openings in the hood.

batwing reflectors suck balls. You are loosing a metric shit ton of light that is spewing out sideways. That light would be reflected downward if it as in a proper hood.

Light spillage is HUGE and you would be amazed at how much difference a little reflection makes. I have a sheet of mylar that hangs down right next to my table to bounce light back to the pants. with the hood 14" above the plants I get 64,000 lux at the plant with the film and 45,000 without it. That's like 2,000 lumens just by preventing light spillage, multiply that by allot, and that is what your batwing is loosing.

Chrono, buy a cheap light meter on ebay ($40) then buy a hood you can return from the hydro store and record the difference between your batwing and the hood. CL add next day.. For sale, cheap: two batwing reflectors :) ;)
 

john7075

Member
I use cooltubes in a vertical setup... leaves are just a couple inches from them and no burn. One was touching glass and did slightly burn, so moved it 2" away and is OK
 

chrono

Active Member
Guys, this is my current setup, i run a DR240w Tent, i have 2 x 600w hps lamps running lucagrow lamps in large adjust-a-wing reflectors, i then have 2 x 400w metal halide lamps running sylvania supergro lamps with JB Magnetic ballasts for vegging, i have 2 x 150mm eziAir Fanmaster 2 centrifigal fans, 1 x eziAir 150mm inline fan, 150mm ducting, i have previously done a flood & drain table, im now doing a top feed to recycle kit, 8 buckets, im drawing fresh outside air into tent via 150mm inline idling at super low speed, exhaust is centrifigal idling at 1/4 speed. I use Canna nutes, i have thermometer & humidty sensor in tent as well as res, i use a truncheon for nute readings and a PH Pen.
The reason why im looking at this is to maximise the setup even further, i have had good solid results from the current setup, however, im always trying to improve things, thus why i decided to ask this question.

Thanks legallyflying for your info man, its appreciated.

basically the short of this thread is if i change to cooltubes i should see benefits and some slight increases, i swore at the start i wouldnt change, however, after everyones input, information and experience, i see that there is a benefit to change.
 
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