constructing new room, short deadline. need advice

thenasty1

thenasty1

Well-Known Member
here are the basics- what i know so far, and what i want to build. i am an experienced cultivator, but i have never built a room of my own before. i will be relocating soon, and i need to have my room designed and ready for construction as soon as possible. i know what i want and most of what i need to make it happen, but i need some advice from folks more experienced than myself.

what i know so far:
room will be in basement, ~9 ft ceiling (new house, dont have exact measurements of room, fairly large though)
4 gavita 1000s (remote ballast style, ballasts outside room)
all hydro- starting with dwc in ~27 gal insulated tough bins, building up to undercurrent or ss1 style rail system
floors and walls will be epoxy coated and white in color
have an electrician and licensed builder on standby
c02 burner or tanks w/regulators will be installed, preferably a burner
budget is ~10k

what i need to know:
will a 3 ton mini split be sufficient to keep everything at appropriate temps? i am familiar with running gavitas (been using 2 1000's for ~4 yrs), i know they get hot as hell. i need my a/c to be able to handle keeping my reservoirs cool as well, and i intend to run a c02 burner on top of all of that. i can get a 4 ton if necessary, but id rather not spend the extra cash if its not. also, what brands/suppliers of a/c should i be looking at? how much does it cost to get the a/c professionally installed?
should i seal the room or run an air exchange? does either have advantages or disadvantages in terms of odor control? does a floor drain compromise the sealing effect? (now that i type this it sounds like a dumb question, but im going to leave it just in case)
the basement has a bare ceiling (boards, not drywall or anything). should i cover it with anything? the gavitas will be hung very close to the ceiling (obviously theyll have to be) so if it should be covered, what material should i use that wont melt from the heat?
stealth will be a concern. i am legal and whatnot, but i still prioritize discretion. my neighbors will be pretty close. what measures can i take to ensure that my garden remains a secret? any odor or noise control tips? general advice on maintaining a secure, inconspicuous facility? i have never had any problems in that respect with my last grow, but i want to make sure i have all my bases covered.
and lastly, any other input you may have that you think is relevant to someone in my shoes is greatly appreciated.

i apologize in advance if i have not provided sufficient information, or if i seem a bit scatterbrained. for the past 6 years or so i have worked with a partner that handled all the technical stuff while i handled all the plant stuff, so i am not as knowledgeable about room construction as i should be. this move is happening very suddenly and very quickly. i have a lot of shit to figure out in a short time frame, but this will be a huge opportunity if i can pull this off. and my first instinct (after many hours of research and vigorous googling of course) is to check with folks on riu. this forum is largely responsible for my success as a grower- just about any time i have ever needed to know anything about growing, riu has been there for me. so thanks for that first and foremost, and thanks in advance for your input on my issues.
 
C

clayawesome

Well-Known Member
I am starting a similar room. my personal first room with DE bulbs after years with 1000w air cooled hoods. My info on DEs comes mostly from friends who have been using for years yelling at me for not switching so hopefully i can help some.
According to Gavita, u need only 4,000 btus cooling per light. http://www.gavita-holland.com/helpdesk/knowledgebase.php?article=18
I am installing a 27,000 btu mini split for a 4 light sealed room with co2 burner. using the Phantom DE commercial package with open reflector thats supposed to be made for lower ceilings (maybe look into them). mine are 8 feet.
for the ac install: I hang the head unit, set the condenser and connect them with the copper lines. i also do the electrical. your electrician and builer can do those parts if ur not comfortable. My HVAC guy finishes the install for $100 as long as he doesnt have to fix any connections ect. he can finish it all from outside the house at the condenser.
i buy the units from either lowes, home depot, or the local hydro store. own several brands aura, amvent, mitsubishi, lg. all work good. pricier ones are generally more sleek looking and quieter.
i like to seal the room and run a co2 burner. this helps eliminate smell some because there is no exhaust blasting smelly air. a charcoal filter and fan recirculating air inside the room also helps with smell. a floor drain with a P trap (standard) forms an air seal and will not compromise ur seal. however you will have to cover the ceiling with something to form ur seal. i like drywall, it's fire rated. you will also need a big dehumidifier for a sealed room. hope that helps
 
thenasty1

thenasty1

Well-Known Member
thanks, i appreciate your advice. i will probably stick with a 3 ton a/c, and im thinking a 70 pint dehumidifier that drains into a sink or something so i wont have to worry about it filling up. can you ballpark the cost of the work to drywall the ceiling? will i need to insulate as well? or can i just mount the drywall pieces directly to the ceiling and caulk them or something?
 
justugh

justugh

Well-Known Member
thenasty1 said:
here are the basics- what i know so far, and what i want to build. i am an experienced cultivator, but i have never built a room of my own before. i will be relocating soon, and i need to have my room designed and ready for construction as soon as possible. i know what i want and most of what i need to make it happen, but i need some advice from folks more experienced than myself.

what i know so far:
room will be in basement, ~9 ft ceiling (new house, dont have exact measurements of room, fairly large though)
4 gavita 1000s (remote ballast style, ballasts outside room)
all hydro- starting with dwc in ~27 gal insulated tough bins, building up to undercurrent or ss1 style rail system
floors and walls will be epoxy coated and white in color
have an electrician and licensed builder on standby
c02 burner or tanks w/regulators will be installed, preferably a burner
budget is ~10k

what i need to know:
will a 3 ton mini split be sufficient to keep everything at appropriate temps? i am familiar with running gavitas (been using 2 1000's for ~4 yrs), i know they get hot as hell. i need my a/c to be able to handle keeping my reservoirs cool as well, and i intend to run a c02 burner on top of all of that. i can get a 4 ton if necessary, but id rather not spend the extra cash if its not. also, what brands/suppliers of a/c should i be looking at? how much does it cost to get the a/c professionally installed?
should i seal the room or run an air exchange? does either have advantages or disadvantages in terms of odor control? does a floor drain compromise the sealing effect? (now that i type this it sounds like a dumb question, but im going to leave it just in case)
the basement has a bare ceiling (boards, not drywall or anything). should i cover it with anything? the gavitas will be hung very close to the ceiling (obviously theyll have to be) so if it should be covered, what material should i use that wont melt from the heat?
stealth will be a concern. i am legal and whatnot, but i still prioritize discretion. my neighbors will be pretty close. what measures can i take to ensure that my garden remains a secret? any odor or noise control tips? general advice on maintaining a secure, inconspicuous facility? i have never had any problems in that respect with my last grow, but i want to make sure i have all my bases covered.
and lastly, any other input you may have that you think is relevant to someone in my shoes is greatly appreciated.

i apologize in advance if i have not provided sufficient information, or if i seem a bit scatterbrained. for the past 6 years or so i have worked with a partner that handled all the technical stuff while i handled all the plant stuff, so i am not as knowledgeable about room construction as i should be. this move is happening very suddenly and very quickly. i have a lot of shit to figure out in a short time frame, but this will be a huge opportunity if i can pull this off. and my first instinct (after many hours of research and vigorous googling of course) is to check with folks on riu. this forum is largely responsible for my success as a grower- just about any time i have ever needed to know anything about growing, riu has been there for me. so thanks for that first and foremost, and thanks in advance for your input on my issues.
Click to expand...
ohh fun .......sealed room
basement is good make sure it is finished (u might want to put the dry wall up in there yourself that way before u can wrap the walls in a polywrap 6 mil thick it will help seal the room .....use some caulking where u nail ) ..........as for your ceiling get some IR blocker and line the ceiling with it ...try not to pop or rip it the mylar and air bubble is what makes it work(u can line the walls too if u are high out of the ground this will make u invisible plus make the room shine and reflective ).......the heat build up/ retention is going to be high so a 2 ton would be smart (if the room is larger then a 12x12 3 ton might be the better choice )

now just to talk Breakers ........your going to need at least 6 breakers wired to that room 20 amp 110v
4 for the lights
1 for fans and support gear ( Co2 senors controller burner water pumps air pumps )
1 for the Mini Split ( double check 3ton amp drawl might be more)

ok Co2 i been looking i found a nice system i like ........if u apply it to this u will need a strong water pump a 55 gallon water barrel (this is water cooled to keep the heat build up to minimal) they have a second addon for the top remove the last of the heat they claim....http://www.amazon.com/HydroGen-Water-Cooled-CO2-Generator-Valve/dp/B002B8WBNI

now the Door way is your main trouble as far as Co2 leaking u can use a system ....the ploy wrap u used before is sealing the walls ....so not u can do 1 of 3 things
1 u can use some more polywrap/zipper kit and seal the door off
2 u can use some of the poly wrap around the door forming a high tub like thing just has to be higher then bud/flowering lvl and the senor there
3 maintain negative pressure (keeping a fan removing the upper lvl air the door would block most of it and the drawl in would keep the co2 from rolling out)

the Mini spilt is not removing any air it only passing the air inside over a cooling/heating coil so it is not going to maintain negative pressure just cause the air to swirl around (it is going to inject the air back into the co2 making it roll around so your propane might be high with the senor getting hit with oxygen from the upper lvl now and then)

the mini split and Co2 gen work great together keeps the area happy .......to keep the negative pressure just use a fan with a carbon scrubber 4 inch 170 cfm will do u

your light choice is a great one but the heat it makes ........u should be more then ok with 9 foot ceiling 2 feet away from the ceiling ....ir blocker will hide the heat signal from flair cameras
u might think LED it has a lower heat production so the AC does not need to be as strong or run as hard .....plus the power drawl and amps are lower so could run 2 lights on a 15 amp breaker
http://www.ledzeal.com/p44.html
that is the marker talk to them and they will give u a great deal on the lights compared to what sells in the retail shops .........the info about the light is there on the page ......oh the info is in meters not feet so have to do some converting
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
thenasty1 said:
thanks, i appreciate your advice. i will probably stick with a 3 ton a/c, and im thinking a 70 pint dehumidifier that drains into a sink or something so i wont have to worry about it filling up. can you ballpark the cost of the work to drywall the ceiling? will i need to insulate as well? or can i just mount the drywall pieces directly to the ceiling and caulk them or something?
Click to expand...
In one of my sealed rooms,I have 3tons combating 6 DE's running at 1150w's each.
I usually have always gone by the rule: 4k btu of AC per 1000w of aircooled light, and 6k btu per 1000w of barebulb light. This figures in the heat from ballasts in room, dehu's, and co2 generator/s.
This 6 - DE light room was re-worked from 8 - aircooled 1000w single mogul hps's. Same Ac, along with everything else that the 8 air-cooled light room had, and it still works great. Even with this major heat wave we just had in Norcal here.
2ton Ac will do 4 DE's running at max 1150w's each.
 
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thenasty1

thenasty1

Well-Known Member
many thanks, keep the ideas coming.
aero, you say you keep things proper in your setup with a 2 ton a/c? are you in dirt or hydro?
justugh, that bit about the roofing materials and advice on room sealing is awesome. this is the kind of stuff i need to know. i have been screwed by led in the past though, and im stuck on the gavita because theyve worked so well for me in my current (soon to be previous) grow. im sure led has come a long way in the 4 or so years its been since i bought one, but i cant afford to chance it right now.
 
Aeroknow

Aeroknow

Well-Known Member
thenasty1 said:
many thanks, keep the ideas coming.
aero, you say you keep things proper in your setup with a 2 ton a/c? are you in dirt or hydro?
justugh, that bit about the roofing materials and advice on room sealing is awesome. this is the kind of stuff i need to know. i have been screwed by led in the past though, and im stuck on the gavita because theyve worked so well for me in my current (soon to be previous) grow. im sure led has come a long way in the 4 or so years its been since i bought one, but i cant afford to chance it right now.
Click to expand...
If I had 4-1000w De's running at max(1150w), I would be very confident with a 2 ton AC in a sealed growroom;-) dirt or hydro.
 
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