Coco VS soil. Same strain. Planted at the same time. Unreal

thisbuds4u101

Well-Known Member
Yes I have but I personally found the downside of synthetic is to many possible complications vs organic. With organic your feeding the soil with synthetic your feeding the plant which works well if you know what your doing. With me it’s all about knowing what’s in my feed and what I can do to make my plant the best it can be. Happy plant Happy grower.
 

Kushash

Well-Known Member
In the culinary world the hydro guys would be the bakers, and the soil guys the chefs.
I’m a chef.
I think of it as the hydro growers are scientists and the organic growers are artists.
On the other post above this one "not sure growing in bagged soil is true soil growing"
IMO, ffof is loaded with food to feed the microbes, if a grower continues to feed the microbes with organic dry amendments when needed till harvest then I would call that an organic soil grow.
 

speedwell68

Well-Known Member
What ultimately sold you on soil vs coco? I'd love to run a couple soil plants just to compare the flavor and overall quality. It's been at least 5+ years since I've grown in soil but I remember every harvest was flavorful, potent, smooth, and burned clean. It seems like I have had to work harder to obtain a similar flavor profile in hydro. I'm not particularly married to hydro or any particular medium but I have preferences for certain reasons. It's hard to haul dirt in and out with my bad back. Coco bricks (or perlite) don't weigh much and are easy to work with so it's easy on the back. I haven't given up on my soil experiment though so next cycle I'm running 2 plants in ocean forest in 5 gallon buckets. I'll run 2 of the same strains in coco hempy's and see what the flavor, smoothness, and overall quality differences are.


I wholeheartedly agree. Going from soil to #4 perlite hempy's I can definitely say the flavor is not as remarkable as my old soil plants grown in ocean forest. I wasn't growing organically or anything. I ran the GH flora trio but the fertilizer input was very minimal. I fed on a water, water, feed, water, water, feed schedule. The plants really only got fertilizer once every 8-9 days. I think the very low fertilizer input over the course of the entire grow cycle contributed significantly to the flavor variation. Strangely enough I've ran some high potency strains like gg4 and ghost train haze in the perlite hempy's that tasted and burned exactly like my old soil plants whereas another strain in the same crop did not have the same qualities.

What medium are you growing in? How's the flavor / burn?


Both grown from seed. I hard 2 more but they were sacrificed to spider mites before I got the situation under control along with all 6 of my gg4's. That shit hurt.
Firstly coco isn't really very environmentally sound. It has to be shipped in from god knows where. It is very expensive and I can't buy it locally, I have to have it shipped in. Then there is all that faff with PH, EC and PPM. Soil I can just mix it up and I am good to go, I can get 6 weeks of just watering them before I have to look at nutrients. Because my soil mix is fairly spot on I can get away with using a simple seaweed based tomato feed and Epsom Salts, it has everything thing I need and is super cheap. I also add a touch of Mycorrhizal compound when I pot them up from the small pots of potting compost I start them in.

I grow in a mix of locally sourced compost, perlite and rotted manure. It is super cheap, works really well and I can recycle it by either digging it into our flower and veg garden or putting it in my garden recycling bin. I can get 150L of compost and 50L of manure for the price of 50L of coco before shipping.

The flavour of my weed is great, I have just compared it to some of the local street weed a friend has and the difference is like night and day. Mine smells and tastes fruity and very is very smooth. This street weed smelt of nothing.

I am working my way towards a fully organic solution using dry amendments, but refuse to pay the prices that brands like Gaia Green and Living Soils charge, so I am slowly doing my own research into what I need to do to make that happen.

TBH now I have type all of that out I realise that coco is probably easier in the long run, as if you have your PH/EC sorted it really is just feed and go
 

speedwell68

Well-Known Member
Never have to mess with PH, PPM or EC in soil. That’s the testing part.
Which means you are always monitoring those things, and adjusting if necessary.
I’m not sure growing in bagged soil is true soil growing either. It’s practically hydro once the charge is spent.
A true composted and amended soil is the easiest way to grow. Which is what I’ve done outdoors for many years.
Since I’ve been growing inside I’ve leaned towards the bagged soil for ease, since no grow nutes needed for veg, and only one part bloom nutes from week 4 until harvest. No reservoirs. No schedules. To me that’s as easy as it gets.
That is where I am at the moment. I find it easy. At the moment I am just using a Liquid Seaweed tomato feed once flowering starts, super easy.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
Never have to mess with PH, PPM or EC in soil. That’s the testing part.
Which means you are always monitoring those things, and adjusting if necessary.
I’m not sure growing in bagged soil is true soil growing either. It’s practically hydro once the charge is spent.
A true composted and amended soil is the easiest way to grow. Which is what I’ve done outdoors for many years.
Since I’ve been growing inside I’ve leaned towards the bagged soil for ease, since no grow nutes needed for veg, and only one part bloom nutes from week 4 until harvest. No reservoirs. No schedules. To me that’s as easy as it gets.
Why not just use compost during bloom? Easier than bottled, just apply a good heap on top of the soil, and water in.
 

Milky Weed

Well-Known Member
The only real difference I see between Soil vs Soiless media is the amount of water one or the other can hold. Soiless media can hold up to double or triple the water than some of the more loaded no till media setups. The benefit to no till is well… using plain water! In the end it always comes down to preference.
 
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Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
It's really hauling the dirt in and out that's a problem for me. It's also messier and the wife bitches enough as it is. I definitely don't use synthetics out of some philosophical belief system. It's just easier, cleaner, and don't break my back. I'm looking forward to seeing how my next 2 soil plants finish up. I've got a white widow and a strawberry cough going now. I was thinking of putting that SC in coco, but I'd like to see how she does start to finish in soil. If the flavor and quality is substantially different I may have to rethink my desire to learn how to garden organically.
Run no till. You only have to bring soil in once.
 

speedwell68

Well-Known Member
I have no idea what was used under the catch all term "soil", what did it contain?
Fox farm ocean forest

Were the plants from seed or cloned?
Seeds

I notice that the plants are in different sized pots, this also makes the outcome moot.
This has been covered multiple times in this thread for people with reading comprehension issues. I'm not even correcting people anymore.
The catch all term soil. You North Americans have a funny way of using English. If you went into a shop in the UK and asked for soil, they would try and sell you Top Soil or Loam. What you call soil, isn't soil it is a blended compost. So you have used an off the shelf soil mix, or compost. So what your experiment has shown is you can get better results using coco and your chosen nutrient line, than you can with a proprietary blended compost. You have not proven that coco is better than all soils, like you have suggested.

If they were grown from seed then the plants are not genetically identical and any results from your experiment are moot, because the differences could be genetic. Two seeds of the same strain are not genetically identical, in the same way you are not genetically identical to any of your siblings.

Yes I know what you have explained and your failure to pot up the smaller plant has rendered any findings moot. In a side by side experiment like this you must keep the playing field level, i.e What you do to one, you must do to the other. If you don't you are just pissing in the wind if you expect your findings to be worth a damn.

You also have no control plant. Your findings as a assumption, based on the facts at hand. As the old saying goes "If you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME".
 

ogc710

Member
Right..? Grow log? he just says Soil vs Coco, as if all soils are even remotely equal....which soil? Organic? Fertilized? Super soil? bag? what ph was the soil set at? Did you add water at the proper ph to match the substrate? No Air pots? Fabric? Idk OP I feel like you're going to get pummeled here....This is your post in a nutshell..... Hey... this apple is better than this orange, Well hmmm.....what kind of orange, your readers ask? No you dont get those details... you must trust Im a capable soil grower....and my choice of soil/Mycos/perlites/amendments....my feeding schedule...my ability to maintain the eco system, my watering, my ability to know the limits of how close I can have the light to the organic substrate, my choice of light and darkness schedule.. I mean Coco is NO WHERE NEAR soil as far as watering schedules..., coco coir is used for water retention, why compare it with soil? watering the same? Because that says alot about your watering knowledge.......(also if you have baby dick roots in a legit organic soil grow with a proper eco system......I cant attest to the fact you dont know what you're doing) and Im not saying one is better than the other, as I dont think that can be proven, its personal choice, coco needs to be watered a lot more......And some people prefer its retention properties and ive seen SUPER nice coco grows......But on the flip side..... I could show you pictures from overgrow.net from 2001 all organic soil grows that SLAP anything you've ever grown....in any substrate... does that mean soils better? no....so whats the point of premising like this? to start arguments? A simple, declaration of hey, i prefer this over this and heres my testing... instead.. its just insulting to anyone who choices soil grow, as someone who is choosing an inferior method...Then the first person that asks an obvious question....you call a cupcake...and insult them....just...doesn't seem legit.
agree!if just say amount. coco will win ! but it works hard . good soil can grow quick and strong
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Interesting that it Varys strain to strain.

I grow in organic soil with organic liquid feeds. Can smoke a bud 3 days after coming off the plant and it won’t be harsh.

I’m tempted to try a coco solo with salt based feeds to see if there is any difference. But I’m more than happy with my results in soil so why bother? :)
Firstly coco isn't really very environmentally sound. It has to be shipped in from god knows where. It is very expensive and I can't buy it locally, I have to have it shipped in. Then there is all that faff with PH, EC and PPM. Soil I can just mix it up and I am good to go, I can get 6 weeks of just watering them before I have to look at nutrients. Because my soil mix is fairly spot on I can get away with using a simple seaweed based tomato feed and Epsom Salts, it has everything thing I need and is super cheap. I also add a touch of Mycorrhizal compound when I pot them up from the small pots of potting compost I start them in.

I grow in a mix of locally sourced compost, perlite and rotted manure. It is super cheap, works really well and I can recycle it by either digging it into our flower and veg garden or putting it in my garden recycling bin. I can get 150L of compost and 50L of manure for the price of 50L of coco before shipping.

The flavour of my weed is great, I have just compared it to some of the local street weed a friend has and the difference is like night and day. Mine smells and tastes fruity and very is very smooth. This street weed smelt of nothing.

I am working my way towards a fully organic solution using dry amendments, but refuse to pay the prices that brands like Gaia Green and Living Soils charge, so I am slowly doing my own research into what I need to do to make that happen.

TBH now I have type all of that out I realise that coco is probably easier in the long run, as if you have your PH/EC sorted it really is just feed and go
The flavour of my weed is great, I have just compared it to some of the local street weed a friend has and the difference is like night and day. Mine smells and tastes fruity and very is very smooth. This street weed smelt of nothing.

Fucker. Now you've got me itching for some of that delicious soil flavor I miss dearly :) Hydro grows pot that gets ya plenty stoned, but it's missing the essence that soil provides. Hydro grown bud rarely leaves a thick pungent flavor on the pallet like a funky soil bud does. Brix is another topic that's interesting to discuss when comparing hydro to soil. Hydro grown plants can not produce the high brix levels that are present in soil grown plants. I think this has a considerable impact on flavor and smoothness.

Soil grown plants also require a great deal less fertilizer and the soil itself acts as a buffer. I think this also contributes greatly to the superior flavor present observed in soil grown plants. My hydro plant's roots are saturated in a 1.6 ec solution 24/7, whereas my soil grown plants only get fertilizer once per week. That's a substantial difference in elemental uptake. Soil gets the job done with far less fertilizer.

I think everyone is familiar with the experience of smoking an over fertilized flower from a hydro plant. Lungs schorched hacking up phlegm with a horrible taste. There's definitely a flavor left on the pallet. And it's not good :)

Both methods of growing have their pros and cons. Soil requires a longer veg time due to slower growth but it also produces the best quality product in the end.

The catch all term soil. You North Americans have a funny way of using English. If you went into a shop in the UK and asked for soil, they would try and sell you Top Soil or Loam. What you call soil, isn't soil it is a blended compost. So you have used an off the shelf soil mix, or compost. So what your experiment has shown is you can get better results using coco and your chosen nutrient line, than you can with a proprietary blended compost. You have not proven that coco is better than all soils, like you have suggested.

If they were grown from seed then the plants are not genetically identical and any results from your experiment are moot, because the differences could be genetic. Two seeds of the same strain are not genetically identical, in the same way you are not genetically identical to any of your siblings.

Yes I know what you have explained and your failure to pot up the smaller plant has rendered any findings moot. In a side by side experiment like this you must keep the playing field level, i.e What you do to one, you must do to the other. If you don't you are just pissing in the wind if you expect your findings to be worth a damn.

You also have no control plant. Your findings as a assumption, based on the facts at hand. As the old saying goes "If you assume, you make an ASS out of U and ME".
You shouldn't get so emotional over someone else's observation described in someone else's garden about growing mediums. Something tells me you're that person most people avoid any time religion or politics comes up. Chillax homie. It's gonna be okay.
 

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
If you wanna grow big and fast in soil, use a sip. Run it no till. It's, so far, the best compromise I've found between organic soil grown, and hydro. Just my opinion though. :bigjoint:
That no till sounds pretty dope. It still bends my mind sideways how those gardeners make it all work. It's quite impressive. And I like the idea of reusing the soil. I even heard guys that just cut the stalk at the base and replant without pulling the old root system. Apparently the plant utilizes those old root systems. I thought that was some dam cool shit.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
That no till sounds pretty dope. It still bends my mind sideways how those gardeners make it all work. It's quite impressive. And I like the idea of reusing the soil. I even heard guys that just cut the stalk at the base and replant without pulling the old root system. Apparently the plant utilizes those old root systems. I thought that was some dam cool shit.
Screenshot_20211027-210100_Gallery.jpg
It sure is! Lol
 

RobCat

Well-Known Member
Yes I have but I personally found the downside of synthetic is to many possible complications vs organic. With organic your feeding the soil with synthetic your feeding the plant which works well if you know what your doing. With me it’s all about knowing what’s in my feed and what I can do to make my plant the best it can be. Happy plant Happy grower.
I just had my first organic grow ever and i doubt ill ever go back. Landrace sativas grow much better. I was a flora series man for years but I dont miss that salt build up and coco was just one ph nightmare after another. definitely not for the lazy grower like me
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
That's pretty dam cool. How long can you keep reusing the same soil?

This is how my wife's friend out in oregon mixes his compost tea in a 250 gallon reservoir:



And a cool video showing a little of the farm:


If you're in a good sized raised bed, you could reuse the soil indefinitely as long as you keep cover crop going, top dressing, and mulching, and the soil quality gets better with every cycle, if you keep the soil fed and thriving with life. With an earthbox, a couple cycles and you would probably have to add new soil, but a bigger diy sip could probably run a lot more cycles.

Those reveg bushes are killer! I wish I could grow outdoors, but they don't allow it in my state.
 

Hollatchaboy

Well-Known Member
I just had my first organic grow ever and i doubt ill ever go back. Landrace sativas grow much better. I was a flora series man for years but I dont miss that salt build up and coco was just one ph nightmare after another. definitely not for the lazy grower like me
I still use the flora series for dwc in another tent. Love the shit. I really like jacks 321 too though.
 

RobCat

Well-Known Member
I still use the flora series for dwc in another tent. Love the shit. I really like jacks 321 too though.
I just had to buckle down with the fact that i was growing landraces and theyre very touchy with syntetics. You give them too much of any nute and it can send them into a shit spiral that they never recover from. Flora works great with most mainstream strains though
 
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