Stoned Jack Bauer
Member
ok so im thinkin bout gettin a cmh for a flower room but i was reading this quote:
Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.
which is further down the page in the info section.
and was wondering as it says it needs 3" of wire does anyone know what this means for the newer hps(still mag core) with the 6 ft cord to the mogul? does this mean it wont work at all or will it have decreased output or slower startup?etc.?
can anyone with info and experience knowledge using these pls post or pm me
finally below is just some info on cmh i found which has prolly been posted before but incase it hasnt
btw i found this on a site forum through google search and copy pasted so i take no credit for compiling
Some basic info:
Ceramic Metal Halide lamps are currently not available in sizes over 400 watts. Philips is working on it, however there is no ETA.
The CMH lamps 150w and lower should work with digital ballasts.
250w and 400w CMH lamps will NOT work with ANY digital ballast EXCEPT the ones SPECIFICALLY made to fire CMH lamps.
250w and 400w CMH lamps will work with most good quality 250w (ANSI S50) and 400w (ANSI S51) HPS ballasts.
Read the second post in this thread.
This is the spectrum for a CMH bulb:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeotrope
Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.
The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!
Good luck and keep after it.
-----------------------
Philips Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White (CMH) (HPS> <CMH)
250 & 400 Watt Uses HPS Ballast, 20-150 watt on other pages
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm
international / world wide shipping
How was CMH Invented.
its the Arc tube of HPS and the Gases of Metal halide Basically.. and it created something totally new..
theres a few reasons it hasn't come to our Market faster but thats great all the bugs are out..
CMH INFO
Philips Ceramic Metal Halide MasterColor is available in
20-400 watts
20-150 watt PCMH's run on Pulsed start Metal Halide Ballasts Only
250-400 are avail in PS MH or HPS retro..
(we chose HPS retro for many reasons for horti)
the 250 and 400 "HPS Retro White Ceramic Metal Halide" are specifically designed for use in HPS Magnetic Core Ballasts..
cmh bulbs will run on a electronic ballast only if that electronic ballasts Specifically says for use with Ceramic Bulb on the actual ballasts..
actually cmh like the low Freq of Mag core ballasts over High Freq Electronic ballasts.
there preferred range is 144-240Hz mag core ballasts is 60hz
Ceramic Metal Halide ( CMH ) competes and Whomps the EYE Hortilux Blue (MT400D/HOR/HTL - BLUE)
comparing the 400 horizontals.. as the vertical 400 and both vertical and horizontal 250 cmh has 20K hours 5k longer than 400 WOW!
.............................. ...EYE-BLUE..........CMH
Ballast....................... .MH-Probe..........HPS (easy conversion for hps users)
Price .........................$90-100............50-70
Life.......................... ..12,000Hrs.........15,000Hrs
Initial Lumens...............29,000... ..........34,800
Mean Lumens ..............22,000.......... ...29,600
Lumen maintenance.......64%......... .......85%
Now when you take the last 4 lines and really look at that your actually getting Twice the lamp for half the cost..
not only do you get more initial and Mean lumen's a longer life and more usable life (IE 85%)
the CMH has higher Red to Blue ratio and thats what we WANT to promote better Flowering
CMH doesn't Throw Heat like MH or HPS especially MH
it just so happens the arc tube (from the HPS side of the lamp) Blocks and absorbs allot of that energy and instead of radiating it it holds it and releases almost all up.. * Ya cmh does still throw some heat but Nothing compared to Equal Wattage in MH or HPS..
The Philips Retro white is also open Fixture Rated the EYE Blue IS NOT>>
you need to follow those ratings on your lamps if it states Enclosed fixture you better use a fixture rated Enclosed.
now you say but neither have High lumen's like my HPS Extreme.
ya thats because if you notice the SPD on the HPS you will see they increse the Lumen rating by creating more Yellow Light But thats not what we want..
in short hps dumps about IMPHO 50% of its Total outputted energy where the plant cant absorb it. where as cmh when you compare its Whole output about 25% about wasted like HPS (that 50% and 25% is not fully wasted just 95% of it.. in that range)
and just incase you forgot the question after readin all that lol
and was wondering as it says it needs 3" of wire does anyone know what this means for the newer hps(still mag core) with the 6 ft cord to the mogul? does this mean it wont work at all or will it have decreased output or slower startup?etc.?
can anyone with info and experience knowledge using these pls post or pm me
thanks again
Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.
which is further down the page in the info section.
and was wondering as it says it needs 3" of wire does anyone know what this means for the newer hps(still mag core) with the 6 ft cord to the mogul? does this mean it wont work at all or will it have decreased output or slower startup?etc.?
can anyone with info and experience knowledge using these pls post or pm me
finally below is just some info on cmh i found which has prolly been posted before but incase it hasnt
btw i found this on a site forum through google search and copy pasted so i take no credit for compiling
Some basic info:
Ceramic Metal Halide lamps are currently not available in sizes over 400 watts. Philips is working on it, however there is no ETA.
The CMH lamps 150w and lower should work with digital ballasts.
250w and 400w CMH lamps will NOT work with ANY digital ballast EXCEPT the ones SPECIFICALLY made to fire CMH lamps.
250w and 400w CMH lamps will work with most good quality 250w (ANSI S50) and 400w (ANSI S51) HPS ballasts.
Read the second post in this thread.
This is the spectrum for a CMH bulb:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azeotrope
Folks, I just recieved a very good and insightful PM in regards to "trouble" some folks are having with these lamps. It is not the lamp (99% of the time). These lamps were designed as a retrofit for industrial lighting fixtures that have a standard 3' ignitor. this means the ignitor was designed to strike/start a HPS (easy to start) up to 3' of wire away from the ignitor. Most of the off of the shelf Hydro shop ballasts are using just that and getting away with it. The less expensive ballasts use cheap components and switchables should be outlawed in my view. As the switchables go, they put a switch in the ignitor circuit. Most of those switches are not 5kv pulse rated or even 600v rated as they should be at a minimum. If you are going to use these bulbs you need to understand that they require (for best reliability) a high quality ballast kit (that will generally provide a high quality ignitor) ie. Advance, Venture, Sylvania, Sola(o.k.) and such with high quality STRANDED 600v rated 16ga - 14ga wire between the ignitor (ballast box) and the socket. You should also use 5kv pulse rated connectors and always ground your hood/reflector (safety). The only time in what is now many years of using these that I have had one fail, it was like 3 or 4yrs old and toasted by over use.
The HPS bulbs are easy to start and the CMH bulbs are harder to start. A weak or old ignitor, core or capacitor can be troublesome. Keep your cords to 6-8' if all the above is in order you should not have trouble. I love them so much I just bought 2 new 400w horiz at my supplier today for a re-lamp. $79.00 US! Can't beat that!!!
Good luck and keep after it.
-----------------------
Philips Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White (CMH) (HPS> <CMH)
250 & 400 Watt Uses HPS Ballast, 20-150 watt on other pages
http://advancedtechlighting.com/cdmed18.htm
international / world wide shipping
How was CMH Invented.
its the Arc tube of HPS and the Gases of Metal halide Basically.. and it created something totally new..
theres a few reasons it hasn't come to our Market faster but thats great all the bugs are out..
CMH INFO
Philips Ceramic Metal Halide MasterColor is available in
20-400 watts
20-150 watt PCMH's run on Pulsed start Metal Halide Ballasts Only
250-400 are avail in PS MH or HPS retro..
(we chose HPS retro for many reasons for horti)
the 250 and 400 "HPS Retro White Ceramic Metal Halide" are specifically designed for use in HPS Magnetic Core Ballasts..
cmh bulbs will run on a electronic ballast only if that electronic ballasts Specifically says for use with Ceramic Bulb on the actual ballasts..
actually cmh like the low Freq of Mag core ballasts over High Freq Electronic ballasts.
there preferred range is 144-240Hz mag core ballasts is 60hz
Ceramic Metal Halide ( CMH ) competes and Whomps the EYE Hortilux Blue (MT400D/HOR/HTL - BLUE)
comparing the 400 horizontals.. as the vertical 400 and both vertical and horizontal 250 cmh has 20K hours 5k longer than 400 WOW!
.............................. ...EYE-BLUE..........CMH
Ballast....................... .MH-Probe..........HPS (easy conversion for hps users)
Price .........................$90-100............50-70
Life.......................... ..12,000Hrs.........15,000Hrs
Initial Lumens...............29,000... ..........34,800
Mean Lumens ..............22,000.......... ...29,600
Lumen maintenance.......64%......... .......85%
Now when you take the last 4 lines and really look at that your actually getting Twice the lamp for half the cost..
not only do you get more initial and Mean lumen's a longer life and more usable life (IE 85%)
the CMH has higher Red to Blue ratio and thats what we WANT to promote better Flowering
CMH doesn't Throw Heat like MH or HPS especially MH
it just so happens the arc tube (from the HPS side of the lamp) Blocks and absorbs allot of that energy and instead of radiating it it holds it and releases almost all up.. * Ya cmh does still throw some heat but Nothing compared to Equal Wattage in MH or HPS..
The Philips Retro white is also open Fixture Rated the EYE Blue IS NOT>>
you need to follow those ratings on your lamps if it states Enclosed fixture you better use a fixture rated Enclosed.
now you say but neither have High lumen's like my HPS Extreme.
ya thats because if you notice the SPD on the HPS you will see they increse the Lumen rating by creating more Yellow Light But thats not what we want..
in short hps dumps about IMPHO 50% of its Total outputted energy where the plant cant absorb it. where as cmh when you compare its Whole output about 25% about wasted like HPS (that 50% and 25% is not fully wasted just 95% of it.. in that range)
and just incase you forgot the question after readin all that lol
and was wondering as it says it needs 3" of wire does anyone know what this means for the newer hps(still mag core) with the 6 ft cord to the mogul? does this mean it wont work at all or will it have decreased output or slower startup?etc.?
can anyone with info and experience knowledge using these pls post or pm me
thanks again
