Club 600

duchieman

Well-Known Member
Turn it around? What are you talking about? That's like saying turn a dog around so his tail isn't behind him... If i turn it around, the weak spot will move- duh?
Oh man, what's with the insulting tone dude. Man we've seen guys like you come through here before asking us all for our advice and when given you totally disregard it and go with what you think anyway. And then you go ahead and be insulting? That'll definitely not get you very far here.
 

pandan

Active Member
Ok I just called the hydro shop and got a better explanation then I have from here :)
I will be going back to just a 600w, not because of heat or power efficiency but because of this:

When you have a cup of water then add another cup of water, you have 2 cups of water BUT if those cups of water are light strength then it goes like this- one cup of water plus another cup of water equals one cup of water... just in two different places. So with that analogy my 600w is something like say 1 and a half cups of water strong but the two 400w's are only 1 cup strong- as too would having 1 400w light be only 1 cup of water strong. Yeah physics is a weird thing. Turns out you can't build up light intensity by using lots of small lights.

So he says I am right about the light angles being better- just like my diagram shows, but it's a trade off really which way I want to lose out. Do I want a light that will make better and bigger bud on all it touches but misses some of it? Or do I want a light that will pretty much directly hit everything BUT not produce as good a bud on those points... I'll go the 1x 600w a bit crest fallen.
Apparently to achieve what I set out to do without losing out I need a light mover or to get some CFL side lighting.

Thanks for people's input on the subject
 

ghb

Well-Known Member
hmmm it doesn't make much sense to me the cups of water thingy, but i'm pretty sure everybody on here would have told you 1x600w is better than 2x 400w lights.
 

pandan

Active Member
Oh man, what's with the insulting tone dude. Man we've seen guys like you come through here before asking us all for our advice and when given you totally disregard it and go with what you think anyway. And then you go ahead and be insulting? That'll definitely not get you very far here.
Ok sorry that was insulting- but i did find it also insulting to be told "or you,a 600,"faceing the right way",would be best for that spot..imo." like I was some idiot who can't just turn a light around.
I didn't have to say what i did though sorry.

I have definitely not disregarded anything people have told me. I've kept on doing what I have been and debated back and forward just to really get people's opinions out in a way that I know they've covered all the bases and ticked all the box's- and that's what has happened. Now I am taking other people's advice and going back to 1 600w, completely understanding all that entails. I'm not just doing something because I was told but because I understand why it's best.
 

pandan

Active Member
You wouldn't happen to have two 35 Watt bulbs do you? Totaling 70
That's what I mean, you get 2x 35 watt bulbs and you have 70 watts of energy being drawn- but that's not as powerful as a single 70watt light- not because of the energy loss, which is definitely there, but because you can't add up the light like building blocks or cups of water, it has to come out of each lamp at the intensity you want to begin with.
 

pandan

Active Member
You are right people did tell me straight away it wasn't good, but it took time for everyone individually to build the full picture so i wasn't just taking their word for it. See to begin with people just told me about power usage and heat. No one was acknowledging my still valid point about the light angles too, i don't think people understood what i meant. So it went on like that for a while until now it's shifted to just being about using smaller lights not adding up
 

pandan

Active Member
we are all genius' here, you need to take our word for it when we tell you something. your lack of faith sickens me.
LOL ok sorry wise master. It probably pisses people off that i debate them when they tell me something, but it's not because I don't believe them it's because I want to believe what they say but only believe things with lots of facts behind them and no questions left. Like seriously i've only actually come on to RIU these last few days to see what else people told me about all this.
 

pandan

Active Member
OH I got a better example lol fuck the cups of water off ok

You got a bud that 15% THC and then add another bud that's 15% THC and you don't get 30% THC- it's still 15! That's the type of explanation that has led me back to the 600 despite it not getting the best angles without a moving track.
 

duchieman

Well-Known Member
Not just turning a fixture, but angling and adjusting height will all aid in covering your area. I use a 600 in a 2m3 tent, same size as yours, and I would never consider two 400's and here's my explanation.

1 x 600W HPS = 90,000 lumen
1 x 400W HPS = 55,000 lumen
2 x 400W HPS = 110,000 lumen

1x 600W/hr X 12hrs/day X 365 days = 2.628 million watts/1000 = 2,628Kwh x .12/Kwh = 315.36/yr
2 x400W/hr X 12hrs/day X 365 days = 3.504 million watts/1000 = 3.504Kwh x ,12/Kwh = 420.48/yr

So I understand that you say that money not an issue because you wont be paying for it, and that's true and if you want to throw it around that's your prerogative. But I'm guessing, and I can't say for sure cause I dont have the equipment, but under identical conditions I would think have the two 4's would bring your temps at least 5C higher. Yes your sitting at 30 and that's ok but not great. The loss your gonna face with heat, not to mention denseness and quality, will be far greater than any loss in growth from the minimal light loss. It seem to be a case of the grower being fussier than the plant is.

Sorry to come on strong.

Here's a scenario for you. You grow 1oz of fluff under the 2 400's and 1/2oz of primo punch you in the face Ganja under the 600. The Fluff your filling your bowl every 15 mins and the Primo once every two hrs and get's you way higher. Which one get's you further ahead. I'd rather have a 1/4oz plant of primo than an Oz of crap.
 

billcollector99

Well-Known Member
OH I got a better example lol fuck the cups of water off ok

You got a bud that 15% THC and then add another bud that's 15% THC and you don't get 30% THC- it's still 15! That's the type of explanation that has led me back to the 600 despite it not getting the best angles without a moving track.
Bad analogy, smoke one bud your high, smoke another bud you are high for longer, adding up buds increases high and duration not the same as increasing light. Besides plants dont read light the same way humans do so lumens is not the best measurement for determining the efficacy of a light. IMO
Besides lumens decrease as you move away from the lamp so if you have a 600 w bulb in the center of the tent, the sides are not going to be lit up as well as the center regardless of where you position the bulb, and thats why some folks believe that it is better to spread the light amongst multiple sources. So you have EVEN light distribution
 

pandan

Active Member
Bad analogy, smoke one bud your high, smoke another bud you are high for longer, adding up buds increases high and duration not the same as increasing light. Besides plants dont read light the same way humans do so lumens is not the best measurement for determining the efficacy of a light. IMO
No i didn't say smoke it i just said do a thc percentage test. 1 bud of one thc percentage + another of the same gives more volume but still the same percentage of thc.

Do you know what's funny? I was on your side of the fence VERY recently. It's this whole light + light doesn't equal stronger light thing that really sells it to me to use a 600w.
Like oldmate just said, I too would rather have a quarter oz of good stuff then more stuff of bad
 

DoobieBrother

Well-Known Member
And light is cumulative.
If in doubt, light your living room with one 13w CFL.
Then add another, and another, and another.
Gets brighter with each bulb, no?
Whether many small bulbs are more efficient than one higher output bulb is a whole different ball of hash.

And I will say this about many of the "regulars" in Club 600: there are some heavy duty growers in here (not me) who are well on their way to Cannabis Mastery, and all combinations and types of lights have been tried by a good majority of us (me included).
The only way you'll ever not have parts of your plants in shade is to either lollipop them all, or do vertical lighting with equal amounts of side-lighting (...I'll see you on the dark side of the moon...) so every leaf is saturated with light from all angles.
That would be ideal.
Also expensive to run (many of us are on budgets), as the more lights you add, the more heat is generated, so AC and humidifiers/dehumidifiers become necessary, etc.
To kvetch over a branch or light pattern is something we all have done when we started out.
We all worry about every little detail, every little error, every possibility of improvement.
After a while you'll find yourself less stressed about it.

The other option, if you're unwilling to move your light or adjust it's aim (or, like me: a light in a fixed position in a wooden grow box), is to turn plants periodically so they get more adequate coverage.
But doing so means the entire plant gets less light which equals smaller & fluffier bud.

Heat is a killer for bud density, unless you are augmenting your grow with C02.

Also, any fluffy buds you don't find worthy of smoking can always be added to your trim stash so you can make BHO (*or use isopropyl alcohol) or hash out of it.

We've had a rash of new growers asking questions, then doing everything possible to ignore advice from various individuals whose growing prowess are nearing legendary proportions.
If you want advice you can trust, do a search on the person giving advice so you can weigh their experience level before you dismiss what's being said.
If you click on the user's name next their avatar you will get a drop-down menu that let's you check out the person's posting history, check out their grow journals and any articles they might have contributed.

The fact that you want to make sure you get your ducks in a row just means you're on your way to being a better grower.
But the guys here in the 600 aren't out to steer you wrong or make you grow in a style you don't want.
It's just that every grow is a matter of compromises, and having one kola taller than the others is nothing.
You can tie it down (bending the trunk gently) so the tip is at canopy height, or slowly "snap" it over to a 90-degree angle at the height of the rest of the canopy and let it continue on.
Or leave it be, if it's not in danger of burning into the light.
I believe whodat has a PRIME example of THAT scenario (hateful respect...)

That's one of the cool things about growing cannabis: a million ways to grow, and none are best for all situations.
;-)
Hope you'll stick around, we can always use new peeps in here and new bud pR0n.
Peace!
bongsmilie
 

genuity

Well-Known Member
Turn it around? What are you talking about? That's like saying turn a dog around so his tail isn't behind him... If i turn it around, the weak spot will move- duh?
hownotbetter.jpgthis is what i was talking about....see how i turnd the light around?
 

4tatude

Well-Known Member
And light is cumulative.
If in doubt, light your living room with one 13w CFL.
Then add another, and another, and another.
Gets brighter with each bulb, no?
Whether many small bulbs are more efficient than one higher output bulb is a whole different ball of hash.

And I will say this about many of the "regulars" in Club 600: there are some heavy duty growers in here (not me) who are well on their way to Cannabis Mastery, and all combinations and types of lights have been tried by a good majority of us (me included).
The only way you'll ever not have parts of your plants in shade is to either lollipop them all, or do vertical lighting with equal amounts of side-lighting (...I'll see you on the dark side of the moon...) so every leaf is saturated with light from all angles.
That would be ideal.
Also expensive to run (many of us are on budgets), as the more lights you add, the more heat is generated, so AC and humidifiers/dehumidifiers become necessary, etc.
To kvetch over a branch or light pattern is something we all have done when we started out.
We all worry about every little detail, every little error, every possibility of improvement.
After a while you'll find yourself less stressed about it.

The other option, if you're unwilling to move your light or adjust it's aim (or, like me: a light in a fixed position in a wooden grow box), is to turn plants periodically so they get more adequate coverage.
But doing so means the entire plant gets less light which equals smaller & fluffier bud.

Heat is a killer for bud density, unless you are augmenting your grow with C02.

Also, any fluffy buds you don't find worthy of smoking can always be added to your trim stash so you can make BHO or hash out of it.

We've had a rash of new growers asking questions, then doing everything possible to ignore advice from various individuals whose growing prowess are nearing legendary proportions.
If you want advice you can trust, do a search on the person giving advice so you can weigh their experience level before you dismiss what's being said.
If you click on the users name next their avatar you will get a drop-down menu that let's you check out the person's posting history, check out their grow journals and any articles they might have contributed.

The fact that you want to make sure you get your ducks in a row just means your on your way to being a better grower.
But the guys here in the 600 aren't out to steer you wrong or make you grow in a style you don't want.
It's just that every grow is a matter of compromises, and having one kola taller than the others is nothing.
You can tie it down (bending the trunk gently) so the tip is at canopy height, or slowly "snap" it over to a 90-degree angle at the height of the rest of the canopy and let it continue on.
Or leave it be, if it's not in danger of burning into the light.
I believe whodat has a PRIME example of THAT scenario (hateful respect...)

That's one of the cool things about growing cannabis: a million ways to grow, and none are best for all situations.
;-)
Hope you'll stick around, we can always use new peeps in here and new bud pR0n.
Peace!
bongsmilie
well put doobie +rep for a well thought out response and explination
 

billcollector99

Well-Known Member
No i didn't say smoke it i just said do a thc percentage test. 1 bud of one thc percentage + another of the same gives more volume but still the same percentage of thc.

Do you know what's funny? I was on your side of the fence VERY recently. It's this whole light + light doesn't equal stronger light thing that really sells it to me to use a 600w.
Like oldmate just said, I too would rather have a quarter oz of good stuff then more stuff of bad
Im not telling you to use one light over another just evaluate the differences between the different systems and figure out what will work best for you...
 

barcodelxix

Member
Thanks. My first box was 4x4x4 with a 1foot veg side a 3 foot bud side with a 400 watter. Did a good job till some how I got busted/knock and talk. All cause of an anonymous call. I know who it was saddly. This person NEVER seen anything,just a hunch and wanted revenge. And I was trying to help them with. A bad drug and alcohol and csb problems. Cause I wouldn't lie to there case worker at csb.Fuct up 3 years, no jail time though. Still kept growing though. NO more outdoors for me. If it wasn't for that I would have been alright. Got a new house, new set up. I hope this box does good if not great. Although I think the SLH is going to be a problem. I'm flipping the light and it has vegged for 6 weeks now. I just tie them down but the biggest one is already 4 to 5 feet laying down. Train train train I guess.
 
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