Club 600

afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
phishtank said:
Alright cool canna coco it is. I feel like the FFOF is just way too loaded down with nutes in the beginning and it just causes some unwanted problems if plants are nute sensitive.
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When I was OG inside, I used FFHF. It has base amendments like castings, but never burned anything, even clones. (After rooting, of course)
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
afrawfraw said:
Not to be a dick back, but while GO delivers immediately available nutrients, not ALL of the nutrients can be taken up by the roots immediately. And flushing amended soil helps clear the rhizosphere of micro organisms and the freshly chelated minerals so they aren't as abundant at the roots.

For every organic gardener, I recommend a few books I grabbed that helped immensely!

"Teaming with Microbes" by Jeff Lowenfels & Wayne Lewis
"Rodale's Ultimate Encyclopedia of Organic Gardening" by Rodale
"The Organic Gardeners Handbook of Natural Pest and Disease Control" by Rodale

Super helpful.
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It's 95% mineralized. But don't you grow in coco? Bennies eat carbon as their main food source in a ratio of 50:1 carbon to nitrogen rich organic matter. Coco is pretty fucking inert... bennies can't process it... Although it's 100% carbon it's not a readily bio available form which means that even if you introduced bennies to your coco they wouldn't be able to convert any amount of non soluble NPK into plant available nutes.
 
nas2007

nas2007

Well-Known Member
phishtank said:
Alright cool canna coco it is. I feel like the FFOF is just way too loaded down with nutes in the beginning and it just causes some unwanted problems if plants are nute sensitive.
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yeah i agree i had loads of problems when i started growing newly with with soil, but then when i switched to canna coco pro plus, omg i had the healthiest plants ever! and very easy to grow in, if you want tuns of info on using coco give this a thread a visit [h=3]The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread and if you need any help give us a post on the thread will help yeh out ;)[/h]
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
this should be true and correct:

i have it in a pdf file, so i copied and pasted sorry i know... i know

There is really no difference between an atom, mineral or the element itself. What matters is whether or not they are in a form that is non-harmful and that can used by plants. If so, they are beneficial whether natural or manmade. Plants do not take up carbon at the roots, they get all they need from the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] in the air, so the term "organic gardening" is confusing. The same minerals are needed in either hydroponic or organic growing. These minerals are provided to plants in the organic garden as they are released from organic matter by the action of microbes, worms and bacteria. In hydroponics, these same elements are provided by water soluble mineral salts.
But is it organic? Can a hydroponic plant nutrient be classified as organic? Probably not, unless you go back to the chemical definition of the word, that is a substance that contains carbon. By this definition, many "chemical" nutrient formulas would be considered organic. These include the chelated trace elements as well as urea, which contains carbon in the form (NH[SUB]2[/SUB])CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. It is also possible to define a hydroponic nutrient solution as organic by drawing on the definition many people use that organic is "natural".
Most of the mineral elements used in hydroponics start out as mined rock or mineral deposits which are as natural as the earth itself. The important point is that it is not the elements that are different in organic and hydroponic growing, it is how these elements are obtained and delivered to the plant.
 
Shwagbag

Shwagbag

Well-Known Member
phishtank said:
Alright cool canna coco it is. I feel like the FFOF is just way too loaded down with nutes in the beginning and it just causes some unwanted problems if plants are nute sensitive.
Click to expand...
If you feel like FFOF is too hot try cutting with pro-mix peat moss, it works well for me for vegging plants and seedlings. Either that or some light warrior, never used it but that's what its for :) I prefer Happy Frog for seedlings and vegging plants, OF seems more geared for a flowering mix to me.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
Gastanker said:
It's 95% mineralized. But don't you grow in coco? Bennies eat carbon as their main food source in a ratio of 50:1 carbon to nitrogen rich organic matter. Coco is inert... bennies can't process it... Although it's 100% carbon it's not a bio available form which means that even if you introduced bennies to your coco they wouldn't be able to convert any amount of non soluble NPK into plant available nutes.
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They must have changed there solutions then. When I used GO, bits of shit would get stuck in my pump filter. Chunks of seaweed, Etc. Perhaps they've improved. I use SYNTHETIC nutrients in coir. When I was OG, I used FFHF soil.

If I find a OG nutrient that performs AND keeps like synthetic, I'll give it a whirl. I never claimed I knew it all. Just speaking from experience. I still use OG outside however, because, well, why wouldn't you?
 
Gastanker

Gastanker

Well-Known Member
afrawfraw said:
They must have changed there solutions then. When I used GO, bits of shit would get stuck in my pump filter. Chunks of seaweed, Etc. Perhaps they've improved. I use SYNTHETIC nutrients in coir. When I was OG, I used FFHF soil.

If I find a OG nutrient that performs AND keeps like synthetic, I'll give it a whirl. I never claimed I knew it all. Just speaking from experience. I still use OG outside however, because, well, why wouldn't you?
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Ah gotcha. That makes more sense. Thank you - always looking to hear about people experiences.
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
flowamasta said:
this should be true and correct:

i have it in a pdf file, so i copied and pasted sorry i know... i know

There is really no difference between an atom, mineral or the element itself. What matters is whether or not they are in a form that is non-harmful and that can used by plants. If so, they are beneficial whether natural or manmade. Plants do not take up carbon at the roots, they get all they need from the CO[SUB]2[/SUB] in the air, so the term "organic gardening" is confusing. The same minerals are needed in either hydroponic or organic growing. These minerals are provided to plants in the organic garden as they are released from organic matter by the action of microbes, worms and bacteria. In hydroponics, these same elements are provided by water soluble mineral salts.
But is it organic? Can a hydroponic plant nutrient be classified as organic? Probably not, unless you go back to the chemical definition of the word, that is a substance that contains carbon. By this definition, many "chemical" nutrient formulas would be considered organic. These include the chelated trace elements as well as urea, which contains carbon in the form (NH[SUB]2[/SUB])CO[SUB]2[/SUB]. It is also possible to define a hydroponic nutrient solution as organic by drawing on the definition many people use that organic is "natural".
Most of the mineral elements used in hydroponics start out as mined rock or mineral deposits which are as natural as the earth itself. The important point is that it is not the elements that are different in organic and hydroponic growing, it is how these elements are obtained and delivered to the plant.
Click to expand...
That's correct. "Organic" to me means organisms are required to provide the minerals, or were used to chelate said minerals.
 
P

phishtank

Well-Known Member
Do you guys find yourself having to water more when using coco? And is the layer of perlite in the bottom to promote drainage?
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
I use me some Exxon Valdez nutrients. They're cheap, they keep, they work. Good enough for NASA, good enough for me. LOL. The debate continues. To me, it's more the goal that determines the best path. If I need superior quality, OG. But the difference isn't enough to warrant giving up 4 extra ounces and an additional crop every year. I'm sure someone else has my same show, and uses OG methods just fine. I just find these new ones faster, and easier to control. No more random yellowing or twisting. No more stink. No more buying water with my nutrients. I know people from the 60's and 70's that laugh at all of us for buying nutrients at all.
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
exactly, which means it doesn't get taken up by the plant differently.......organics must be harder to control, therefore requiring a shitload more attention to details i imagine. i love the smell of synthetics, but again, i'm an idiot
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
phishtank said:
Do you guys find yourself having to water more when using coco? And is the layer of perlite in the bottom to promote drainage?
Click to expand...
Yes, I use coarse perlite to prevent plugs of cocoa from settling into the drainage holes, as well as having O2 at the bottom of the root ball. Also, the tap roots love the perlite oddly enough. Kinda a half assed NFT deal at the bottom. The perlite keeps water puddled around the rocks which the roots sit in, but don't rot. Kinda nifty.
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
my father still grows occasionally and only uses a simple a+b mix a for grow, and b for flower, talk about simple!! wouldn't have the foggiest where he got all that, but he's got drums of the shit, not my cup of tea, but it works for him, dads a thrive kinda guy, quick mix n feed, old' school
 
afrawfraw

afrawfraw

Well-Known Member
flowamasta said:
exactly, which means it doesn't get taken up by the plant differently.......organics must be harder to control, therefore requiring a shitload more attention to details i imagine. i love the smell of synthetics, but again, i'm an idiot
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Ya, once inside the plant, it's the same shit. There is an even better reason for using my nutrients that no one can argue with. =P

When I poor in my nutrients, my white powder makes the water turn blue. It reminds me of making Magic Color Changing KoolAid with my mom. It brings back positive memories of my deceased mommy. =)
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
afrawfraw said:
Yes, I use coarse perlite to prevent plugs of cocoa from settling into the drainage holes, as well as having O2 at the bottom of the root ball. Also, the tap roots love the perlite oddly enough. Kinda a half assed NFT deal at the bottom. The perlite keeps water puddled around the rocks which the roots sit in, but don't rot. Kinda nifty.
Click to expand...
actually i guess i have been lying all along, i dont use 100% perlite, i have a couple of inches of hydroton on the inside hempy pot, the pot sock holes are fairly small, but let some shit through, so the hydroton holds most of the perlite in and prevents it from coming back through the res, at the start i sometimes get a bit of perlite come through, but my pump has a screen gauze, and the perlite floats, so no big deal, although it is funny when the pot is young and light, when i flush and turn the tap off at the drain hole, and fill it with water, the inside hempy wants to float on the water!, so i have to be careful
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

Well-Known Member
afrawfraw said:
Ya, once inside the plant, it's the same shit. There is an even better reason for using my nutrients that no one can argue with. =P

When I poor in my nutrients, my white powder makes the water turn blue. It reminds me of making Magic Color Changing KoolAid with my mom. It brings back positive memories of my deceased mommy. =)
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my thought go out to you ..... good memories
 
curious old fart

curious old fart

Well-Known Member
I've grown perlite- hempy style, coca, various soil mixtures and the best crop is the current one. A good quality professional bag soil, 25% perlite and tomato-tone nutes, also available in Jobe. Water with fox farm big bloom -1 tablespoon per gallon. It doesn't get any easier than that to produce top quality plants from seedlings and cuttings to finish.
the KISS plan is the best plan

:peace:
cof
 
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