Clones Wilting

JLStiffy

Well-Known Member
Hi
About 1 month ago I posted a thread about cloning and my post was about troubles cloning. Well I had 100percent last time, not bad because I usually loose a few.
But my problem still continues. Why do my clones wilt after a few hours of cutting???
I remember a few years ago my clones always stayed up strong but ever since I started cloning again I am having this problem.. Could I get as much feed back as possible please. When writing your response, assume I have done everything correct. I dont want to write a large paragraph on standard cloning tech.
Thanks for your time...
JL-Stiffy
 

wilsoncr17

Well-Known Member
are you spraying them often enough?
Is your light too close or bright keeping them from rooting?
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
Misting with an organic nute? Try filtered water two out of three times you mist. You're probably drawing moisture from the plant, cause you're exposing them to water with more electrolytes than they have within them. Osmosis.
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
also make sure the media is wet. Not damp but wet.

Try this to see if the misting issue is the problem. Pick two plants that are alike in size and degree of wilt with the same amount of air flowing over them,.. and mist one with DI water and the other with whatever you use, same number of squirts but hit them thoroughly. Then come back in twenty minutes and see which one looks drier. That would be the one with the better misting solution. When mine start to wilt I hit them with purified water and they perk right up. Then I'm misting an hour later with an Organic misting solution. I rarely even get yellowing.
 

JLStiffy

Well-Known Member
My clones are wilting about 4hours after cutting. I Use T8's and place them about 1foot above plant foliage. I use domes but I keep them cracked open. I water at 6.1 and am using Jiffys also known as peat pucks. I always make sure my medium is not wet. I keep it damp for the first week and than I can let them get saturated in water. So some of you guys think that it my be my water that cause's them to wilt? And why does misting help a clone stay study and not wilt? I never been able to grasp the concept of misting! I just dont have much faith in misting or foilar feeding such as an organic nut.
I also scraped the chambrum of the plant but did so very lightly. I had a few damp of because of this; I am guessing so. Any sugestion what causes my clones to wilt? If I know, I can easily fix.. --fcking troubleshooting lol.
 

JLStiffy

Well-Known Member
O I do not spray or mist my clones at all.. I have never done so. Could you please explain why I should and how does the process of spraying helping my clones. I understand about the light placement and rooting. thaks again guys.
 

Resident Kush

Well-Known Member
air bubble ! the only thing you can spot 24 hours after a clipping, is an air bubble, veins turning purple too im sure.

for the record, dont mist, leave dome closed for first week, water when dry, open lid 1/3, use rock wool ph 5.5 .. 100% 99% of the time.. oh and seed start and powder #2
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
I've never read any cloning how-to's, mainly because I never had an issue cloning. I've used jiffy cubes many times. They work fairly well, but they're kind of small.

Plants wilt that quickly for mostly one reason. They loose the rigidity of their cells, because of a lack of water. Think of a water balloon that's filled til it's about to burst and it's skin is rigid. That's a healthy well water plant cell. Now let half the water out so it's all saggy. That's a plant cell in need of water. My take on it is,.. when you take a cutting, you've stopped the water flow to those cells because you've separated them from the roots which soak up the water. The surface area of your plants roots is very large in comparison to the stalk of your plant. Your plant now has to get enough liquid through the surface area of your stalk, in a media that is only damp. It also seems to me, that if your media is too dry, you could draw moisture from your plant out through the cutting. Water travels through osmosis in a plant and it usually goes from the place with more water to the place with less water. If your media is drier than the interior of your plant, it will suck the water out of it. If you cut those clones, you probably know the plant stem oozes with liquid,.. you can practically squeeze it out.

Since I've never read a how to, and don't plan on it now, answer a question for me. Why only dampen the media and why refrain from misting?

Plants absorb moisture through their leaves and stalks,.. I mist because my cuttings don't have roots and they seem happier for it. I also have the media sitting in a few millimeters of water until I know roots have developed. I change this water every other day, and rinse the vessel with chlorinated tap water. I've never seen mold, mildew, fungus or anything other than happy clones either. I see no reason not to make sure the cuttings have as much water as they can soak up. Since I've started using an organic cloning nute, I've also rarely seen leaves go yellow as the plant tries to develop roots without nutrients.

Since plant structure is not air tight, I don't see how an air bubble could form. Is that possible? They respirate through their leaves, passing out oxygen and sucking in carbon dioxide. How does an air pocket form?

Listen to your plant,.. it's telling you it's thirsty. It sounds like you're applying growing techniques to cloning and trying not to over water and rot your roots. Is that in the cloning grow guide?
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
My technique for what it's worth;

take cuttings, dip in some rooting formula (haven't found one that didn't work) place in small cup of water pH'd and dechlorinated. Leave for 2 to 24 hours, and mist while they sit they're so the leaves are always wet.

Use this on your media and mist with it as well;
http://www.dirtworks.net/Earth-Juice-Rootstock.html

After soaking in the water, take the cuttings and make sure any residual rooting formula if you use a powder is rinsed off and do it again, dip in fresh rooting formula, and this time place in the media soaked with half strength rootstock. place in a tray with high enough walls that you can cover with seran wrap. Pour enough rootstock in the bottom so it is completely covered. Mist as often as you can for 48 hours. Then take media/cuttings out, and rinse the tray with tap water, and put media/cuttings back and make a fresh rootstock solution (stuff seems to go bad after a day or two and you might get some detrimental bacteria or fungus developing). Cover with wrap again, and continue misting. Keep around 75 degrees the whole time. Rinse the tray every 48 hours and it'll stay clean, your clones will have some nutes to help develop roots, and they'll be wet enough to stay hydrated. You can put them in the dark for the first few days as well,.. don't worry about stressing them by messing up a light cycle, because you've committed the ultimate stress by cutting it off the plant. The only thing worse is sticking it in a blender. Plants don't need light to start roots, and I think the dark helps by not having the plant photosynthesize without a root system to deliver it nutrients.
 

pigpen

Well-Known Member
there is a product called wilt spray. It stops the exact problem you are having. If you can clone with wilt spray just stop growing because u will never be able to. Also make sure to keep your clones as humid as possible. do you have a down over them?
 

Siddhartha

Well-Known Member
I try to soak them after cutting for about two hours. I've never timed rooting from this point with other methods, but I feel like it's quicker and it helps the plant adapt to soaking up water through it's stem. I also mist for the first week, and after that I only keep the media damp. I accidently left the cuttings in water for 24 hours once, it didn't seem to hurt, but the sooner you get the stem in a dark place, the sooner the root nodes will begin to form. They need darkness. You can cover the stem of your plant with paper or something and after a while you'll see root nodes start to form under it. You've probably also seen them on your stem just above the dirt level where it doesn't get much light.
 

JLStiffy

Well-Known Member
Since I've never read a how to, and don't plan on it now, answer a question for me. Why only dampen the media and why refrain from misting?

Well I only dampen the roots medium because I do not want to promote damping off. Right now I am having that issue. I did give my Medium more water yesterday and the clones are maintaining their structure but I hate guessing on which clones damped off, that is until, I see the exposed plant flop over. When I first started to mist I did so gingerly. Than i just gave up on it because I did not recognize the effects of misting. In the past, I used B1 for misting when cloning; on the other hand, today I do not use B1 and I do not get much, if at all, yellowing on my clones. Just a few leafs will on a few clones had the deficiencies. Most of the clones root between 10-20days.
What do you do to defeat the damping off effect? I stopped using No-damp because it is no longer available in Canada-let alone on the market.. FYI, i only had success running no-damp at 50%.
I also just started to clone again using jiffies. I always used an areoponic cloner- its great if you like roots!!! But I am not using it right now because this starin that I am working with, as I have heard, is pretty damn picky when it comes to areo/hydroponics. This strain is offered by Clone only and provided not to the general seed buyers. It is very weird. It does not grow well under artifical light. I was worned and I decdied to veg 9 mother plants but little did I know- they were right!!
So I am trying to work with this strain with the jiffies. I rooted 55 at 100% success and I had the wilting. I clones down 133 thrree days ago and lots 3 from damping off. I use a rooting Gel and am very causese about exposeing my clone to air. What resident Kush was talking about was an Air Embolism. This is when an air pocket stops the flow of osmois to the plant. Anyways. Anything else you wanna shair :)
Thanks again for your timly response.
JL-Stiffy. BTW nice profile pick..
 
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