Claw and yellow w pics Need explanation

Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Here are 3 pics of one plant, it has been looking like this and worse since just before transplant and after. 23 days old. Soil mix with vermiculite perlite and a small amount of blood meal 1/4tablespoon in 3 gallons of soil. Also fed 1/2 dose nute using flora 3 part system in the last watering, after no improvements i flushed this plant and one other that look similiar but not as bad. I have 5 plants, all been treating them the same, so i thought. The 3 in the red bags are on concrete slab, just raised them off the floor this am. Also fimmed 2 of the ones in red bags only a day prior to transplanting, so i def shocked them a little more than i needed. the last pic is of a sativa, might be from sour diesel seed(all bag seeds) i transplanted this one and waited 2 days, then fimmed it and now its exploding. The other plants are definately shocked in some form. The 2 plants with wet soil i flushed with RO water(no calmag added) and measured the ph of the run off. Its aprox6.25 going in and about 7 coming out, i will note the one with the more yellow leaves had just a slightly higher ph from runoff than the other that is super stressed. I appreciate any input as I am learning alot on this grow. Everything else should be kosher, temps range from 67 at night to 81 and humidity pretty steady around 40%a.jpgb.jpgc.jpgd.jpgd1.jpgd2.jpg
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Sooo I'm guessing ph issue resulting in some kind of nute def? Gonna wait I guess and see what they do.
 
AimAim

AimAim

Well-Known Member
Other than the one in the blue they look overwatered.

You don't need to worry about pH much if you have a good buffered soil mix.
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
I'm with AimAim here. It almost certainly isn't a pH issue. Looks like over watering. Over watering isn't so much about how much water you use to water them, but how long the roots stay wet. They have to dry out a bit before you water again.
Are you using distilled/RO water exclusively? Despite what many will tell you, tap is perfectly fine, in fact it has essential minerals that aren't in RO or distilled, like Ca and Mg. The use of RO or Distilled water leads to more deficiencies than anything.
I'd let them dry out pretty well first, then use some tap water with maybe​ a bit of cal/mag and see what happens.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
I wait minimum 2 days before water and wait until containers feel light like when I first filled them. I did drench them before the pics because I wanted to test the runoff, this is also the first time I've added enough water to produce runoff. I guess I am not understanding how dry should the soil be before I give them water. I didn't water my other 3 plant when I flushed the two last night because the soil is dry on top but I can detect moisture 2-3" down. Shoud I only be watering maybe once a week and give them a good drench. Also my house has very very hard water and ph tests just over 7, but I have ph up and down. And yes I have been using RO water exept for the very first watering when they were seedlings because I was out.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Also I am trying to understand why my soil which was supposed to come out of the bag at 5.5-6 ph or something like that, need to look at the bag, promix organic, why would it raise the ph of my RO water after running thru the soil? I didn't test off the back because I jumped the gun on this grow and didn't have a few key items. Also would my ammendment of blood meal have anything to do with it? Possible nitrogen toxic? Why do the veins on the leaf look red in the center? Sorry if I have so many questions and I thank you all again for your insight.
 
AimAim

AimAim

Well-Known Member
Some good advice above from JH. I've used straight tap water for years, from a lot of different sources, and add cal-mag. Never a problem.

Don't worry about pH!

Soil should be real dry. I would guess I'd end up watering every 5 days or so, but that's in pots, I imagine those bags dry out more. Plus if you're running a fan across them they will dry out more. Your humidity at 40% will speed things up also. Point being you're gonna have to be the one to decide when to water. If you got another of those bags you could fill it similarly w/your dry mix and use it as a comparison.

It's no big deal if they get too dry and even wilt a little. Once you add water they will spring back up in a couple hours.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Come to think of it, perhaps my misting when plants were small caused the overwatering. I was misting because i had low humidity, below 20% but I have a humidifier now.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Thanks, good advice, the 40% humidity is with the humidifier running 24/7 on high just to give you an idea how dry it is. I never thought of filling a bag with soil and no plant to see how long before its completely dry. I'm always worried about touching and damaging any roots when probing with my finger.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
I was misting the seedling and the top of the soil 2 times daily, then water every 2-3 days. Soil seamed dry but honestly plants never looked like they needed water immediately.
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
The pH of any liquid poured into the soil is brought to the pH of the soil as it SITS IN CONTACT with the soil. Run-off is just that. It ran through the soil and wasn't in contact with the soil long enough to be affected. Soil (and the lime in it) is a buffer that resists pH change. You need to be concerned with the pH of the soil itself. Here is how I check mine:https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog17764-ph-your-tap-water-soil.html Once you determine that the pH is OK, you'll have to do some SERIOUS screwing up to get it to change.

When you water, always water until you get a good amount of run-off. Saturate the soil. Then wait until the soil is dry (even the lower part of the pot), Roots need oxygen. I use pots that are no deeper then 1.5 times it's width because the top of deep narrow pots can be dry but the lower part can be still really wet. I ran into problems before because of that.

Best way, bar none (For me at least) to figure out when to water is to saturate the soil until you get run-off. Feel the weight of the pot when full. Then let it dry out completely and lift , feeling the weight again.

I just realized that you have 1/4 tsp of blood meal in 3 Gal of soil. I have no idea what the "Flora" system is, nor it's NPK value, but I'd top dress a tsp or so of that blood meal around the base and water that in and get some more N in there. Also, that Sat is gonna need a bit more cal/mag than the others (If they are Indicas) Sats seem to devour cal/mag, especially in early to mid flower.
 
Liddle

Liddle

Well-Known Member
Jack Harer said:
I'm with AimAim here. It almost certainly isn't a pH issue. Looks like over watering. Over watering isn't so much about how much water you use to water them, but how long the roots stay wet. They have to dry out a bit before you water again.
Are you using distilled/RO water exclusively? Despite what many will tell you, tap is perfectly fine, in fact it has essential minerals that aren't in RO or distilled, like Ca and Mg. The use of RO or Distilled water leads to more deficiencies than anything.
I'd let them dry out pretty well first, then use some tap water with maybe​ a bit of cal/mag and see what happens.
Click to expand...
But you should airrate the water for a couple days regardless because the chlorine will kill beneficial bacteria/fungi.
 
Jack Harer

Jack Harer

Well-Known Member
Yes, most municipal water has chlorine/chloramine, but time and many growers have proven that it really isn't a concern. It certainly hasn't hurt my bottom line. OP I wouldn't worry about it. If you do your research, chlorine is one of the essential micronutrients and is needed to aid osmosis and photosynthesis.
 
P

plaguedog

Active Member
Jack Harer said:
Yes, most municipal water has chlorine/chloramine, but time and many growers have proven that it really isn't a concern. It certainly hasn't hurt my bottom line. OP I wouldn't worry about it. If you do your research, chlorine is one of the essential micronutrients and is needed to aid osmosis and photosynthesis.
Click to expand...
Agreed, and the quickest way to remove chlorine or chloramine is to add 1 tsp of molasses per gallon of water if you are running soil. Studies have shown any organic matter for the most part gets rid of both.

"Neutralize both with a teaspoon of molasses in 5 gallons
(do a search of forum)
OR a bit of compost
OR a bit of dirt
OR ascorbic acid (do a search)
OR an old shoe

Organic matter neutralizes chlorine and chloramines"

-Microbeman on another forum. http://microbeorganics.com/ all about compost tea, organics...etc

If you are worried about chloramine, I wouldn't: http://waterquality.cce.cornell.edu/publications/CCEWQ-17-ChloramineDisinfectant.pd


I have to agree with the rest, your plants are overwatered. At 23 days they look a little stunted, should be bigger than that probably due to low oxygen levels in the root zone. Your leaves will droop, and yellow because zero nutrient uptake.
 
AimAim

AimAim

Well-Known Member
Banana444 said:
Thanks, good advice, the 40% humidity is with the humidifier running 24/7 on high just to give you an idea how dry it is. I never thought of filling a bag with soil and no plant to see how long before its completely dry. I'm always worried about touching and damaging any roots when probing with my finger.
Click to expand...
Poking your finger in won't tell you anything about how dry the soil is in the bottom half of the put where most of the roots are, so ya gotta go by weight. I do stick my finger in the bottom holes in my pots, when it is damp but kinda crumbly confirms when I need to water.
 
AimAim

AimAim

Well-Known Member
Jack Harer said:
The pH of any liquid poured into the soil is brought to the pH of the soil as it SITS IN CONTACT with the soil. Run-off is just that. It ran through the soil and wasn't in contact with the soil long enough to be affected. Soil (and the lime in it) is a buffer that resists pH change. You need to be concerned with the pH of the soil itself. Here is how I check mine:https://www.rollitup.org/blogs/blog17764-ph-your-tap-water-soil.html Once you determine that the pH is OK, you'll have to do some SERIOUS screwing up to get it to change.

When you water, always water until you get a good amount of run-off. Saturate the soil. Then wait until the soil is dry (even the lower part of the pot), Roots need oxygen. I use pots that are no deeper then 1.5 times it's width because the top of deep narrow pots can be dry but the lower part can be still really wet. I ran into problems before because of that.

Best way, bar none (For me at least) to figure out when to water is to saturate the soil until you get run-off. Feel the weight of the pot when full. Then let it dry out completely and lift , feeling the weight again.

I just realized that you have 1/4 tsp of blood meal in 3 Gal of soil. I have no idea what the "Flora" system is, nor it's NPK value, but I'd top dress a tsp or so of that blood meal around the base and water that in and get some more N in there. Also, that Sat is gonna need a bit more cal/mag than the others (If they are Indicas) Sats seem to devour cal/mag, especially in early to mid flower.
Click to expand...
More excellent info from JH. Commit that first paragraph to memory, I was too lazy to type it, and could not have stated it as well as he did.

I water from below until the plants are big enough to dry the soil out on their own in a couple days. When the seedlings are tiny I water with a spray mister a couple times/day. Once I can confirm I've got plenty of roots in the bottom of the pot I give 90% of my water and nutes by setting them in a pan with a couple inches of water of water and let them suck it up for maybe 3 minutes, then remove it and let the excess drain. Requires a little frequent watering but you'll never overwater, and less prone to salt buildup. Once they get in their final pots and large enough to require watering every two days I pretty much give them as much as the soil will hold watering from above and below.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
Nice info, feeling like I should be able to let these plants get back on track. I don't have a soil ph probe, which is the best one for the money? I went to a couple garden centers and asked about them and they only has soil moisture meters. So I will obviously have to order one. My soil has dolomite lime, and I will assume I havnt vastly altered it, I have mostly just been waiting to see what happens. I may just start using my tapwater, but it is really really hard water. I have the old metal plumbing, would that be of any concern? And it seems I will still need the calmag, at least for my sativas. And blood meal, should I wait to top dress until the ones I flushed to dry back out? Or just start my nutes when they recover from overwatering, they are GH flora series, don't have the NPK in front of me at the moment.
 
Banana444

Banana444

Well-Known Member
I like the concept of the water from below, doest that make the plant work hard to get water? You should try that with one of those topsey turvy planters :). Oh and idk if that would still work, at the bott of those bags I broke up some volcanic rock to marble size plus some perlite for an inch to aid draining.
 
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