Clarification on what an R2 cross is?

PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
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But pj i honestly dont know what that would be called...they may qualify as F2's...they may also qualify as RIL...im not sure.im no authority i just wanted to help on the R2 thing cuz it was easy
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This example is clearly not straight forward. However I also question why you would possibly breed in that way? The fact that you created a S1 in the first pace presupposes that you found a special individual to breed with, so you created S1 seeds from it. At that point, why would you not BX the S1 with the P(1/2) in effort to stabilize the line, but instead cross to a different F1 from the same P1 generation? It doesn't make a lot of sense, however perhaps there is a reason.

That said, at that point in your example, I think I'd just consider it something of "open pollination", although that's not quite accurate either, since the pollination was specifically targeted for some reason.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
It's settled! Some stoner decided to use the term R1 so now it's scientific and needs to be recognized and accepted by the world.

Screw that. Too much stupid stuff coming from stoners that grow cannabis.
 
mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
This example is clearly not straight forward. However I also question why you would possibly breed in that way? The fact that you created a S1 in the first pace presupposes that you found a special individual to breed with, so you created S1 seeds from it. At that point, why would you not BX the S1 with the P(1/2) in effort to stabilize the line, but instead cross to a different F1 from the same P1 generation? It doesn't make a lot of sense, however perhaps there is a reason.

That said, at that point in your example, I think I'd just consider it something of "open pollination", although that's not quite accurate either, since the pollination was specifically targeted for some reason.
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These plants genetics are VERY maliable, pliable, and forgiving. This plant is great clay. Inbreeding depression doesn't really show until f5 or some mutation occurs so you can really dig deep into some sweat plant you like. And if you know my little drawing in correlation with chromosome heterosis, then ur golden. Breed any weird way you want.
 
A

ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
It's settled! Some stoner decided to use the term R1 so now it's scientific and needs to be recognized and accepted by the world.

Screw that. Too much stupid stuff coming from stoners that grow cannabis.
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Actually I would say some stoner saw the potential for confusion if they called it an S1, F1 or BX1 as none quite fit the bill so they came up with a term to keep it organized for future breeders. :roll:
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
These plants genetics are VERY maliable, pliable, and forgiving. This plant is great clay. Inbreeding depression doesn't really show until f5 or some mutation occurs so you can really dig deep into some sweat plant you like. And if you know my little drawing in correlation with chromosome heterosis, then ur golden. Breed any weird way you want.
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I'm about to do a little S1 and BX myself.

BX1: Gush Mints (https://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Gush_Mints/Purple_City_Genetics/) x Zev (sr71 purple kush x gush mints)
S1: Zev (sr71 purple kush x gush mints)

http://instagr.am/p/CiDVg1QrIO0/
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
Actually I would say some stoner saw the potential for confusion if they called it an S1, F1 or BX1 as none quite fit the bill so they came up with a term to keep it organized for future breeders. :roll:
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But why? Genetically there is no difference between a R1 and an F1, aside from identifying the parental generation as having one reversed parent.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
R1 is femminized bud...F1 is not. Its different genetically
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Not really, because you can cross a "R1" (female, obviously) with a F1 (male), and get both male and female offspring, just like you would if you cross two F1's.
 
A

ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
But why? Genetically there is no difference between a R1 and an F1, aside from identifying the parental generation as having one reversed parent.
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mudballs said:
R1 is femminized bud...F1 is not. Its different genetically
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An R1 like an S1 will always be female..

F1 is male or female.
--
side note, I'm impressed, 5 pages of debating and no one has attacked anyone yet :clap:bongsmilie
 
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mudballs

mudballs

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
Dude, the only difference between R1 and F1 is in the genetics of the parents. Once an "R1" is an individual, it can pass traits exactly the same as any F1 can. No difference whatsoever.
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The R1 has a recombination actually of 2 F1s, yes? There is a chance in the genetic segregation lottery that you will not produce a true F2 compatible F1 replicant in the make up of that R1. Things get weird fast.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
ALPHA.GanjaGuy said:
An R1 like an S1 will always be female..

F1 is male or female.
--
side note, I'm impressed, 5 pages of debating and no one has attacked anyone yet :clap:bongsmilie
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As you've noted, an F1 can be a female individual. Therefore there's no reason to assume that offspring from a female crossed with a reversed female would be anything other than F1.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
The R1 has a recombination actually of 2 F1s, yes? There is a chance in the genetic segregation lottery that you will not produce a true F2 compatible F1 replicant in the make up of that R1. Things get weird fast.
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Not necessarily, unless you tacitly assume that all plants are effectively F1's because they had parents.

Let's say that you had a pure indica female and a pure sativa female. You reverse one of them, and cross the two plants together. Aside from minor genetic variable differences, and the fact that all of the offspring will be female, how are said resulting offspring genetically any different than the offspring from a pure indica male and pure sativa female?
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
Bottom line is that R1 is not recognized in the scientific community and until it is it's just some naming made up by some stoner that chucked some pollen.

You can't just have a free for all and anyone just making terminology up. It needs to be vetted by others and a consensus formed. That's one of the problems with cannabis. So much stuff is just made up without any regard for science or following any scientific method. Next there will be C1, C2, etc... labeling on clones. C1 is the first clone, C2 is a clone of C1, and so forth. Just make stuff up as you go as it suits you.
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
mudballs said:
View attachment 5197660
But pj i honestly dont know what that would be called...they may qualify as F2's...they may also qualify as RIL...im not sure.im no authority i just wanted to help on the R2 thing cuz it was easy
Click to expand...
I figured it out. They would be called 2DR-BX (second-degree relative back-cross), since we're stoners and we just get to come up with new terminology. That said, 2DR-BX is quite a mouthful, so I say we just call them A1's (Aunt 1 -- since we're crossing offspring with it's Aunt)
 
PJ Diaz

PJ Diaz

Well-Known Member
xtsho said:
Bottom line is that R1 is not recognized in the scientific community and until it is it's just some naming made up by some stoner that chucked some pollen.

You can't just have a free for all and anyone just making terminology up. It needs to be vetted by others and a consensus formed. That's one of the problems with cannabis. So much stuff is just made up without any regard for science or following any scientific method. Next there will be C1, C2, etc... labeling on clones. C1 is the first clone, C2 is a clone of C1, and so forth. Just make stuff up as you go as it suits you.
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If you cross a C1 with a C2, do you get a C3?
 
A

ALPHA.GanjaGuy

Well-Known Member
PJ Diaz said:
As you've noted, an F1 can be a female individual. Therefore there's no reason to assume that offspring from a female crossed with a reversed female would be anything other than F1.
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Yes but wouldn't you at least like to have a heads up about the parental lineage if you were say planning to bread with that plant? hence why R1 is a good way to tell the difference?
 
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