cheap HPA pump

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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
The size and build quality doesnt look all that great, if you`re a gambling man it might be worth a punt ;)
 
BobMoses

BobMoses

Member
Lol yeah, I ordered it already... but it's going to take more than a month to arrive... I'll let you guys know if it works when I get it
 
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howdee

Active Member
They work very well. Use an external control for pressure, the mechanical switch is not reliable. Take out the switch and short the connections so it turns on when power is applied.
 
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howdee

Active Member
I picked one up for a backup to an 8800. The flow is pretty sad, never timed it but one gallon takes a couple, three, four minutes with no back-pressure. Pressure is excellent, one tefen on the outlet makes hydraulic look like AA. The cover to the diaphragm will leak and most likely crack from the pressure but it does work. Never bothered to check how much pressure it actually develops but it's up there. It is also quit noisy.
 
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howdee

Active Member
I miss-typed, it was two tefens directly on the outlet. They don't have a chance of matching the flow, but the throw is impressive at those pressures. The way the mist washed by the hole in the lid from 20 inches away reminded me of one of your videos looking down into an AA chamber. I'll see if i can dig up the fittings I used and record it.
 
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Atomizer

Well-Known Member
Most of the tefens i`ve seen have a fairly short, wide throw so it`ll be interesting to see a vid of a long throw. The AA nozzle in the 100L dustbin is the same as i use in the 650L rotary AA chamber.
 
BobMoses

BobMoses

Member
I had a crazy Idea, it would work for Atomizer's solution I think, of having a big accumulator tank to supply the HPA system for a while.
How about adapting a karcher to inject the solution into the pressurized tank? The smallest karchers will provide a pressure of 1000PSI, so you'll be easily able to get to the max pressure of the pressurized tank. I think all you need is an adapter like this one for the gun: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Karcher-pressure-washer-BAYONET-Snow-Foam-Lance-Adaptor-/321735350874?hash=item4ae8ebda5a:g:0k8AAOSw~FNUad9g
Lol, it might be crazy, but it could save the expense of buying a pump at all... That is, if you already have a Karcher lol...
 
LarsVegasNirvana

LarsVegasNirvana

Well-Known Member
I had the same idea you did and used one of these for my first HPA grow. After about 3 months the pressure switch failed (I think) and it stopped working. I ended up replacing it with an ulka espresso machine pump I found for $35 on ebay. Much quieter and I'm sure will also be more reliable since it was built in europe.

 
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freddy42

Member
Hey Lars
is that pump still functioning? is it noisy? how much of them are you using and for how many nozzles? Which nozzles are you using? thank you


LarsVegasNirvana said:
I had the same idea you did and used one of these for my first HPA grow. After about 3 months the pressure switch failed (I think) and it stopped working. I ended up replacing it with an ulka espresso machine pump I found for $35 on ebay. Much quieter and I'm sure will also be more reliable since it was built in europe.

Click to expand...
 
LarsVegasNirvana

LarsVegasNirvana

Well-Known Member
The espresso pump is still working fine, I've only had it for 2 months though. So far I like it. It doesn't prime itself if it's pumping against an already-full accumulator, but that's no big deal.

It makes noise but it's nowhere near as bad as the chinese pump. It sounds like someone running an espresso machine. Or like a "personal massager". They're also called vibratory pumps. It's just an AC solenoid oscillating back and forth at 60hz. I intentionally didn't put any foam soundproofing around it because then it would be completely silent, and I wouldn't notice if the res ran dry or the pump stopped working. It's a reassuring sound.

I have one of these and a small shurflo accumulator tank. Then I have a 200 mesh filter and then it splits off into 4 solenoid valves. I usually run 8-10 nozzles max per solenoid before the pressure starts to drop too fast to maintain the on-times I want (0.5-3 seconds usually). My arduino is set up to make sure that no two solenoids open at the same time so the pump has no idea that it really has 4x as many nozzles. This system can be expanded but I usually only use one or two solenoids indoors anyway.

I use these 3/4 gph plastic misters.

https://www.amazon.com/Mist-Nozzle-Plastic-Gph-Barb/dp/B00KISS9RU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480731760&sr=8-1&keywords=mist+nozzle+3/4
 
LarsVegasNirvana

LarsVegasNirvana

Well-Known Member
Anyway, to answer your original question it will work. You should probably invest in a backup pressure switch though, just in case it fails like mine did. I replaced the whole thing because of the sound issue though because that thing was seriously loud. I encased it in great-stuff foam, built a box around it lined with foam, and then put pillows and blankets over the whole thing. I could still hear it _outside_ my apartment. My neighbors must have thought I was running an air compressor 24/7.
 
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freddy42

Member
LarsVegasNirvana said:
The espresso pump is still working fine, I've only had it for 2 months though. So far I like it. It doesn't prime itself if it's pumping against an already-full accumulator, but that's no big deal.

It makes noise but it's nowhere near as bad as the chinese pump. It sounds like someone running an espresso machine. Or like a "personal massager". They're also called vibratory pumps. It's just an AC solenoid oscillating back and forth at 60hz. I intentionally didn't put any foam soundproofing around it because then it would be completely silent, and I wouldn't notice if the res ran dry or the pump stopped working. It's a reassuring sound.

I have one of these and a small shurflo accumulator tank. Then I have a 200 mesh filter and then it splits off into 4 solenoid valves. I usually run 8-10 nozzles max per solenoid before the pressure starts to drop too fast to maintain the on-times I want (0.5-3 seconds usually). My arduino is set up to make sure that no two solenoids open at the same time so the pump has no idea that it really has 4x as many nozzles. This system can be expanded but I usually only use one or two solenoids indoors anyway.

I use these 3/4 gph plastic misters.

https://www.amazon.com/Mist-Nozzle-Plastic-Gph-Barb/dp/B00KISS9RU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1480731760&sr=8-1&keywords=mist+nozzle+3/4
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Do you use any other pumps along with it ? I like the idea of expresso machine sound :D Do you have the plastic shurflo acumulator? is it enough big, I want to buy acumulator tank too, I was thinking about those bigger metal ones but if this would be enough then it would not be needed. Do you use branded solenoids or some from ebay? better said are they working without problems? I have seen some reviews where people depicted buying solenoids from china which broke after week of usage. Do you run like 1min off 3sec on or 4mins off 3sec on? Im searching about hpa for a long time, but I was always discouraged from it because of very high shipping prices,when it cames out to pumps. What would I give out to learn from you how to setup arduino like that? Do you also have some sensors there? I was talking to a guy who got arduino with hpa too he implemented to his arduino setup a flow rate meter/pressure transdcure, which according to him is a cool feature for better diagnostics. Thank you for the link on nozzles:) Do you have some pics or grow log of your setup ? What would I should give to have a setup like that:? I mean Im noobie when it comes to arduino, but I am willing to learn because its really exciting for me from the first moment I though of possibility to have a controlled setup by arduino . I know you spend probably lot of time, configuring the script for arduino, but I will ask you anyways is there any possibility that would under some circumstances share the script, or help me to configure it and tell me what arduino components are needed for it ? I would really appreciate any kind of help.
 
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freddy42

Member
LarsVegasNirvana said:
Anyway, to answer your original question it will work. You should probably invest in a backup pressure switch though, just in case it fails like mine did. I replaced the whole thing because of the sound issue though because that thing was seriously loud. I encased it in great-stuff foam, built a box around it lined with foam, and then put pillows and blankets over the whole thing. I could still hear it _outside_ my apartment. My neighbors must have thought I was running an air compressor 24/7.
Click to expand...
so that expresso pump was that loud, or the pressure switch made such a noise? I thought about exactly the same idea, maybe some styrofoam, or that foam which is used in studios + drywall box would be a good idea
 
LarsVegasNirvana

LarsVegasNirvana

Well-Known Member
The espresso pump is fine. It's the black chinese pump that you ordered that sucks. It was impossible to deal with. I was going to have to build a plywood box with acoustic wool blankets or something. Totally not worth it since that would cost way more than the espresso pump did. You probably do still want to wrap it with a bit of foam though. Walmart sells foam used for seat cushions in the sewing section that works pretty well.

Here is the pump I got:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NMNA138/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I don't have a grow log but I'm between grows right now and I'm going to start one as soon as I start up again. I'll link it here.

It's just the one pump. I don't even have a backup because I think this one will be reliable. I will probably buy a backup pressure switch though because the one I have is from china.

I have the plastic accumulator. It's totally fine. Although I would probably be ok with a larger one too. Just make sure if you get a bigger one you attach a T connector with a valve so you can empty the accumulator back into the reservoir every time you change the water. Otherwise you'll have like 4 gallons of old water stuck in the system that might take days to go through the misters.

Right now I'm at 0.25 seconds on and 4 minutes off, but this depends totally on the size and shape of your root chamber and the number of misters + their flow rate. I'm building a larger chamber this time so it will probably require longer on times. It needs to be long enough to completely fill the chamber with mist. It took me forever to figure out that I needed sub-second on times and almost 5 minute off times. I started out with 3 seconds on and 3 mins off. Total root rot! It might work fine with another setup, but not this one. You have to experiment wildly. I'm probably still not getting it dialed in perfectly. My next setup will have two identical chambers on separate solenoids with individual temperature control and spray timing for each root chamber. That way I can A/B test different conditions to see which one does better. Otherwise you're just guessing really.

I have tons of cool sensors but I'm not using most of them right now. I have a leaf turgidity sensor that measures when the plant actually needs water long before it actually gets drought stressed and wilts. You could control the spray times with this but for now I'm just using a timer. It's on my list of things to try though. It should allow me to save water and improve growth rates.

I have a heavy-duty steel-enclosed temp/humidity sensor from sensirion. I use it to control the atmosphere in my tent. The DHT-xx sensors didn't work for me. The small amounts of mist in the air eventually corroded them. It's well worth the extra money because you'll spend at least that much replacing the cheap ones.

I use a bunch of solid state relays to control a humidifier, the exhaust fan for the tent, the root zone cooling system, and eventually I'm going to hook up a bunch of peristaltic pumps so I can automatically dose pH up and down as well as liquid ferts. I have the pH sensor but I had some problems with bio-film messing the readings up so I put it on the back burner.

The root zone is cooled by a peltier junction (thermoelectric cooler) and a heatsink and a bunch of parts for water-cooling computers. It's not as efficient as a big compressor-based aquarium chiller, but it's quieter and definitely cheaper to put together. I think maybe $100 worth of parts. Before I got the chiller even with the AC cranked so the tent was 75F, the roots were still overheating and dying. Once I sorted the root temps out it was smooth sailing. Now they can tolerate low-80's in the canopy without any issues at all.

I used a 400w induction light last time, this time I'm going to add a couple white-led panels to up the wattage so I can do a v-scrog in my 5x5.
 
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