Certainty thought experiment.

Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Here is a thought experiment, I attempted to put it in the most simple way I could.
Try to remember that all beliefs and ideas I speak of in this thought experiment are strictly Metaphysical.




A belief is an idea we think is true.
(An idea that holds the possibility of being true, yet subject to doubt)


Certainty is thinking an idea is true, without doubt.
(An idea we are certain is true, without doubt)


Therefor certainty is belief without doubt.


But wait... what if it is possible to doubt a certainty?
What if I try it right now?
What if I take my idea that I feel certain of... and just doubt it?
Doubt it for even just one second?
What did we just do?
...We (for that second) instantly changed our certainty, back into belief...



Therefor certainty is simply belief pretending that doubt does not exist...



...but we can doubt it, we just did, and that leaves us with a choice to make doesn't it?


If there is such thing as some sort of special wall to keep us from doubting,
I'll give you one guess on who constructed it, built it, maintains it and keeps the fortifications from collapsing.





All feedback and criticisms are encouraged
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Good OP, Z. I used to think that my certainty absolutely reflected what occurred IRL, and it is a real wake up call to experience the fact that what you may be certain of doesn't reflect reality AT ALL. Now, certainty for me is just a matter of degrees: I'm most certain of facts like the sun will rise and set tomorrow and if I drop something it will fall to the ground. But we know that there is a small probability that even these things will not occur. So the arrogance that one's certainty is infallible truly belongs only to one realm...
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Zaehet Strife said:
Here is a thought experiment, I attempted to put it in the most simple way I could.
Try to remember that all beliefs and ideas I speak of in this thought experiment are strictly Metaphysical.




A belief is an idea we think is true.
(An idea that holds the possibility of being true, yet subject to doubt)


Certainty is thinking an idea is true, without doubt.
(An idea we are certain is true, without doubt)


Therefor certainty is belief without doubt.


But wait... what if it is possible to doubt a certainty?
What if I try it right now?
What if I take my idea that I feel certain of... and just doubt it?
Doubt it for even just one second?
What did we just do?
...We (for that second) instantly changed our certainty, back into belief...



Therefor certainty is simply belief pretending that doubt does not exist...



...but we can doubt it, we just did, and that leaves us with a choice to make doesn't it?


If there is such thing as some sort of special wall to keep us from doubting,
I'll give you one guess on who constructed it, built it, maintains it and keeps the fortifications from collapsing.





All feedback and criticisms are encouraged
Click to expand...
If the possibility of doubt exists, you were never actually certain in the first place. People use the term certain when they shouldn't. There is a difference between the illusion of certainty and real certainty.

I think this speaks to your point, certainty, in reality, doesn't actually exist.

I might go as far to say I'm certain that somewhere in the universe, an electron is orbiting a nucleus of an atom.
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
Just out of curiousity,,what about the idea of uncertainty being a certainty in itself?I mean,arent we bound to doubt any idea to some degree when contemplating it in a logical manner,Or do we arrive at a realization to where logic points at certainty of uncertainty as an invalid paradox?My thought would be that uncertainty is a certainty,Just wondering what you guys think about it.
 
Dr.J20

Dr.J20

Well-Known Member
I think there are some clarifications that complicate this a bit. First, I think your thought experiment demonstrates an instantaneous (rather than instant) moment of doubting a certainty.
Second, I think the general thrust of the commentary is built upon clever wordplay: To doubt something is not merely to declare that you doubt it. It is to contemplate the proverbial premises, the essential core of that thing. It is the quintessential "picking-apart." It is the sincere questioning of the veracity of one or more of the foundational aspects of an object of analysis.
Third, I think there is a general confusion of the existential timbre of the concept of "certainty." Certainty is not like a hammer--you cannot grasp the one in the same way as the other. Certainty, as a concept, is, by definition, an abstraction. The same is true of doubt. The things about which one says one is certain can be infinitely doubted because the same consciousness that asserts certainty, asserts doubt. Thus, the term "certainty" refers to a state of consciousness in which doubt is not asserted by the consciousness in any way. Were one to consciously turn one's mind to doubting that which one once naturally felt certain, naturally, doubt would begin to reveal the cracks beneath which convects belief.
But, of course, at the root of any truth is merely a strongly held belief, masquerading about an individual consciousness as a certainty.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Dr.J20 said:
I think there are some clarifications that complicate this a bit. First, I think your thought experiment demonstrates an instantaneous (rather than instant) moment of doubting a certainty.
Second, I think the general thrust of the commentary is built upon clever wordplay: To doubt something is not merely to declare that you doubt it. It is to contemplate the proverbial premises, the essential core of that thing. It is the quintessential "picking-apart." It is the sincere questioning of the veracity of one or more of the foundational aspects of an object of analysis.
Third, I think there is a general confusion of the existential timbre of the concept of "certainty." Certainty is not like a hammer--you cannot grasp the one in the same way as the other. Certainty, as a concept, is, by definition, an abstraction. The same is true of doubt. The things about which one says one is certain can be infinitely doubted because the same consciousness that asserts certainty, asserts doubt. Thus, the term "certainty" refers to a state of consciousness in which doubt is not asserted by the consciousness in any way. Were one to consciously turn one's mind to doubting that which one once naturally felt certain, naturally, doubt would begin to reveal the cracks beneath which convects belief.
But, of course, at the root of any truth is merely a strongly held belief, masquerading about an individual consciousness as a certainty.
Click to expand...
Beautiful.
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
Certainty is truth.

A belief is the truth we think is in an idea

Beliefs and ideas are concepts of the ego to avoid the certainty of truth.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Scroga said:
Certainty is truth.

A belief is the truth we think is in an idea

Beliefs and ideas are concepts of the ego to avoid the certainty of truth.
Click to expand...
Some people are certain that reality is a simulation... although it may not be. Some are certain that if you are a homosexual, you will burn in hell for all of eternity... although that may not be the case.

Just because people are certain of something, does not mean it is the truth...
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
But they can't be truly certain.. An uncertain certain..therefore not truly certain at all..
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
Scroga said:
But they can't be truly certain.
Click to expand...
Neither can you, or anyone else for that matter, because doubt exists. Unless you pretend you are certain, unless you pretend that doubt does not exist. Unless you actively ignore the concept of doubt, or infinite possibility.

If you want to skip right into the juicy part, why not tell me a metaphysical belief that you are certain of?
 
MojoRison

MojoRison

Well-Known Member
I was certain that I knew the words I wanted to type but the unpredictability of my thought process being bombarded by a constant stream of stimuli pervades my consciousness resulting in what may seem to be a coherent word structure.
 
Zaehet Strife

Zaehet Strife

Well-Known Member
MojoRison said:
I was certain that I knew the words I wanted to type but the unpredictability of my thought process being bombarded by a constant stream of stimuli pervades my consciousness resulting in what may seem to be a coherent word structure.
Click to expand...
Hehehehehehee!
 
Scroga

Scroga

Well-Known Member
I feel doubt is a manifestation of confliction between the ego and self,a form of fear..ego tool
 
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