CANNA QUESTION, LUCAS Form., FNB, watering

bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
My clones are 10 days out of humidity, moving slow and kind of pale. look like they need more nutes. I am feeding them daily right now till they fill up the pots, about 30mL a day of water+nutes. i am also concerened about salt build ups tho with no run off. right now i gave them no nutes for 1 week, i started given them 1/4tsp of FNG, 1/4 tsp floralicious plus, and some superthrive. They still arent responding.
The ppms for the solution has been about 660, starting water is 160, so 500.

I hit 2 of my 15 tonight with 800ppms, 1tsp of FNG with same adds as previous, to see if i see some change.

everything is PH 6.0

Tonight i found this post from lucas on ICmag.com:
2ml/gal FNB every irrigation, or 6ml every 3rd irrigation
> much FloraNovaBloom is needed to equal Canna's Coco Bloom forumula?

about 2ml/gallon of FNB

> I just don't want to run into silly deficiencies... (btw - I am making the switch to B'Cuzz coco mix)

Canna is notorious for Mg deficiency, and the recommend adding epsom. FNB will not be Mg deficient.

disclaimer
coco has issues with locking up P and K , canna coco comes preloaded with extra P and K, I dont know if BCuzz is different in that regard

but, yes, you can feed with 2ml/gal of FNB at EVERY irrigation,and it will not cause deficiency (or you can water with plain water every 2 irrigations, then on the 3rd watering use 6ml/gal FNB

there may be other coco specific problems related to overwatering, but, you can certainly use FNB with Coco

Lucas

i think i am gonna go with this solution for the rest of this run.

WHAT IS EVERYONE THOUGHTS/EXSPERIENCES>?
is 2ml a gallon of just FNB, every watering with run off good for the rest of the grow>?
 

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snutter

snutter

Well-Known Member
bigbillyboy05 said:
bump, anyone have any ideas or thoughts.
Click to expand...

I use the lucas formula using general Hydroponics Flora Micro and Flora Bloom:

For Vegetative:
I use 5ml/gal water Micro
and
10ml/gal water Bloom

However, on my younger plants (like yours) I use only half strength. This seems to be fine as they are growing like weeds....Excuse the pun.....and doing very well.

After 3 weeks to 1 month I will bump them up to regular strength. My older plants are on regular strength and are so healthy, I just couldn't be happier.

For flowering I will use lucas formula:
8ml/gal water Micro
and
16ml/gal water Bloom

I guess what I am saying is that this is such a simple formula using two of General Hydroponics's products (Flora Micro and Flora Bloom) with excellent success, that I recommend new growers trying it.

In the beginning of my first grow, I tried all kinds of different things like you are doing and plants suffered to the point of almost dieing. Nothing seemed to work. That's when I found the Lucas Formula and switched to it. Since then, no problems and beautiful plants.

One other thought: I'm not sure how much super thrive you gave your plants, but that stuff is SUPER POWERFUL! I don't think it should be used on such young plants. I use ONE CAP-FULL per 12 gallons of water on my adult plants. They love it. :-)

Also, for my plants I keep my PH at 5.3 to 5.5. I do a hydroponic DWC system.

I am growing White Rhino. Here's a picture of 2 my plants. The plant on the left is one that I was experimenting with trying different things (before I discovered lucas formula). The one on the right was switched to Lucas Formula and use to look like the one on the left. Also, the one on the left is on Lucas Formula now, and looks almost better than the the other nowadays!!!

-Snut
 

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bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
snutter said:
I use the lucas formula using general Hydroponics Flora Micro and Flora Bloom:

For Vegetative:
I use 5ml/gal water Micro
and
10ml/gal water Bloom

However, on my younger plants (like yours) I use only half strength. This seems to be fine as they are growing like weeds....Excuse the pun.....and doing very well.

After 3 weeks to 1 month I will bump them up to regular strength. My older plants are on regular strength and are so healthy, I just couldn't be happier.

For flowering I will use lucas formula:
8ml/gal water Micro
and
16ml/gal water Bloom

I guess what I am saying is that this is such a simple formula using two of General Hydroponics's products (Flora Micro and Flora Bloom) with excellent success, that I recommend new growers trying it.

In the beginning of my first grow, I tried all kinds of different things like you are doing and plants suffered to the point of almost dieing. Nothing seemed to work. That's when I found the Lucas Formula and switched to it. Since then, no problems and beautiful plants.

One other thought: I'm not sure how much super thrive you gave your plants, but that stuff is SUPER POWERFUL! I don't think it should be used on such young plants. I use ONE CAP-FULL per 12 gallons of water on my adult plants. They love it. :-)

Also, for my plants I keep my PH at 5.3 to 5.5. I do a hydroponic DWC system.

I am growing White Rhino. Here's a picture of 2 my plants. The plant on the left is one that I was experimenting with trying different things (before I discovered lucas formula). The one on the right was switched to Lucas Formula and use to look like the one on the left. Also, the one on the left is on Lucas Formula now, and looks almost better than the the other nowadays!!!

-Snut
Click to expand...
I only use 1 drop per gallon, no more : ). what i posted before was a response from luca's in regards to coco, feed 2ml of bloom every watering or 6ml every 3rd, r/o water i between. I think im going for it with 2mL of FNB every feeding, increase from there. I gotta get these guys big enough for run off tho otherwise im gonna have problems in a couple weeks. I think the reason for this, is because nutes DO build up in coco, this is why u need run off. YOU SOLD ME. im going for lucas method in coco.

but you do agree these guys look deficient?
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
Lucas Method w/ flora nova bloom.

0-5-10(VEG)flora line = 5mL of FNB
0-8-16(FLW)flora line=8mL of FNB

so i was correct, you say you use half of the veg str for clones my size, which would equal 2.5ml of floranova. i am gonna go 2ml of floranova bloom every watering from today on, and hopefully i have some exsplosive growth, i dont wanna veg for any longer then 1 month, and im on week 2 now.

Any other thoughts...? COMON PEOPLE : )
 
the church man

the church man

Well-Known Member
i've been using that formula this grow. simply amazing.

just so you know... lucas formula only corresponds to flowering. there is no veg formula. he recommends using the GH veg formula as is on the bottle for vegetating. so that'd be 15-10-5. then for flowering his formula for HID lighting is 0-8-16. the 0-5-10 that you guys are referring to is the fluorescent light formula. this is what i'm using...


if you'd like to know more about the lucas formula i suggest that you google "ask lucas". it the first hit and is packed full of amazing information. i hope that helps you
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
the church man said:
i've been using that formula this grow. simply amazing.

just so you know... lucas formula only corresponds to flowering. there is no veg formula. he recommends using the GH veg formula as is on the bottle for vegetating. so that'd be 15-10-5. then for flowering his formula for HID lighting is 0-8-16. the 0-5-10 that you guys are referring to is the fluorescent light formula. this is what i'm using...


if you'd like to know more about the lucas formula i suggest that you google "ask lucas". it the first hit and is packed full of amazing information. i hope that helps you
Click to expand...
Yes mine are under floros right now, but will be moved to 600w HPS in a week, are you in coco church? checkin out ask lucas now.
 
the church man

the church man

Well-Known Member
i'm in a rockwool cube and hydroton. only issues have been algae on the rockwool (solved by making a simple cover) and rinsing the hydroton thoroughly
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
the church man said:
i'm in a rockwool cube and hydroton. only issues have been algae on the rockwool (solved by making a simple cover) and rinsing the hydroton thoroughly
Click to expand...
so your 8ml a gallon every watering huh? coco does hold on to nutrients in salt form tho, right now im gonna go 2mL of floranova bloom every watering, suggested by lucas, but now i guess he says to use flora nova bloom. but im stickin with the bloom. see how it goes.
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
There is no reason to use both GH Veg and Bloom. The Lucas formula of Micro and Bloom at a 1:2 ratio is fine for veg and bllom both. The FloraNova is just the standar Lucas formula with some humus acid dissloved and then balanced with a bit of additional potash. Really though the Flora Nova is likely beneficial only to those growers with an organic medium such as you. For those with no media (aero tubes, atomizer chambers) or inert media (hydroton, perlite etc) there is no advanatge to the Flora Nova as the chelates perform all the functions of making the nutrients availabe even without the humus. For chemical nutrient users with inert media humus will catually cause more problems than benefits. Remember, the way to tell when Nutrient manafacturer marketers are lying is their lips move. There is some advantage to GH hardwater Micro and that is its use with vegging plants that are grown under flourescents because it contains added Ammonium Nitrate. Ammonium Nitrate is more readily taken up by plants under low light than other non ammonium nitrogen sources.
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
fatman7574 said:
There is no reason to use both GH Veg and Bloom. The Lucas formula of Micro and Bloom at a 1:2 ratio is fine for veg and bllom both. The FloraNova is just the standar Lucas formula with some humus acid dissloved and then balanced with a bit of additional potash. Really though the Flora Nova is likely beneficial only to those growers with an organic medium such as you. For those with no media (aero tubes, atomizer chambers) or inert media (hydroton, perlite etc) there is no advanatge to the Flora Nova as the chelates perform all the functions of making the nutrients availabe even without the humus. For chemical nutrient users with inert media humus will catually cause more problems than benefits. Remember, the way to tell when Nutrient manafacturer marketers are lying is their lips move. There is some advantage to GH hardwater Micro and that is its use with vegging plants that are grown under flourescents because it contains added Ammonium Nitrate. Ammonium Nitrate is more readily taken up by plants under low light than other non ammonium nitrogen sources.
Click to expand...
excellent, thats is perfect to know. So would you guys say that 2mL a water is the lucas coco formula. On his post he said 6mL every 3rd watering, or 2mL every watering. This is because salt build up in coco. From what i can collect the more nutrients you use every watering, the more you need to flush every water.
 
the church man

the church man

Well-Known Member
i vegged under GH 3 part, using approximately 12-8-4 (Grow-micro-bloom). to transition into flowering i have begun to add the bloom formula (0-5-10) to my addback water for my res. using the lucas formula i have been able to keep my res at ppm of 850-950 and pH of 5.5-6. i haven't used ph down or up in a month. when my res water level drops by a gallon i addback a gallon of water and just enough nutes to bring my ppm's back to where they need to be. when my ppm's are in the correct range i automatically know that my pH is also in that range.

i don't have any experience with coco so i won't be able to help there.

thanks for the info on the hardwater GH nutes. don't they also have less calcium in them too?
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
MICRO BLOOM GROW HWMICRO
NO3 Nitrate 4.7% 0.00% 1.75% 3.7%
NH4 Ammoniacal 0.3% 0.00% 0.25% 0.3%
NH2 Urea 0.00% 0.00% 0.00% 1.0%
Total N 5.00% 0.00% 2.00% 5.00%
P (as P2O5) 0.00% 5.00% 1.00% 0.00%
K (as K2O) 1.00% 4.00% 6.00% 1.00%
Mg 0.00% 1.50% 0.50% 0.00%
S 0.00% 1.00% 0.00% 0.00%
Ca 5.00% 0.00% 0.00% 0.10%
Fe 0.10% o.oo% 0.00% 0.1%
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
fatman do you have coco experiance? what would you say for feeding with flora nova?? i just transplanted them today, and i am feeding flora nova bloom, 2ml, every feeding. this sound good or?
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
bigbillyboy05 said:
fatman do you have coco experiance? what would you say for feeding with flora nova?? i just transplanted them today, and i am feeding flora nova bloom, 2ml, every feeding. this sound good or?
Click to expand...

It will work fine but at a high cost. Flora Bloom is just GH 1 part micro, 2 parts bloom with some acid digested humus added along with some potash to balance the pH to allow a concentrate without a lot of precipitation. It is however less concentarted than buying theit two part formulations. It (the humus) really only provides a minimal amount of benefit when used with orgainic fertilizers that do not contain chelates. The fertilizer however already contains chelates so really it is more marketing hype than anything else. When one charges huge amounts for their products they tend to go to any lentgh to try to appear as if they are providing the newest and best even if it means actually selling a product that is more expensive but no better than their original product that already sells well. Its called greed and unethical business practices.

The major benefits of humus come from it providing absorption and therefore nutrient and water storage ability to a to a soi that is otherwise just fine rock powder. Digested humus does not provide that. Like I said it otherwise just provides the actions of incerasing the uptake ability of some micronutreients, but that is more readily accomplished through use of chelates.

Essentailly you are just paying a hefty mark up for having premixed Lucas formula provided in one jug instead of two. for that advantage of not nedding tow jugs of bloom for every single jug of micro youpaying a premium but alsoget some acid digested humus that is basically of no use to your plants as they are getting good nutrient uptale already though use of chelated micro nutrients.

How do you know when a nutrient manfacturers marketer is lying? His/her lips move.
 
bigbillyboy05

bigbillyboy05

Active Member
fatman7574 said:
It is just GH 1 part micro, 2 parts bloom with some acid digested humus added along with some potash to babalce the pH to allow a concentrate without a lot of precipitation. It realy only provides a minimal amount of beb nefit when used with orgainic fertilizers that do not contain chelates. the fertilizer however alrady contains chelates so realy it is more marketing hype than anything else.

The major benefits of humus come from it providing absorption and therefore nutrient and water storage ability to a to a soi that is otherwise just fine rock powder. Digested humus does not provide that. Like I said it otherwise just provides the actions of incerasing the uptake ability of some micronutreients, but that is more readily accomplished through use of chelates.

Essentailly you are just paying a hefty mark up for having premixed Lucas formula provided in one jug instead of two. for that advantage of not nedding tow jugs of bloom for every single jug of micro youpaying a premium but alsoget some acid digested humus that is basically of no use to your plants as they are getting good nutrient uptale already though use of chelated micro nutrients.
Click to expand...
well now i feel stupid. i still gotta use it tho, what you recommend strength wise for daily watering??
 
fatman7574

fatman7574

New Member
bigbillyboy05 said:
well now i feel stupid. i still gotta use it tho, what you recommend strength wise for daily watering??
Click to expand...


Half the dose the manafacturer suggests but given twice as often. As long as you have a well draining medium then less more often is always more beneficial than a lot less often. Plants really do not like high concentrations as much as a medium concentration. Plants tend to take up more nutrients at a medium EC than at a high EC.
 
B

bcbuddon

Member
i dont know what your asking but it sounds like your overwatering them and thats why there not responding everyday is way too much when there young like that you gotta let them dry out just a little so that they grow roots in search of water this will boost your growth
 
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