Can Abiotic stress Elicitors make a difference (lets say yes)

BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
harrythehat said:
Man i reckon your spot on about the lights and its proven.
BBQ also has a relevant point that should not be missed.
"I move you all form a more agriculture cannabis based board not one that can't even get soil right and where advertising tells you what to say not experience."
Soil is a nightmare product to grow plants in. So so many variants and problems the book is that thick me feet dont touch the floor if i sit on it.
Here's a thought.
Should forums be split into the many different soil types to give peeps a chance to get it right as what you do in one soil you may not do in another.

Hydroponics is a different kettle and sings from one song sheet. Got a problem. Change the nutrient Problem solved. (pretty much).
Again it's got a bad reputation from idiots who do not now how to use it. Or have built a system wrongly and it does not work so NO HYDROPONICS WORKS and that rep has got around.

Unfortunately we will never change advertisers or advertising. Once growers realise NPK grows plants and pretty coloured bottles do not, then we may start getting somewhere.
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Soil moreover peat is very easy to grow in.

If you have some proof and study of this electo water and documented effects I can give you a thumbs up or not.

If your at the start of something you don't quite understand give up, just spending more time learning or refining growing, as boring as it is, will serve you better in the long run.

If your trying to peer review you have to submit papers and hope your work is tried by others, do not ask cannabis growers, their record of getting something right is so bad they once thought half the watts of purple light out grew everything else by a factor of two.

I engaged on this site but found there are not many who grow seriously, it's more a place to chat and buy lights and stuff.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
harrythehat said:
Can see this is getting your grey matter moving. Theory for the system I built came from a way back in history. Like 3500 years ago. It was the worlds first hydroponic system and got forgot about. This was the Hanging gardens of Babylon. It has a technique in hydroponics that got lost.
I renamed this Nutrient Trickling Technique.
N.T.T
How does it differ.
HGB was a staircase. roots will not follow a staircase they leave air gaps
water will flow wherever, running over all the surfaces. When running over the roots it builds friction. Friction builds static fact!. Hence why your gas and water pipes are earthed.
found after building the system and because of how it is built. it is also a static generator.
How much static is built, do not have a scooby do. Would think your picture of that young girls hair standing, could be too much. How do you measure static? Its only positive and i dont have a meter for it.
Do know if you get it wrong static will decimate the roots, done it myself reconfiguring the system so drew this as words can be confusing.
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so I guess this (or the other types like electro-culture) electro-magentic field influence the way ions can be mobilized & absorbed by the roots, which use these powers too to draw ions towards them, not only osmosis.
Yes it is as you write - the fine-tuning of the system is imperative, otherwise it'll give negative results.
Electroculture.jpg
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
That control is fucked, all should be similar to the best one not half of them I'll formed and stressed.
 
Kassiopeija

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
That control is fucked, all should be similar to the best one not half of them I'll formed and stressed.
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You can go ahead and look over the methods of this study by yourself, and I find it quite precise. Are you actually trying to imply that if you place 25 seeds in a soil that all of these seeds sprout at the very same time? Not to my experience, sometimes it takes a week or more. Some of the underlying mechanisms which may be responsible for the increased germ rate are also discussed in the study, plus EC is actually in discussion because it is known historically to cause this.
 

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harrythehat

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
so I guess this (or the other types like electro-culture) electro-magentic field influence the way ions can be mobilized & absorbed by the roots, which use these powers too to draw ions towards them, not only osmosis.
Yes it is as you write - the fine-tuning of the system is imperative, otherwise it'll give negative results.
View attachment 4811824
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Its a difficult experiment in soil though you can see some difference and the tickle appears at a very low current. soon as it goes up it starts slowing growth fine tuning is imperative in soil, with water and what I am doing it's there. no way to regulate and how much is there, could be quite expensive to find out, as its freakin high voltage unlike the micro voltage of DC. found this https://www.simco-ion.co.uk/static-control/static-measuring-instruments Still don't know whether these would work as the static is being used as it is being produced, not held on a surface as such.

There are other experiments on hemp going back to the 1890s using a 14 foot x 4 copper plate and a zinc plate of similar size embed in the soil and connected over a distance (that was not stated) making a galvanic cell, this apparently gave a 25% increase to the harvest. Would love to do a field size and see. Pending area covered how many plants etc it could be a worthy addition to a hemp farmers tool caddy.
 
H

harrythehat

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
Soil moreover peat is very easy to grow in.

If you have some proof and study of this electo water and documented effects I can give you a thumbs up or not.

If your at the start of something you don't quite understand give up, just spending more time learning or refining growing, as boring as it is, will serve you better in the long run.

If your trying to peer review you have to submit papers and hope your work is tried by others, do not ask cannabis growers, their record of getting something right is so bad they once thought half the watts of purple light out grew everything else by a factor of two.

I engaged on this site but found there are not many who grow seriously, it's more a place to chat and buy lights and stuff.
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Perhaps a note to site management may get some different medium threads for soil growers it would be worthy.

Over the years have learnt a great deal about what I am doing do I understand it Yes believe so to an extent (fuck me this worx).
There is plenty of documented evidence of electro study and No am not looking for your thumbs up, Thanx. Just don't need your abuse as it is very ill conceived and child like your welcome to engage and you will get a serious conversation here.
Your spot on with others records its not hard to see why though with the amount of different factors involved in soil and hydro.
Given one thing that is relatively foolproof would be interesting to collate how they got on with a sample of say a 100 growers all using the same kit.
When ready for a peer review it will get one don't worry about that.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
harrythehat said:
Perhaps a note to site management may get some different medium threads for soil growers it would be worthy.

Over the years have learnt a great deal about what I am doing do I understand it Yes believe so to an extent (fuck me this worx).
There is plenty of documented evidence of electro study and No am not looking for your thumbs up, Thanx. Just don't need your abuse as it is very ill conceived and child like your welcome to engage and you will get a serious conversation here.
Your spot on with others records its not hard to see why though with the amount of different factors involved in soil and hydro.
Given one thing that is relatively foolproof would be interesting to collate how they got on with a sample of say a 100 growers all using the same kit.
When ready for a peer review it will get one don't worry about that.
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Considering this is easy to do and generate on roots why do you suppose we are not using it already?

There are reasons we didn't add UV to hids there's reason for everything, the same reason still exists today.
 
BBQtoast

BBQtoast

Well-Known Member
Kassiopeija said:
You can go ahead and look over the methods of this study by yourself, and I find it quite precise. Are you actually trying to imply that if you place 25 seeds in a soil that all of these seeds sprout at the very same time? Not to my experience, sometimes it takes a week or more. Some of the underlying mechanisms which may be responsible for the increased germ rate are also discussed in the study, plus EC is actually in discussion because it is known historically to cause this.
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No just looked like the worst control ever, I'm not reading it, just manufacture it and I'll read the instructions when we're all buying it and getting 30% extra.
 
Dr. Who

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
@Kassiopeija

I find the whole thing interesting. Like the OP and Kass has said. This is an old science of a sort.
I looked at A cpl of these experiment's while in college. I wasn't terribly impressed but, what @harrythehat says and is doing. Is rather interesting.

I might like to see plants a bit more developed at 5 weeks but we haven't seen the finish yet either.

To me, operating at a commercial level. I find the idea of further reduction of basic electrical cost? As very interesting.
This may lead to some experimenting outside the production ops.

@BBQtoast

Now then. To boldly say that LED lack's relevance against 1 K HID is simply childish. I bought an HLG, and a custom built "HLG COPY" that out preforms both the HLG board and my normal 1 K HID's in Jupiter 6 hoods (delivers over 20% more reflected light then other hoods).

Hung the 2 LED boards on opposing rows, at opposite ends in one of the commercial bloom rooms and found that the Custom board beat both of the others for bud size and density of the end product. Yes, I have to run a shorter plant with the LED's but, make up for it in the resulting improvements.
Did I mention that I'm saving $300 per month, per bloom room!

I had to shift from central air to Mini splits but, in the long run I'm saving because the units are 240 volt and inverter tech.

Tell me please, how am I going to get more from returning to your almighty HID?

In the end? NOTHING BEATS THE SUN...

harry? Keep us up to date and I want to see more as these grow please.
 
H

harrythehat

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
@Kassiopeija

I find the whole thing interesting. Like the OP and Kass has said. This is an old science of a sort.
I looked at A cpl of these experiment's while in college. I wasn't terribly impressed but, what @harrythehat says and is doing. Is rather interesting.

I might like to see plants a bit more developed at 5 weeks but we haven't seen the finish yet either.

To me, operating at a commercial level. I find the idea of further reduction of basic electrical cost? As very interesting.
This may lead to some experimenting outside the production ops.

@BBQtoast

Now then. To boldly say that LED lack's relevance against 1 K HID is simply childish. I bought an HLG, and a custom built "HLG COPY" that out preforms both the HLG board and my normal 1 K HID's in Jupiter 6 hoods (delivers over 20% more reflected light then other hoods).

Hung the 2 LED boards on opposing rows, at opposite ends in one of the commercial bloom rooms and found that the Custom board beat both of the others for bud size and density of the end product. Yes, I have to run a shorter plant with the LED's but, make up for it in the resulting improvements.
Did I mention that I'm saving $300 per month, per bloom room!

I had to shift from central air to Mini splits but, in the long run I'm saving because the units are 240 volt and inverter tech.

Tell me please, how am I going to get more from returning to your almighty HID?

In the end? NOTHING BEATS THE SUN...

harry? Keep us up to date and I want to see more as these grow please.
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Thanks for the input being a commercial grower and putting some sense into the LED skirmish, Just a couple of different types show there's a way to go yet. I think LED once fully dialled in has huge potential as an Elicitor because the light will be much different from the sun. Is the sun actually better?. That will be found out later.
Yes Old, this technology is Ancient to be precise. Did they know when they built the HGB it was an Elicitor. The other thing was it left behind on purpose for man to discover its secret?.
Fuck it really going out on a limb. Did man actually build HGB or was it Ancient aliens?. Yes you've guessed it am a believer.
tomorrow is 6 weeks will put a pic or maybe a short vid.
Even with this grow being a cock up am more than pleased with what I am seeing and cannot wait to restart and show how static really worx.
 
MidnightSun72

MidnightSun72

Well-Known Member
you said you went away from cloning and now go to seeds? How are you supposed to determine how the electrostatic therapy is working if it's not the same genetics over and over? Your yields could vary drastically seed to seed.
 
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harrythehat

Well-Known Member
MidnightSun72 said:
you said you went away from cloning and now go to seeds? How are you supposed to determine how the electrostatic therapy is working if it's not the same genetics over and over? Your yields could vary drastically seed to seed.
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With the right facilities around me i would clone but In the UK find it easier to use seeds yes there's a bit of variation but only producing for me an me M8s so not too worried. I know the therapy is working so do me M8s. One thing i wont bother to do is run a dwc or nft alongside as its just a waste of light.
 
Jjgrow420

Jjgrow420

Well-Known Member
harrythehat said:
Hi Your right spot on and answered with decency rather than idiocy. Yes have jumped the gun a bit, (one of the troubles with being Bipolar) have used this system many times probably 100 ish crops and know pretty much what it will do and will show good for the little amount of wattage over it.
Photographs are deceptive and dont really give a true picture.
Unfortunately have moved away from clones favouring seeds, next crop will be done from seedlings day one on the system
Can see your intelligent to that I give intelligent answers. Dickheads get the fuck off treatment.
Thank you for your input. Hopefully others will read and it may help the DHs.
The Hat.
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You added 2 zeros to your crop count by accident
 
H

harrythehat

Well-Known Member
BBQtoast said:
Considering this is easy to do and generate on roots why do you suppose we are not using it already?

There are reasons we didn't add UV to hids there's reason for everything, the same reason still exists today.
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"Considering this is easy to do and generate on roots why do you suppose we are not using it already?"
Simple
You have not sussed out how too yet and for too many reasons. WHY! am not showing you how too. Will show you the results of using it even though, Know your not suitably impressed as yet, the end of this grow may be a little impressive if it strikes what I suspect around 2.5 grams per watt. From that what I feel is a possibility is 4 grams per watt.
Slate me for my words if you wish but you may be eating them later.
Plenty of reasons for the move to LED apart from the fact there better than the rest in my eyes.
Was not able to reach optimum yield from 2 x 600 HPS, wont put up some of my yields cos you will turn round and say bollocks.
Best is to wait till the end of this then see if its worth you watching the next.
 
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