Can a wetting agent damage your plants?

J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I just started using a wetting agent in nutrient feedings after doing some reading it seemed like a good move. I then used the wetting agent with azamax to increase the effectiveness in a spray application at the suggested rate of 36 drops per liter. I let them fully dry for about an hour outside of the grow tent away from the HPS and the next day almost all of my large fan leaves have shriveled into crispy curls and the plants appear doomed.

This was week 4 of flower so it really is a bum deal but I was hoping somebody could help advise me for certain whether or not the wetting agent may be the definitive culprit here? 36 drops seems too much for only 1 liter, but this wetting agent stuff is new to me.

thanks in advance.
 
cannaculturalist

cannaculturalist

Well-Known Member
It really depends on the product. Some are only suitable for soil applications, and help by breaking the hydrophobic nature of the medium, allowing moisture to better be absorbed by the particles and distributed through the media. Some can be used as part of a foliar application, by using them as a suffocant, which similarly breaks the waxy cuticle of the leaf (which is hydrophobic) to allow absorption of spray into the leaf cells - however some chemicals are going to have a negative effect if not used appropriately. Was the wetting agent you used specific for foliar applications? If not, it could still be used, but at a much weaker dosage (I'd try 1/4 to start on 1 plant and monitor effect).

It also depends if there are other adjuncts, chemicals or additives present in the wetting agent. I'd highly advise checking the MSDS of the product (and any product) prior to use.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
hmmm, every wetting agent I've used (only two types) have been a MUCH less application ratio, like one good fat drop to a liter.
I'm using a clear transparent organic wetting agent, can't remember what its called, I believe it's coconut derived? not sure.
36 drops seems like a bunch, for only a liter
 
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J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
cannaculturalist said:
It really depends on the product. Some are only suitable for soil applications, and help by breaking the hydrophobic nature of the medium, allowing moisture to better be absorbed by the particles and distributed through the media. Some can be used as part of a foliar application, by using them as a suffocant, which similarly breaks the waxy cuticle of the leaf (which is hydrophobic) to allow absorption of spray into the leaf cells - however some chemicals are going to have a negative effect if not used appropriately. Was the wetting agent you used specific for foliar applications? If not, it could still be used, but at a much weaker dosage (I'd try 1/4 to start on 1 plant and monitor effect).

It also depends if there are other adjuncts, chemicals or additives present in the wetting agent. I'd highly advise checking the MSDS of the product (and any product) prior to use.
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It's for both foliar and soil drench applications. It came recommended from the grow shop to help the plant absorb nutrients and also as a sticking / spreading agent for foliar pesticide applications. I think a few of my "drops" were more than drops...the bottle suggests a 1:1000 ratio which equates to 1ML / QUART which is definitely way less than I put in. It looks like jonny just learned a valuable lesson in properly measuring your shit...
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
It's for both foliar and soil drench applications. It came recommended from the grow shop to help the plant absorb nutrients and also as a sticking / spreading agent for foliar pesticide applications. I think a few of my "drops" were more than drops...the bottle suggests a 1:1000 ratio which equates to 1ML / QUART which is definitely way less than I put in. It looks like jonny just learned a valuable lesson in properly measuring your shit...
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Been there, like actually said almost the same shit to myself, and my name is Jonny too. I put waaaay too much miticide in a mix years ago, killed the mites, but fried my leaves, took like 6 weeks to get them back on their feet before flowering
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
waterdawg said:
I'm confused!! Its your favourite product but you had to look it up.
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no, it's my favorite WETTING AGENT, and I bought it like ten years ago, it lasts a REALLY long time. Plus, c'mon dude, we're STONERS, so, umm you know. MEMORY issues?
Cut me some slack.
do you have nothing better to do? I mean, really? besides if you're going to quote me, get it right
 
waterdawg

waterdawg

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
no, it's my favorite WETTING AGENT, and I bought it like ten years ago, it lasts a REALLY long time. Plus, c'mon dude, we're STONERS, so, umm you know. MEMORY issues?
Cut me some slack.
do you have nothing better to do? I mean, really? besides if you're going to quote me, get it right
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Sorry!! My bad! And yes your right I forgot what I bought yesterday lol. Must have been in a bad mood from reading all of the defoliation threads gone bad. Again I apologize
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
waterdawg said:
Sorry!! My bad! And yes your right I forgot what I bought yesterday lol. Must have been in a bad mood from reading all of the defoliation threads gone bad. Again I apologize
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and I totally agree, the threads here can sometimes be damn frustrating, I think I went like over two years without a single post because of sheer frustration. Between the defoliating threads and it seems to me that everyone thinks the solution to any plant's problem is a PH or calcium deficiency. Course the fact that I have less than 1000 posts, means that I know nothing, and therefore people tend to challenge what I say a lot. Not sure why, but i'm alright with that, I can recite all the ins and outs of the type of cannabis growing that I do, so i'm completely prepared to defend my methods and techniques. What a lot of growers don't realize is that cannabis is so easy to grow, that it'll adapt to most techniques, and therefore the saying "more ways than one, to skin a cat" is totally applicable, so when somebody has a method they like, they SWEAR by it, and a lot of times are somewhat closed-minded about other methods, I've been guilty of that myself. Many times in fact. This is a good site though, especially for beginners, I wish it was around in the late eighties/early nineties when I first started, would have saved my first two harvests. And LOTS of experimenting. But honestly, there is no replacement for experience. Working in the auto industry has taught me that, but it applies to this hobby as well.
I do appreciate your apology, it's easy to do otherwise, for what it's worth, you have my respect. If you ever have any problems with your car, let me know, I have 16 years of experience and I have my own shop, and have multiple ASE certs and a star certified smog license. I'm happy to help out the people that have my respect.
 
Uncle Ben

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
Been there, like actually said almost the same shit to myself, and my name is Jonny too. I put waaaay too much miticide in a mix years ago, killed the mites, but fried my leaves, took like 6 weeks to get them back on their feet before flowering
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Having learned the hard way I ALWAYS do a test first. Just did one today in fact. Have mites in the greenhouse so I put a red flag on all the test branches of all kinds of plants, sprayed and if all is well in a couple of days I'll spray everything top to bottom.

BTW, best miticide on the market is Forbid 4F. Gets all stages, all classes, whiteflies too, is safe because it smothers them and is translaminar, good for 4 months..

36 drops per liter sure sounds like a lot. 1 tsp./gal. of non-ionic, 92% solids surfactant works for me.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
Uncle Ben said:
Having learned the hard way I ALWAYS do a test first. Just did one today in fact. Have mites in the greenhouse so I put a red flag on all the test branches of all kinds of plants, sprayed and if all is well in a couple of days I'll spray everything top to bottom.

BTW, best miticide on the market is Forbid 4F. Gets all stages, all classes, whiteflies too, is safe because it smothers them and is translaminar, good for 4 months..

36 drops per liter sure sounds like a lot. 1 tsp./gal. of non-ionic, 92% solids surfactant works for me.
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Thanks UB. I have been recently using floramite on new clones and then azamax and captain jack's dead bug through late veg and early flower which seems to work well. One good thing to report is that I let the plants I ruined continue to flower all the way to 9 weeks and I actually got 3 oz's of frosty buds. It really defies logic how those plants were able to produce buds but it goes to show ya that even severely damaged plants will spit out a few decent flowers :)
 
Choo

Choo

Well-Known Member
greasemonkeymann said:
and I totally agree, the threads here can sometimes be damn frustrating, I think I went like over two years without a single post because of sheer frustration. Between the defoliating threads and it seems to me that everyone thinks the solution to any plant's problem is a PH or calcium deficiency. Course the fact that I have less than 1000 posts, means that I know nothing, and therefore people tend to challenge what I say a lot. Not sure why, but i'm alright with that, I can recite all the ins and outs of the type of cannabis growing that I do, so i'm completely prepared to defend my methods and techniques. What a lot of growers don't realize is that cannabis is so easy to grow, that it'll adapt to most techniques, and therefore the saying "more ways than one, to skin a cat" is totally applicable, so when somebody has a method they like, they SWEAR by it, and a lot of times are somewhat closed-minded about other methods, I've been guilty of that myself. Many times in fact. This is a good site though, especially for beginners, I wish it was around in the late eighties/early nineties when I first started, would have saved my first two harvests. And LOTS of experimenting. But honestly, there is no replacement for experience. Working in the auto industry has taught me that, but it applies to this hobby as well.
I do appreciate your apology, it's easy to do otherwise, for what it's worth, you have my respect. If you ever have any problems with your car, let me know, I have 16 years of experience and I have my own shop, and have multiple ASE certs and a star certified smog license. I'm happy to help out the people that have my respect.
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Greasemonkey, you just hit on one of the things I have said for years. Growing pot is EASY! Just get a good book and study a little, or study this site, also there's a ton of stuff online. And there is no way I could place a value on being able to ask questions of so many growers as on here. However, I think so many people nowadays treat it like a video game or something and think, "If a little is good then more is better"! Or they over-complicate it. My first respectable grow after many attempts was due to a book by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal I picked up in '78. It really simplified things. Also, you are right about experience. Anyone who has gardened and raised vegetables has a leg up, and of course, years of growing cannabis teaches one a lot. Of course, I say all this from the perspective of a dirt farmer having never tried hydroponics. I even did indoor grows with dirt. I learned two valuable lessons from that. Never partner, and never bring a plant in from outside, spider mites are a bitch to get rid of.
 
greasemonkeymann

greasemonkeymann

Well-Known Member
Choo said:
Greasemonkey, you just hit on one of the things I have said for years. Growing pot is EASY! Just get a good book and study a little, or study this site, also there's a ton of stuff online. And there is no way I could place a value on being able to ask questions of so many growers as on here. However, I think so many people nowadays treat it like a video game or something and think, "If a little is good then more is better"! Or they over-complicate it. My first respectable grow after many attempts was due to a book by Mel Frank and Ed Rosenthal I picked up in '78. It really simplified things. Also, you are right about experience. Anyone who has gardened and raised vegetables has a leg up, and of course, years of growing cannabis teaches one a lot. Of course, I say all this from the perspective of a dirt farmer having never tried hydroponics. I even did indoor grows with dirt. I learned two valuable lessons from that. Never partner, and never bring a plant in from outside, spider mites are a bitch to get rid of.
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amen to that, mites ARE a bitch to get rid of.
I love that you are a fellow Rosenthal/Frank disciple, he taught me the basic ins and outs long before anyone else even had books on the subject. Funny thing is, 99% of what he said/taught are methods that withstand time and are applicable today, even four decades later, and even after all the proliferation of fancy lights and growing supplies. Plants simply don't change, once you can grow a rose bush, or a tomato, or even a philodendron, they are all relative, sure the ph, food, soil types, etc, differ, but the basics are all there.
 
shaggyballs

shaggyballs

Well-Known Member
Well I just tried the yucca I got on Ebay and it seems like a quality product plants seem to like it.
The good thing about it is you really cant over do it.
Maybe it would get your plants real sticky if you really went crazy!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Yucca-Extract-Yucca-Schidigera-Saponin-Powder-Wet-Betty-WETTING-AGENT-SM-90-/161289126445?pt=Fertilizer_Soil_Amendments&var=&hash=item258d94c22d

I cant say I see a big difference in growth but man is this stuff sticky I left a little on the spoon and it was damp out.
I could hardly get it off the spoon...sticky stuff!
I guess that is what I bought it for though!!

shag
 
J

jen@dank2u

Member
jonnynobody said:
I just started using a wetting agent in nutrient feedings after doing some reading it seemed like a good move. I then used the wetting agent with azamax to increase the effectiveness in a spray application at the suggested rate of 36 drops per liter. I let them fully dry for about an hour outside of the grow tent away from the HPS and the next day almost all of my large fan leaves have shriveled into crispy curls and the plants appear doomed.

This was week 4 of flower so it really is a bum deal but I was hoping somebody could help advise me for certain whether or not the wetting agent may be the definitive culprit here? 36 drops seems too much for only 1 liter, but this wetting agent stuff is new to me.

thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
They sounds burnt. 36 drops I don't know how that translates but it sounds like too much...
Per quart of water you only use 0.08-0.25 fl. Oz. Which is less than 1/2 a tablespoon. If 36 drop is more than 1/2 a tablespoon it's over done. And the wetting agent just helped to keep all that extra on the leaf. A wetting agent helps break surface tension of the water . Which allows the mixture once sprayed on the plant to not just roll off the leaf but bead up and sit in the leaf. I came across this while searching if a wetting agent is necessary with azamax. I think you solved my problem. No its not necessary. But I really the problem you have is not from the wetting agent alone, it's the combination of too much azamax with a wetting agent
 
S

Smokenpassout

Well-Known Member
Im confused too about wetting agents! I have a liter of organic wet betty. Of course the advanced people told me it benefits my soil grows and to just add it in at 2ml per liter for better uptake of all nutrients. I understand wetting agents can aid foilar feedling...but not sure if they help plants roots uptake more nutrients. I guess in theory it makes sense.
 
shaggyballs

shaggyballs

Well-Known Member
I say save your money, just buy the yucca extract it is way way cheaper than wet betty!
But if you like shopping in the hydro stores, they do have fancy labels..LOL
Just sayin'
shag
 
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