California judge order sex change to proceed

UncleBuck said:
the criteria for gender dysphoria are very clear. this would not be an issue if a registered psyD did not determine that the patient meets the criteria for gender dysphoria.
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If the patient has proven the disorder they should get the surgery. No question.

But then who pays for it? Who would pay for it if they were not in prison?


Disclaimer: I don't know much about this case. Just using practical common sense here.
 
see4 said:
If the patient has proven the disorder they should get the surgery. No question.

But then who pays for it? Who would pay for it if they were not in prison?


Disclaimer: I don't know much about this case. Just using practical common sense here.
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i agree that it is fucky that we have to pay for prisoner health care when ours isn't even guaranteed, but i'd feel worse exposing prisoners to cruel and unusual punishment because that would totally violate the values that are supposed to make us "better" as a country.
 
UncleBuck said:
i agree that it is fucky that we have to pay for prisoner health care when ours isn't even guaranteed, but i'd feel worse exposing prisoners to cruel and unusual punishment because that would totally violate the values that are supposed to make us "better" as a country.
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Good point. But then we would need to understand if this person was experiencing this syndrome prior to their arrest. If so, I would say the person had the opportunity prior, and should wait until they are released.

But again, I don't know much about the details of the case, so I'm probably speaking out of place here.
 
UncleBuck said:
i take issue with calling this elective since the disorder it corrects is listed in the DSM-5 right next to a whole bunch of other disorders that we treat in prisoners as well. to deny this procedure while still giving meds to patients with other mental disorders is hypocritical.

prisoners do have the right to medical treatments.
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So u say it shouldn't be an elective surgery because it's on some fucking list? You're a fucking moron. I can name a bunch of shit that's on lists that shouldn't be there. How about MJ being on a list of schedule 1 narcotics? Hypocritical? You skipped the "C's" and went straight to H. You forget what kind of forum you're on? Who's the hypocrite? Sounds like your the kind of monkey spunk that would appoint this judge anyways.

UncleBuck said:
if it is unnatural, why does it happen in nature?

and are you ascribing intentionality to nature?

bible thumping bigot.
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Why does it happen? It's a fucking anomaly that people like yourself like to perpetuate. Nature would take care of that gene in due time obviously, but the same idiots that allow surgeries like this for prisoners are the same liberal shmucks that let these anomalies get artificially insemenated letting this gene pass to the next generation. It doesn't take a bible thumping bigot to figure that one out. It's just plain science. Wait for it...wait...wait. I think I feel an ignorant racist anti-bigoted remark coming from the audience. Alright, I'm ready now.

 
808newb said:
Why does it happen? It's a fucking anomaly that people like yourself like to perpetuate. Nature would take care of that gene in due time obviously, but the same idiots that allow surgeries like this for prisoners are the same liberal shmucks that let these anomalies get artificially insemenated letting this gene pass to the next generation. It doesn't take a bible thumping bigot to figure that one out. It's just plain science. Wait for it...wait...wait. I think I feel an ignorant racist anti-bigoted remark coming from the audience. Alright, I'm ready now.
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nature does not "take care of" anything, it has no intentionality.

it's been millions of years and people still go around giving birth to gays.

gays have been around far longer than "liberal shmucks [SIC]" or artificial insemination.

you're just a fucking idiot.
 
UncleBuck said:
prisoners can be and often are patients.

do you really not think of these things?
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I really do think of these things. Do you? Do you think about career criminals who get out of prison just to do some messed up shit like that so they will send them back because they don't know how to live on the outside. Or how about the ones that can't get medical coverage but knows the state will pay if they are in prison. Same goes for and handout bullshit the government dishes out while my tax $ go to pay for welfare, food stamps, Obama phones, etc. where does it stop? Half of these people don't deserve these services. I saw one woman last week get cash off her ebt and then go straight to the counter to purchase a carton of cigarettes. We already pay hundreds per day per prisoner. Multiply that by the 10's of thousands incarcerated currently. Simple math. We've become a nanny state and it's brought this country down. Whatever happened to justice? Justice for the person he killed? Go and ask the victims family if it would be ok if this guy could have this surgery because the convict really doesn't like the way he looks. He can't stand to look at himself in the mirror because he doesn't like the way he looks, not because of what he did. Your as much of a sick fuck as this transgender wannabe. You say because it's on the fucking list? Go back to smokin your schedule 1 shit cause the government put that on a list too, funny how we all can pick and choose. Which is the reason? Morality? Law? Religion?

Fucking liberal nanny moron
 
UncleBuck said:
he sure does, it's called the constitution. prisoners have a right to medical attention, and gender dysphoria is a condition listed right in the DSM-5.

i notice you brought up this issue, but not the issue of treating other medical conditions that prisoners have. this is clearly because you are a bigoted piece of shit.
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You've spent your whole time trying to pretend that this surgery isn't just about the ego/wants of a MURDERER. Why are you insane? This guy WANTS to be the woman that he feels he is....And? I want to weigh 105 pounds, but it's not happening this month.

That MURDERER will not die if he doesn't get to become a "woman", and as a murdering criminal, he does not deserve cosmetic surgery when his life is not in danger. And it is cosmetic, looking like a woman doesn't make you one at all.

I think that there has been a lot of homophobia and you see it in people's definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. That's homophobic because that's a narrowed definition designed to deny basic rights. Refusing to use tax payers money to pay thousands for elective cosmetic surgery that will ONLY make the CONVICTED MURDERER feel better is not discrimination in the slightest.

Women need Pap smears and breast exams to prevent cancers that can kill them. Men need similar check-ups. No one NEEDS gender reassignment surgery to save their life. Therefore no tax payer should have their money used on procedures that aren't necessary, while others go without basic check ups that ARE life saving.

Convict wants to get on kick starter and get the surgery? Excellent, get out of prison and then do it. Want to sit in jail, make tax payers pay for it, and then go and make nearly every woman at the new female jail uncomfortable? Hell no.
 
see4 said:
If the patient has proven the disorder they should get the surgery. No question.
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Seasonal affective disorder (sad) happens to people in states with less sunshine.... It makes them depressed. Here in seattle we have one of the highest suicide rate in the country which they believe is caused by the depression caused by lack of sunlight. Should seattle prisoners be sent to new sunnier prisons to avoid s.a.d? Should taxpayers pay for it?

No.

Just having a mental disorder isn't enough to justify the priciest attempt at treatment, gender reassignment surgery, nor justify making tax payers pay for it. There are many medical disorders that aren't getting proper treatment... Many prison diabetics would do better with insulin pumps, but they aren't getting them. Many prisoners aren't getting Pap smears and breast exams, and I would gather that NONE are getting cannabis treatment when they KNOW it cures cancer....

Uncle Buck says that trans people get brutalized in prison... So do the non trans people, dummy. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
 
Tori Amos said:
You've spent your whole time trying to pretend that this surgery isn't just about the ego/wants of a MURDERER. Why are you insane? This guy WANTS to be the woman that he feels he is....And? I want to weigh 105 pounds, but it's not happening this month.

That MURDERER will not die if he doesn't get to become a "woman", and as a murdering criminal, he does not deserve cosmetic surgery when his life is not in danger. And it is cosmetic, looking like a woman doesn't make you one at all.

I think that there has been a lot of homophobia and you see it in people's definition of marriage as between a man and a woman. That's homophobic because that's a narrowed definition designed to deny basic rights. Refusing to use tax payers money to pay thousands for elective cosmetic surgery that will ONLY make the CONVICTED MURDERER feel better is not discrimination in the slightest.

Women need Pap smears and breast exams to prevent cancers that can kill them. Men need similar check-ups. No one NEEDS gender reassignment surgery to save their life. Therefore no tax payer should have their money used on procedures that aren't necessary, while others go without basic check ups that ARE life saving.

Convict wants to get on kick starter and get the surgery? Excellent, get out of prison and then do it. Want to sit in jail, make tax payers pay for it, and then go and make nearly every woman at the new female jail uncomfortable? Hell no.
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so should we also deny meds to schizophrenics?

what makes this person's clinically diagnosable condition any different than another person's clinically diagnosable condition?
 
Tori Amos said:
Seasonal affective disorder (sad) happens to people in states with less sunshine.... It makes them depressed. Here in seattle we have one of the highest suicide rate in the country which they believe is caused by the depression caused by lack of sunlight. Should seattle prisoners be sent to new sunnier prisons to avoid s.a.d? Should taxpayers pay for it?

No.

Just having a mental disorder isn't enough to justify the priciest attempt at treatment, gender reassignment surgery, nor justify making tax payers pay for it. There are many medical disorders that aren't getting proper treatment... Many prison diabetics would do better with insulin pumps, but they aren't getting them. Many prisoners aren't getting Pap smears and breast exams, and I would gather that NONE are getting cannabis treatment when they KNOW it cures cancer....

Uncle Buck says that trans people get brutalized in prison... So do the non trans people, dummy. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
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so when is cruel and unusual punishment OK with you, and when is it not OK?

is it OK to subject transgendered people to cruel and unusual punishment?
 
Tori Amos said:
Seasonal affective disorder (sad) happens to people in states with less sunshine.... It makes them depressed. Here in seattle we have one of the highest suicide rate in the country which they believe is caused by the depression caused by lack of sunlight. Should seattle prisoners be sent to new sunnier prisons to avoid s.a.d? Should taxpayers pay for it?

No.

Just having a mental disorder isn't enough to justify the priciest attempt at treatment, gender reassignment surgery, nor justify making tax payers pay for it. There are many medical disorders that aren't getting proper treatment... Many prison diabetics would do better with insulin pumps, but they aren't getting them. Many prisoners aren't getting Pap smears and breast exams, and I would gather that NONE are getting cannabis treatment when they KNOW it cures cancer....

Uncle Buck says that trans people get brutalized in prison... So do the non trans people, dummy. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
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Thank god those are just your opinions and not actual fact.
 
UncleBuck said:
so should we also deny meds to schizophrenics?

what makes this person's clinically diagnosable condition any different than another person's clinically diagnosable condition?
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No we should not deny relatively inexpensive medication to prisoners who may harm themselves or others without the medication, as due to their mental condition, they aren't in control of themselves, and need the meds for basic functioning.

That's not happening here with the murderer who was granted the surgery, this is just his desires about his outward appearance, and the biggest issue I have is that this is not a certain cure, it's just that the murderer desperately wants a red-Ryder BB gun.. I mean gender reassignment surgery because he thinks it will make him happy.

So if you have two prisoners, one who is schizo and needs meds ($200 a month lets say) to keep the voices in his head at a lower enough volume so that he doesn't jump off the roof or throw someone off the roof, and another who wants to "feel" like a women at a cost of $100k, they are not even in the same category. One is medically necessary to keep one alive, and one treatment is elective.

Elective, buck. If the trans person doesn't have it he won't die, which is the very definition of elective surgery. You can choose whether or not to have it, it's not life-saving. This is madness. You know you get it, I just don't know why you're pretending not to understand how frivolous this is.
 
UncleBuck said:
so when is cruel and unusual punishment OK with you, and when is it not OK?

is it OK to subject transgendered people to cruel and unusual punishment?
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There has been no mention of cruel and unusual punishment. New topic? Ok.

I don't think it's ever ok to subject trans people to cruel and unusual punishment. It's not ever ok to subject anyone to that.
 
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