California Cannabis Hemp & Health Initiative 2012

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
utter crap!
u obviously don't understand capitalism, sad because its the system we live in.
Anyone has the chance to make as much $ from the marijuana biz as Lee has, we have had always had this opportunity available.
once again, if 19 was only about lee and big biz why does it allow for everyone of age to be able to grow their own bud for free at home?
Lee is an amazing person and we should all be thanking him for all of his hard work, contributions, and biz that has brought mj to the public eye and started the end of prohibition in the USA. He is the best thing that could have happened to every single pot smoker in this state!
You're delusional:

- Not everyone has the chance to be in the biz. As you can see from Oakland where they are limiting the amount of permits.
- It allows people to grow at home but with a very limited area and makes sure that everyday people are criminalized if they try to cut into his profits.
- Your right Lee is awesome, thats why some of the biggest marijuana activists are against this bill.
 

vradd

Active Member
lol dude u need to realize not everyone wants to be in the business to grow, i bet you the number of those who are just being allowed to smoke and grow something PERIOD, far outnumber those who want to grow to gain capital.

oakland is limiting the number of permits probably because everyone wants to grow it. big deal move to the city next door. if you didnt prepare for this great movement months maybe years ago then thats YOUR bad. richard lee is smart. he knew to stick with it so that if it should ever become legal hes already got him self established and ready for it.

the only people who are going to get criminalized are those who are pushing huge amounts and not being held accountable for it. got you people who argue these raids are ignorant. they will only raid those whose bust is great than or EQUAL to the cost to run the operational raid. they will not waste tax dollars and possibly the lives of LEO's for a small backyard grow... they only want you country farmers who have acres of unregistered land and making a fortune off it.

the only pot activists against the bill are those who stand to lose money from it. its simple math. money = power.

plain and simple. why do you think politicians are ALL rich. they can afford to sway the vote via money, because money has that power.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
utter crap!
u obviously don't understand capitalism, sad because its the system we live in.
Anyone has the chance to make as much $ from the marijuana biz as Lee has, we have had always had this opportunity available.
once again, if 19 was only about lee and big biz why does it allow for everyone of age to be able to grow their own bud for free at home?
Lee is an amazing person and we should all be thanking him for all of his hard work, contributions, and biz that has brought mj to the public eye and started the end of prohibition in the USA. He is the best thing that could have happened to every single pot smoker in this state!
Had he left out the area limits and local ordinances, P19 would be passable.

No, on 19.
 

vradd

Active Member
veggie why cant you get over your wallet and just be happy we all have the chance to smoke pot, not just 215 people anymore. dont you want everyone to have the same rights as you? dont you want the same rights as everyone else?

so long as you live in this country bro you will have to pay taxes on something. you WILL be regulated on something. its just how it is. if you want to be robin hood and protect whats yours then you need to use a better agenda and not something that only helps you.
 

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
veggie why cant you get over your wallet and just be happy we all have the chance to smoke pot, not just 215 people anymore. dont you want everyone to have the same rights as you? dont you want the same rights as everyone else?

so long as you live in this country bro you will have to pay taxes on something. you WILL be regulated on something. its just how it is. if you want to be robin hood and protect whats yours then you need to use a better agenda and not something that only helps you.
Everyone does have the same rights as him. Go get a recommendation.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
Everyone does have the same rights as him. Go get a recommendation.
Exactly.

Everyone that likes Cannabis, needs Cannabis according to well known MD, Thomas O'Connell. Most pot docs agree with him.

Nearly all of them will accept insomnia as sufficient reason to write a recommendation.

Yes, this system isn't perfect, but is far better for everyone than the results of P19.

There are thousands of co-ops around California that provide low cost, or free meds to their members. This doesn't happen in 25 square feet.
 

vradd

Active Member
unfortunetly society has labled is the wrong colors so i can assume the masss who dont want a 215 card dont want to be labled as such. by partially regulating it and leaving it up to the state it then removes the 'sin' feeling of doing something that by the books is wrong when we all know its not.

your forgetting that what is written will im sure be amended some how after it gets legalized. im sure their will be a cause and effect waiting to happen.

and again sir please do NOT preach about dispensaries unless your going to provide proof. i dont believe in these 'mystical' dispensaries that only exist by word of mouth, that is NOT being compassionate to the pot community. thats just as good as saying "hey go find a grower and be friends with him so u get free buds" most growers WONT do that because they have your mentality about money.

as for low cost ive seen very rarely will top shelfs ever go below $50. and if its a word of mouth place only then thats even better. proof! that if you have good stuff you will get a following and a decent income regaurdless.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Not true, they are trying to control the market and pass laws that benefit themselves while keeping citizens in limbo.
I heard that if you're wearing a tin foil hat you'll be safe from that stuff.


Just because they aren't killing people doesn't mean that they are all rainbows and butterflies.
Ok, but they still aren't killing people. lol. You're comparing them to the drug cartels. The drug cartels do kill people.

I say coming together to establish laws with personal benefits while not benefiting the people is just as bad.
If that were the case here I'd agree with you, but it's not. This does benefit people. You're just so deep in some conspiracy theory you can't see it.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
You're delusional:

- Not everyone has the chance to be in the biz. As you can see from Oakland where they are limiting the amount of permits.
I'm going to go ahead and assume that everyone who is in a financial position to open a dispensary can afford some type of car as well. If that is the case they can drive to Berkley, Alameda, Danville, San Leandro, San Lorenzo, San Francisco, etc, etc, etc. It's not like people who live in Oakland aren't allowed to drive to another city/town. I know, it's crazy to suggest someone spends 5 minutes in a car, but it can be done. There is no wall around Oakland preventing people from leaving. So yeah, they all have a chance to be in the business.

- It allows people to grow at home but with a very limited area and makes sure that everyday people are criminalized if they try to cut into his profits.
25sq ft is enough room to get a considerable amount of bud. And this brings the limit UP from zero sq ft. We can all agree that the number 25 is more than zero right?

- Your right Lee is awesome, thats why some of the biggest marijuana activists are against this bill.
"Some". Yeah, and MOST are in favor of it.
 

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
I'm going to go ahead and assume that everyone who is in a financial position to open a dispensary can afford some type of car as well. If that is the case they can drive to Berkley, Alameda, Danville, San Leandro, San Lorenzo, San Francisco, etc, etc, etc. It's not like people who live in Oakland aren't allowed to drive to another city/town. I know, it's crazy to suggest someone spends 5 minutes in a car, but it can be done. There is no wall around Oakland preventing people from leaving. So yeah, they all have a chance to be in the business.
Oakland is a pretty progressive city when it comes to pot, what makes you think a lot of California won't be more restrictive? If this bill would have allowed a more free market I probably wouldn't be against it. Go tell the Napa Valley they can only have 4 vineyards and see what happens.

25sq ft is enough room to get a considerable amount of bud. And this brings the limit UP from zero sq ft. We can all agree that the number 25 is more than zero right?
Everyone has the right to get a recommendation which will restrict you less than prop 19.

Some of the biggest. I understand that any reform is a step forward I just don't think this bill is a good starting point because it does not represent the people it represents special interests.
 

vradd

Active Member
ill tell you what from a realistic side, prop 19 sounds a whole lot of a smoother transition, than crossing THAT bridge and expecting everyone to change their views that were instilled in them over the last what 20-30years over nite. just like that 2012 measure seems to portray and expect

remember guys) just as quick as you negative 19'ers are quick to say that our govt is running a conspiracy to screw everyone over if this passes, they CAN just as swifty enact something that would NOT let 19 happen to its full extent.

REMEMBER GUYS) its your tax dollars already paying the thousands upon thousands of these political figure's salaries, just so they can come up with the dumbest reasons to keep the oppression on us.

bottom line, just as quick as they can give it to us, THEY CAN take it from us. lets vote yes and see what THEIR move will be next!
 

vradd

Active Member
the real question is WHAT are they gonna do next. come nov 3rd, if its voted upon, we the people can smoke. BUT we must stay vigilant because come nov 3rd i GARUANTEE you they WILL already have something to rebuttle with. THIS is when the political battle begins to keep the law as it is. in order for the DEA to enforce us will take lots of tax money. that money WILL come from other states. do you think other states that are in the 215 club will let that happen?

if prop 19 passes we WILL see how the rest of our states work because this will be like the revolutionary war all over. feds= europe and the queen. states= colonies. i know its kinda a bit off but in many ways this issue is already looking a lot like it.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Oakland is a pretty progressive city when it comes to pot, what makes you think a lot of California won't be more restrictive? If this bill would have allowed a more free market I probably wouldn't be against it. Go tell the Napa Valley they can only have 4 vineyards and see what happens.

Everyone has the right to get a recommendation which will restrict you less than prop 19.

Some of the biggest. I understand that any reform is a step forward I just don't think this bill is a good starting point because it does not represent the people it represents special interests.
What special interests, Richard Lee?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Oakland is a pretty progressive city when it comes to pot, what makes you think a lot of California won't be more restrictive? If this bill would have allowed a more free market I probably wouldn't be against it. Go tell the Napa Valley they can only have 4 vineyards and see what happens.
Speculation. I could easily claim the opposite and be just as right. Truth is some counties will pass good laws, others will pass bad ones. But if people stay active on the local level over time, these laws will get better.

Everyone has the right to get a recommendation which will restrict you less than prop 19.
Which is great. And you have that option with or without prop 19.

Some of the biggest. I understand that any reform is a step forward I just don't think this bill is a good starting point because it does not represent the people it represents special interests.
Legalization is doomed without commercial cannabis production. You don't have to like it, but you have to understand that money is what makes things happen here. It's pretty easy for politicians/law enforcement to bust average citizens. It becomes much more difficult when busting those people results in lower income for the local government.

Local government is much more willing to stand by growers/sellers if they are financially benefiting from the process and getting to approve what businesses are allowed.

I understand that it is a fact that some local governments are going to abuse that process, but other local governments will understand that is it much more better for them to allow a lot of smaller grows/dispensaries than a couple big ones.

When you invest your money in the stock market you don't put all your money in a couple of stocks. You diversify, spreading your money out so you can protect yourself in the case of one of those stocks doing badly. This really isn't any different and it will be made very clear once prop 19 passes.

It's a bad plan for cities like Oakland to allow 4 big businesses and shut everyone else out. Those big businesses are going to attract heat from the FED's and have big legal battles that stop production, lowering the amount of tax revenue the city gets.

By allowing more smaller operations rather than a few big ones, cities/counties ultimately get more tax revenue in the long run, and are not impacted as much if one of the businesses shuts down.

Local governments aren't just evil for the sake of being evil. They will see that allowing a lot of small businesses is rather than a couple big ones is in their best interests long term.
 

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
All of these things should have been taken care of in the bill. They had 10 years to see how the state was effected by prop 215 and should have been able to see what needed to be addressed in prop 19 but they didn't.

Speculation. I could easily claim the opposite and be just as right. Truth is some counties will pass good laws, others will pass bad ones. But if people stay active on the local level over time, these laws will get better.
Which is why this is a great country, we are allowed to have different opinions. I just see how counties are treating medical marijuana and I don't think they'll be more lenient on recreational use, almost all government officials are against this bill.

Legalization is doomed without commercial cannabis production. You don't have to like it, but you have to understand that money is what makes things happen here. It's pretty easy for politicians/law enforcement to bust average citizens. It becomes much more difficult when busting those people results in lower income for the local government.
I never believed commercial cannabis wouldn't exist. I just believe prop 19 was designed to create control in the marijuana industry. It's not a coincidence that Lee was behind this bill and he has one of the 4 permits in Oakland. If you think he didn't create this bill to benefit himself you're crazy. This bill was directly written to take out competition in the market place.

I understand that it is a fact that some local governments are going to abuse that process, but other local governments will understand that is it much more better for them to allow a lot of smaller grows/dispensaries than a couple big ones.
Here's where you went wrong with that one. You're thinking as if the people in government especially in the lower levels are competent rational people.

{It's a bad plan for cities like Oakland to allow 4 big businesses and shut everyone else out. Those big businesses are going to attract heat from the FED's and have big legal battles that stop production, lowering the amount of tax revenue the city gets.
Just one example of how brilliant local governments are.

By allowing more smaller operations rather than a few big ones, cities/counties ultimately get more tax revenue in the long run, and are not impacted as much if one of the businesses shuts down.
Again, your thinking like a rational person. If you keep doing that you'll never understand how the government works.

Local governments aren't just evil for the sake of being evil.
Not evil, just stupid and incompetent.
 

mccumcumber

Well-Known Member
I don't see why people don't think growers could just sell to the big companies as well. I imagine the new "bud bars" as something similar to a dispensary, but anyone can go on in these. I don't really see how people are coming to the conclusion that dick's 4 big ass warehouses will run them out of business, come November 3rd those babies are gone. I think 19 will do for all what 215 did for some. But that's just my opinion.
 

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
remember guys) just as quick as you negative 19'ers are quick to say that our govt is running a conspiracy to screw everyone over if this passes, they CAN just as swifty enact something that would NOT let 19 happen to its full extent.
That's absolutely incorrect.

The legislature CANNOT modify laws passed by referendum. This was proven by the appeals to some aspects of AB420.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
That's absolutely incorrect.

The legislature CANNOT modify laws passed by referendum. This was proven by the appeals to some aspects of AB420.
True. The only mods to Prop 19 by the legislature that are allowed are mods to liberalize it, i.e. to allow more than 25sf grow space, etc. Those mods are only allowed because the language of 19 specifically authorizes them.
 

stonedmetalhead1

Well-Known Member
True. The only mods to Prop 19 by the legislature that are allowed are mods to liberalize it, i.e. to allow more than 25sf grow space, etc. Those mods are only allowed because the language of 19 specifically authorizes them.
Last time I checked SB 420 was being enforced. SB 420 directly modifies prop 215 in a restrictive manner. Even though we have the Kelly decision MMP rules are still being enforced.
 
Top