caddy's Journal #1 - Papaya & Haze 19 x Skunk #1

Hello everyone at RIU, as this surely is not the first journal you've ever read, However I am extremely happy you stopped by to check my out my first! This is my first time growing and being a fairly technically inclined individual I decided to try my hand at hydroponics.

Here is the complete details of the grow including equipment.

Germination Start: 11/06/2008
Transplanted: 11/08/2008 (7 cracked/sprouted in 2 days, 3 took a little re-working in rock wool causing them to fall 5 days behind, they did end up sprouting and are now growing, they are the obvious small ones in the pictures in this first journal post.) For clarification in the pictures below the late sprouts are in the closest middle two net pots

1.) Plant Strain(s)
-Papaya & Haze 19 x Skunk #1
-Total Plants sprouted/growing: 10 (5 of each)

2.) Equipment (Vegetation)
-One 30 gallon Rubbermaid tub - 8 site DWC, 5 inch net pots
-Medium of growth: rock wool & hydroton clay pellets
-4 Air stones - 2 high pressure pumps (this thing gets its bubble on...)
-Two 4 foot dual T8 - 6500k fluorescent lights (dual bulbs in each fixture)
(One fixture covers each full row of net pots with a fixture over each row)
-Hannah PH meter (bought 2 days ago, shipping to my location)
-Hannah TDS/PPM meter (bought 2 days ago, shipping to my location)
-Low pressure fans moving ambient air in and out of the area. On average when they are on it will lower the area's temperature by about 5 degrees down to a low of 76 degrees Farenheit.

2.1) Equipment (Flowering)
-1000w High Pressure Sodium - Sun Systems 6" vented hood w/ glass
- Ten 5 gallon buckets, one 75 gallon tub (Have not fully decided how to lay this out in my room, but since I have time before I need it I will be slowly finishing it so it is ready for the business it will do. I may move to SOG or a 5x5 tray setup.

3.) Current conditions during vegetation
-Ambient Air Temperature: 78.6 degrees Fahrenheit, up to 84 if fan is off.
-Relative Humidity: 44%
-Water Temperature: 70.9 degrees Fahrenheit
-Timers set at: 18 hours on, 6 off

Additional Grow details from start to date:
Most of these including the smaller ones have great bright white roots well out of the net pots into the water below, some as long as 8 inches. I initially started the water line about 1" below the pots and have consistently kept it there by adding a tiny bit of water just once and it seems to moisten the pots just fine.

Picture(s) Details:
The black thermometer has a line directly into the reservoir itself reading a constant water temperature. The silver hygrometer measures relative humidity & air temperature at the plant level. There is one light that you cannot see because it's moved away for the photos, it equally covers the entire length of the net pot row, so each row has its own dedicated fixture with two 4 foot T8, 6500K bulbs.

Looking straight at the picture of the reservoir the left 4 pots are Papaya and the right 4 pots are Haze 19 x Skunk #1

General Questions:
I have been constantly reading RIU and taking all the information I can find and soaking it up, and one thing so far perhaps has me a bit curious/concerned? Some of the rock wool in the net pots are lower than others but ultimately they're getting upwards of 3 inches in height. The Papaya seems to be staying shorter but they have by far the biggest roots coming out of the pots.

I've looked at others plants in both soil and hydroponics of various systems and as some of them report at 1 week or even 2 they have quite a bit larger of a plant than I do at the same stage. What do you guys think.. are these relatively small for 7 days in from the crack of seed to where they are now? Does anyone have pictures of their past/previous grows of the end of week 1 and week 2 that I could see?

Imporant note:
Now, I've not added any nutes as that's my next purchase and final thing to research further, or at least much more so than I have been. I've mostly seen that you should wait 2 weeks or for the 2nd full set of leaves before you start messing with a fresh sprout growing so that is what I have done. I have NOT done any PH testing since i've started only because the strips I had were bad and my two meters are in route to my location and should be here early this coming week. I could potentially contribute slower growth to a higher PH, but am unsure. Until I can properly measure it I will update this journal accordingly as readings come in and the water changes.

This grow is a dedication to those who I follow on here (mostly all) and your methods, trials & tribulations in your past and previous grows. I salute you guys & girls, you gave me the inspiration to try this after being a long time toker so I've just decided to try my hand at this since I now have a large area I can work with. Any advice, input and other pictures you can give me to help my general question would be greatly appreciated. This thread will be maintained and updated with extreme detail as it started out with as the grow moves forward. Thank you all for your time and dedication, for first time growers it means a lot to be able to see your pictures, read your methods and apply that toward executing my grow.

Thank you all again, if I missed anything that seems obvious as for details let me know, each heading above should contain most of the pertinent information regarding grow conditions, plant layout & concerns I have.

AWesome dude. Looking forward to this.

Thanks onthedl.. do you have any photos of week 1 and 2 from seed?

Yes sir i do.Included are pix of 3 seedlings i recently germed and put thru the process. Germed about 2.5 days, placed in jiffy spongue plug, about 3 days until roots poked out, lol I know but ran out of room in dwc and just put theses three in soil. they are almost 2 weeks old from germ right now. I am however in the process of starting a perpetual sog bro. Included are pix of the original moms in flower right now. Dunno if i will chop and reveg but i do have a couple clones i can use for cuttings. Im about a month or so out till i start filling up my pots with cuttings.

On another note i just updated my bubbleponics for beginners thread bro. Check it out i explained my whole process and what i plan on doing.

https://www.rollitup.org/hydroponics-aeroponics/123657-bubbleponics-beginners.html


Lol forgot the pix of the moms and clones.

I received my pH & TDS meter today and as anticipated our water comes out at 7.6 pH from the faucet. Having run this system for 8 days so far in vegetation with that initial pH it had gone up around 8.3 in the reservoir tonight when I checked it for the first time vs out of the faucet.

I've slowly begun to reduce it with pH down ever so slightly as to not go over my mark. I've got it down to low 6's right now and will probably leave it for tonight and tomorrow while I keep an eye on it. Once everything settles appears to be alright with the drastic pH drop so quickly, I will continue to reduce it even further at 5.8.

PPM out of the faucet with no nutes is roughly 123.

Looking to purchase the nutrients tonight, will probably go with a Sensi Grow A&B solution to get used to the whole mixing operation before I do any tinkering on my own.

I'm going to start this post off by adjusting the dates slightly in which this journal encompasses. The dates 11/8 to 11/15 were the transplant of the cracked seeds to fully sprouted out of the cubes. That being said, the 15th - 22nd (yesterday) would have been the first full week of their vegetative growth moving forward. My original post asked how they were doing after one week and technically that was unfair since they sprouted at different days but eventually all caught up with one another.

Last note before the pictures is the left 4 net pots are Papaya, the right 4 pots are Haze 19 x Skunk #1.

After having received my PPM/pH meters I found I was so far off the charts into the 8.3 pH range that i'm lucky they are doing as well as they are. Early last week I purchased some Technaflora pH Down and began learning and mixing accordingly until the relative pH at all times is 5.7-5.8 plus or minus .1. I've managed to get it down to a pretty good measurement with my dropper and the pH barely drifts at all anymore and if it does its not but by a full point or so going up (never down, yet). The middle two net pots in the closest row nearest the bottom are still 5 days behind if you read the first post in this thread so that is why they appear slightly behind the rest. As for the upper left two (Papaya) i'm assuming this is a trait that they stay low to the ground and just get full and fat. We shall see how the strain differences in growth pan out over the next 2 weeks much more so than the pictures display now.

I decided on the Advanced Nutrients Sensi Grow 2+ program and at the beginning of next week Monday or Tuesday begin the nutrient routine. Being a first time hydroponic grower I wanted to get better at natural pH balancing and get consistent (no ph drifting) results before adding more potential problems into the mix with nutrients.. no pun intended

At this time of this post, Sunday 11/23/2008 - 3:06pm the following information was recorded.

Ambient Air Temperature: 78 degrees
Relative Humidity: 40%
Reservoir Temperature: 68 degrees
pH: 5.7 - 5.8 solid
Light Timers: 18/6
Lights: 4 - 6500k - 4 foot T8's - Proximity to plants, 4 inches.

The only thing I have noticed that only slightly concerns me is 3 of the plants have some twisting foliage, nothing severe by any means but they are doing it just a little. From my reading in the FAQ and many other FAQ's it seems "twisting" foliage can be due to bad pH - which I surely know I had for their first week in that tub. I'll be waiting one more week with consistent pH and 1/4 to 1/2 strength nutrients before I put any more thought into the twisting to see if it resolves itself, if so, I know what it was entirely. If not, back to the drawing board and reading more - At this moment all old and new growth is green, growing is increasing in amount daily and everything is spotless, so for now I will not be proactive and correct anything.

Hey caddy looking good dude.....Thanks for the update bro! Cant believe u went with the rockwool tho..... Peat spongue plugs work so much better in dwc... Anyhow looking nice and healthy! keep up the good work!

onthedl0008 said:

Hey caddy looking good dude.....Thanks for the update bro! Cant believe u went with the rockwool tho..... Peat spongue plugs work so much better in dwc... Anyhow looking nice and healthy! keep up the good work!

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Well that's why I'm here.. to learn I will do some research on those and perhaps try them next round. What is the inherent added benefit of using those over say Grodan rock wool?

Secondly.. opened the veg grow room this morning and was greeted with some very dank odors, phew... That strong of odor at such a young age? Is it the style of growing or just the strains themselves do you think?

Hey caddy the best benefit in using the plugs would have to be they come already pre ph'd. All u have to do is soak them in tap water and squeeze um out a lil like a spongue.Drop the seedlings taproot down place in hydroton and they take care of them selves pretty much... Ive personally found that rockwool tends to get a lil wet if ur not careful with ur water levels.
Strains would be the number one cause of the aroma..... But of course ur grow method when done properly i cant help to think that if u give them everything they need they repay ya!
Looking good bro!

caddy said:

Secondly.. opened the veg grow room this morning and was greeted with some very dank odors, phew... That strong of odor at such a young age? Is it the style of growing or just the strains themselves do you think?

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Great looking set-up. You are going to like the 1kw sun systems-i am running those also. Although i am not doing dwc.
I grow 7 diff strains including true skunk1 and if you don't have excellent odor control systems in place i suggest making those your next priority or you clothes will stink from being in the same house with it.....seriously.

I have it in a batch finishing its 7th week and a batch in its 5th week and now that the thermostat turns my exhaust off and on at night instead of it running 24/7 this time of year it smells like lemony skunk in my living areas by 4 am. No odor probs when exhaust pushes it through a 8"Carbon filter

onthedl0008 said:

Hey caddy the best benefit in using the plugs would have to be they come already pre ph'd. All u have to do is soak them in tap water and squeeze um out a lil like a spongue.Drop the seedlings taproot down place in hydroton and they take care of them selves pretty much... Ive personally found that rockwool tends to get a lil wet if ur not careful with ur water levels.
Strains would be the number one cause of the aroma..... But of course ur grow method when done properly i cant help to think that if u give them everything they need they repay ya!
Looking good bro!

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Thank you very much for the heads up

Old in the Way said:

Great looking set-up. You are going to like the 1kw sun systems-i am running those also. Although i am not doing dwc.
I grow 7 diff strains including true skunk1 and if you don't have excellent odor control systems in place i suggest making those your next priority or you clothes will stink from being in the same house with it.....seriously.

I have it in a batch finishing its 7th week and a batch in its 5th week and now that the thermostat turns my exhaust off and on at night instead of it running 24/7 this time of year it smells like lemony skunk in my living areas by 4 am. No odor probs when exhaust pushes it through a 8"Carbon filter

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Unfortunately you bring up a topic I've been putting off with the odor control. I had hoped another couple weeks could go by to give me the time to lay out how I would handle that, appears that time line just shortened. We have a rather large house we're doing growing in and the grow op is well out of the way of normal foot traffic, but if this is any indication of whats to come for dank odors I need to address this now.

As usual I will continue to make updates to this thread every saturday night for the duration of the grow with all relevant conditions and progress pictures. Thank you all for comments & advice.

good shit bro >_<

Caddy bro odor control is the most under rated important key to your system! Be carefull u can stink up ur whole entire house with a couple plants!Try to make ur grow rooms as air tight as possible and if u have the money get a couple 8 inch carbon filters from ur local hydro store or prolly cheaper online.... Or look up diy carbon filters on riu...
Hope that helps..

caddy said:

We have a rather large house we're doing this in and its well out of the way of normal foot traffic but if this is any indication of whats to come I need to address this now.

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lol, yep me too, I am just saying.....
i am running over 7500 total watts (lights and accesories) in an area over 300 square feet (2 full sized bedrooms) plus a full bath devoted to my op. I live alone and my master suite is on the other end of the house, on a different floor and on a seperate zone of the hvac system and my bedroom room gets dank in the early morning.

I use an 8"vortex fan and the 8" Mountainaire carbon filter to exchange all air in both rooms in 3 minutes. I have heard good things about the UV Ionisers on the market and that is next on my list to back-up the filter when the exhaust is off. Or I may just hang another filter and vortex from the cieling of the flower room and use it as an air scrubber 24/7.

I wish you luck with odor control-just know it ain't cheap

onthedl0008 said:

Caddy bro odor control is the most under rated important key to your system! Be carefull u can stink up ur whole entire house with a couple plants!Try to make ur grow rooms as air tight as possible and if u have the money get a couple 8 inch carbon filters from ur local hydro store or prolly cheaper online.... Or look up diy carbon filters on riu...
Hope that helps..

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Well said.
+rep on the under-rated call. I couldn't agree more

LOl Brotha u 2... I was just reading ur post and couldnt have said it better!

Just a small update for this evening which is a little ahead of the usual Saturday night progress reports.

I received the Sensi Grow 2+ program bottles today. Per the Advanced Nutrient calculator I decided to go a bit under the week 2 recommendation of 165ml for my first 113L (30 gal) tub which is filled to about 26gal, approximately 98L. The measurement I went in at was 100ml for the reservoir of both Sensi Grow A & B. I will gradually over the next 2 weeks elevate this to match the full strength feeding of the calculator. My only reason for going under is two part, one you know is they've never seen nutes before and secondly I do not want to nute burn them out of the gate. I read countless threads from many sources to start 1/4 at a root in the water and work up, at this point i have 12inches + of root on in the water and they're growing quite rapidly as is, this is my reason for the amount added. If anyone sees a glaring issue with my figure please do not hestiate to step in and let me know your thoughts.

From this point forward in the grow a continual nutrient schedule will be executed. I am going to wait about 2 hours to come back and check the PPM and pH and do any necessary adjustments there after for the night.

12" of roots in the water......holy shit, feed away Caddy.

L'il at a time and you will be fine. They want to eat-you won't shock'em you will thrill them........

Caddy bro U obtain a greenthumb! All it takes to reach full strengths is about 3 weeks. U will see that once u blast them u will get a growth explosion im sure.. Let them feed and suck the nutes up but keep an eye on the ppm and replace nutes and fresh water as needed.. Bro u dont have to worry about overfeeding with a ppm meter but at the same time dont waste ur nuts, currently I dont even reach the full strength point in 2 weeks they are outgrowing my veg area of about a foot to 14 inches.... Keep up the good work bro!

Thank you for the heads up you two, its really appreciated to have you both keeping an eye on me

I just ran a pH and PPM test.. clocked in at 5.3pH so I bumped that up a tad and PPM rang in at 550.. Now that being said the AN calculator says I should be at our near 800-1000 PPM. The only way I could raise PPM is by more nutrients, correct? I would then be going well over the recommended PPM. Am I missing something key in this equation? Overload nutes, expected PPM.. recommended dosage used *I added the additional 65ml additional that I didn't the first time tonight* and my PPM is about 400 less than it should be.

It seems like a game of robbing peter to pay paul, one or the other is gonna eventually affect the plants, no?