Bush, making the world a safer place???

medicineman

New Member
President Bush has increased terrorism
A study on global terrorism has shown a sevenfold increase since President Bush attacked Iraq.
by Editor-in-Chief on 2007-02-21
"The Iraq Effect" By Peter Bergen and Paul Cruickshank Research fellows at the Center on Law and Security at the NYU School of Law, is a study using information from the world’s premier database on global terrorism. The results are being published for the first time by Mother Jones, the news and investigative magazine, as part of a broader "Iraq 101" package in the magazine’s March/April 2007 issue.
"If we were not fighting and destroying this enemy in Iraq, they would not be idle. They would be plotting and killing Americans across the world and within our own borders. By fighting these terrorists in Iraq, Americans in uniform are defeating a direct threat to the American people." So said President Bush on November 30, 2005, refining his earlier call to "bring them on." Jihadist terrorists, the administration’s argument went, would be drawn to Iraq like moths to a flame, and would perish there rather than wreak havoc elsewhere in the world.

The study shows that the Iraq War has generated a stunning sevenfold increase in the yearly rate of fatal jihadist attacks, amounting to literally hundreds of additional terrorist attacks and thousands of civilian lives lost; even when terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan is excluded, fatal attacks in the rest of the world have increased by more than one-third.

They are not making the argument that without the Iraq War, jihadist terrorism would not exist, but the study shows that the Iraq conflict has greatly increased the spread of the Al Qaeda ideological virus, as shown by a rising number of terrorist attacks in the past three years from London to Kabul, and from Madrid to the Red Sea.

Also undermining the argument that Al Qaeda and like-minded groups are being distracted from plotting against Western targets are the dangerous, anti-American plots that have arisen since the start of the Iraq War. Jihadist terrorists have attacked key American allies since the Iraq conflict began, mounting multiple bombings in London that killed 52 in July 2005, and attacks in Madrid in 2004 that killed 191. Shehzad Tanweer, one of the London bombers, stated in his videotaped suicide "will," "What have you witnessed now is only the beginning of a string of attacks that will continue and become stronger until you pull your forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq." There have been six jihadist attacks on the home soil of the United States’ NATO allies (including Turkey) in the period after the invasion of Iraq, whereas there were none in the 18 months following 9/11; and, of course, the plan uncovered in London in August 2006 to smuggle liquid explosives onto U.S. airliners, had it succeeded, would have killed thousands.

Al Qaeda has not let the Iraq War distract it from targeting the United States and her allies. In a January 19, 2006 audiotape, Osama bin Laden himself refuted President Bush’s argument that Iraq had distracted and diverted Al Qaeda: "The reality shows that that the war against America and its allies has not remained limited to Iraq, as he claims, but rather, that Iraq has become a source and attraction and recruitment of qualified people.... As for the delay in similar [terrorist] operations in America, [the] operations are being prepared, and you will witness them, in your own land, as soon as preparations are complete."
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
militarily speaking iraq is perfect look at its location... right next door to iran and syria unfortunatly the white house and congress are blundering a perfectly strategic setup... if they would put a real general in charge and get their filthy money and power happy hands out of this mess the islamo fascist terroist threat could be reduced to ashes in 2 years or less... we need an alexander the great or a julius ceaser in charge...
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Mother Jones, the news and investigative magazine,
Now that's a nice objective NEWS outfit.....

Childish, deluded, myopic, cowardly logic for all to see....
Yup we should just leave radical Islamists alone....all our troubles would simply vanish...because it's our entire fault...we are the bad guys....
WOW!
frthnk is correct in suggesting that we need a more concerted effort militarily; led by a focused, resourceful General without the absurd political hamstringing which Washington DC is so adept at.....Time to Butch up!
The only way to gain the peace is to kill our self avowed enemies!
The more brutal our campaign is, the sooner there will be peace!
 

ViRedd

New Member
Al Qaeda has not let the Iraq War distract it from targeting the United States and her allies. In a January 19, 2006 audiotape, Osama bin Laden himself refuted President Bush’s argument that Iraq had distracted and diverted Al "Qaeda: "The reality shows that that the war against America and its allies has not remained limited to Iraq, as he claims, but rather, that Iraq has become a source and attraction and recruitment of qualified people.... As for the delay in similar [terrorist] operations in America, [the] operations are being prepared, and you will witness them, in your own land, as soon as preparations are complete."

So, here we have a leftist propaganda "news" outlet quoting bin Laden himself making the claim that this is a WAR ... while at the same time, the Left continues to insist that WE are the invaders. Go figure!

Vi
 

medicineman

New Member
Al Qaeda has not let the Iraq War distract it from targeting the United States and her allies. In a January 19, 2006 audiotape, Osama bin Laden himself refuted President Bush’s argument that Iraq had distracted and diverted Al "Qaeda: "The reality shows that that the war against America and its allies has not remained limited to Iraq, as he claims, but rather, that Iraq has become a source and attraction and recruitment of qualified people.... As for the delay in similar [terrorist] operations in America, [the] operations are being prepared, and you will witness them, in your own land, as soon as preparations are complete."

So, here we have a leftist propaganda "news" outlet quoting bin Laden himself making the claim that this is a WAR ... while at the same time, the Left continues to insist that WE are the invaders. Go figure!

Vi
IF you get the gist of the piece, it was that Iraq has not made us safer. That is pretty factual I'd say. Lombast the left all you want, but facts is facts!
 

medicineman

New Member
Now that's a nice objective NEWS outfit.....

Childish, deluded, myopic, cowardly logic for all to see....
Yup we should just leave radical Islamists alone....all our troubles would simply vanish...because it's our entire fault...we are the bad guys....
WOW!
frthnk is correct in suggesting that we need a more concerted effort militarily; led by a focused, resourceful General without the absurd political hamstringing which Washington DC is so adept at.....Time to Butch up!
The only way to gain the peace is to kill our self avowed enemies!
The more brutal our campaign is, the sooner there will be peace!
Yeah, what can you expect from a warmongering Neocon. 80% of the world thinks the USAs foriegn policy is wrong, so I suppose you consider them to be the enemy, man woman and child. So do you propose to kill them all, 80% of the worlds population, so your right wing leaders can run the planet. I propose a less bloody solution. Kill the 20% of warmongering Neocons and just general assholes, and maybe the 80% can live in peace, You never know, it just might work! Have a nice Day!
 

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med, you really must intentionally misconstrue the meaning of my point.
I reiterate.......We kill those who have announced to the world that they intend upon attempting to kill us....our self-avowed enemies.....

So do you propose to kill them all, 80% of the worlds population,
I never made a statement remotely resembling your flight of fancy!

Med you have quite a vivid imagination.
 

medicineman

New Member
Med, you really must intentionally misconstrue the meaning of my point.
I reiterate.......We kill those who have announced to the world that they intend upon attempting to kill us....our self-avowed enemies.....


I never made a statement remotely resembling your flight of fancy!

Med you have quite a vivid imagination.
Not really, just taking your mentality to it's final conclusion. A. 80% of the world thinks we are wrong. B. killing those that oppose us is the Christian neoconic thing to do. C. kill 80% of the worlds population so we, the intelligent right wing plutocrats can get on with saving the world and ridding it of all the axis' of evil. Doesn't that make perfect sense. It is you that proposes to kill all our enemys, why stop with only the most extreme. They will become more extreme with time. It's kinda like killing a child of your enemies because he will grow up to be an enemy, or killing women enemies because they can bear children, so hell, just kill them all, no use talking to them or trying to start a dialog, just kill them before they kill you. Amazing mentality, fucking amazing!
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
you are way off the rocker by now med... not trying to down you but you take it too far... talk to all the people you want and keep talking as they cut your head off... reality check time... if i was the president i would close this fucking country off and see what the world did without this country if they don't like us so much... we have the best military in the world and the ability to produce everything we need in this country... let them come over here and do something about it... just let the rest of the world slowly rot away which it would execpt for a couple of other countries and then we can re open our borders and try again... get real man... i'm tired of seeing these stupid ass conversations arguing back and forth when there are more important things to worry about... you see what diplomatic talk has gotten us... 80 percent of the world hating us... yah good job diplomatic talks... we used to be feared and that kept these crazy countries in check because they were afraid we WOULD GO OVER TO THEIR COUNTRY and kill every single one of them... not anymore now they think they can walk all over us... oh hey guess what they are... imagine that... yah diplomatic discussion yah UN yah democrats... Good fucking job... I'm sick of this shit...
 

medicineman

New Member
you are way off the rocker by now med... not trying to down you but you take it too far... talk to all the people you want and keep talking as they cut your head off... reality check time... if i was the president i would close this fucking country off and see what the world did without this country if they don't like us so much... we have the best military in the world and the ability to produce everything we need in this country... let them come over here and do something about it... just let the rest of the world slowly rot away which it would execpt for a couple of other countries and then we can re open our borders and try again... get real man... i'm tired of seeing these stupid ass conversations arguing back and forth when there are more important things to worry about... you see what diplomatic talk has gotten us... 80 percent of the world hating us... yah good job diplomatic talks... we used to be feared and that kept these crazy countries in check because they were afraid we WOULD GO OVER TO THEIR COUNTRY and kill every single one of them... not anymore now they think they can walk all over us... oh hey guess what they are... imagine that... yah diplomatic discussion yah UN yah democrats... Good fucking job... I'm sick of this shit...
Wake up, the dream time is over. This is reality speaking to you. Either go out and kill the 80% that hates our foriegn policy, or change the policy, which is easier and more humane? I'd say changing the foriegn policy is the right thing, what say you?
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
med if that will work i'm all for it... i doubt it but i'm all for peace on earth... i really am.. i just don't see that happening... and if people have to die so my family and me can be safe well... give me an m-16 or better yet an atom bomb and i will be right on top of it...
 

medicineman

New Member
med if that will work i'm all for it... i doubt it but i'm all for peace on earth... i really am.. i just don't see that happening... and if people have to die so my family and me can be safe well... give me an m-16 or better yet an atom bomb and i will be right on top of it...
I'm all about making sure my family is safe also. I have a plethora of guns and ammo for emergency use. My contention is simply this: If we quit stirring hornets nests all around the globe, we should have a safer America' It will take some time to quell the animosity that now exists (Due to our foriegn policies), but in the long run, a less angry world is ultimately better for us and everyone. We have to take the corporations back under control. They have been running rampant with the world and are after a one world order where they control all governments to their benefit, this must be curbed now. I don't have a plan for that other than people waking up to the fact and taking personal responsibility to see it quashed. You must be able to see that corporations by their nature are evil. They have only one goal, to make profit no matter what it takes, fuck the environment, fuck the workers, fuck government regulations (They pay off government officials all over the globe, Including here, to get what they want), they are by nature an evil force against humanity. They do provide a lot of jobs, but at what cost to the larger picture. The ones making the real money are the CEOs and the stockholders. These are a small percent of the population, and they are running amok with our planet.
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
true enough med... but as long as they can get away with it they will... the lobbyists that control our government are rediculous... it sure does cost a lot of money to run for elections i wonder where that money comes from??? and if i were going to give someone all that money well i would want them to do what i asked after they got elected... and all politicians are doing the jig to someones tune... and i guarantee its not peoples... so you are right things will continue to get worse until the people wake up and do something about it... but you need to stop bashing the reps. all the time because the dems. are just as guilty... this is not one sided... if you are for the people then you are against almost all of the politicians... there is a reason the dems don't have any plans... and that is they just want to tell people what they want to hear so they can get back in power and get back to their objectives not the objectives of the people... THEIR OBJECTIVES...
 

medicineman

New Member
true enough med... but as long as they can get away with it they will... the lobbyists that control our government are rediculous... it sure does cost a lot of money to run for elections i wonder where that money comes from??? and if i were going to give someone all that money well i would want them to do what i asked after they got elected... and all politicians are doing the jig to someones tune... and i guarantee its not peoples... so you are right things will continue to get worse until the people wake up and do something about it... but you need to stop bashing the reps. all the time because the dems. are just as guilty... this is not one sided... if you are for the people then you are against almost all of the politicians... there is a reason the dems don't have any plans... and that is they just want to tell people what they want to hear so they can get back in power and get back to their objectives not the objectives of the people... THEIR OBJECTIVES...
You are right about the dems being Bad. They are just not as bad as the reps. The only choice we have is to vote for the lessor of the 2 evils and in my opinion, that is the dems, as they actually try and get some social programs instituted. Yeah they are corrupt, just like the republicans, but they know if they want to be in power, they have to step up and offer a better plan for more people than just the corporations. The republicans are all about the corporations and fuck the people and they come right out and say it. at least the dems talk a good game. lets see if they can deliver. And I'm with you on a better representative government, but these two parties are firmly entrenched and I can't see any alternative outside insurection, and you'd have to have a military coup to start.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
vote for the lessor of the 2 evils

if we reject this things will change. when we accept things like this we throw away everything that this country is supposed to be about.
 

medicineman

New Member
vote for the lessor of the 2 evils

if we reject this things will change. when we accept things like this we throw away everything that this country is supposed to be about.
OK I assume you are not naive enough to believe if you and a hundred thousand libertarians get together and don't vote you'll change anything. Just try and get a hundred libertarians to do anything. Arent they all for individual thought,? Why would they get together with anyone. And even if you could get them together, whats a few hundred thousand libs going to do with a 50-100 million voters voting for a dem or a rep. That is just silly bullshit. The libertarian creed is as close to anarchy as you can get without actually saying it and we know in an anarchy, the bullies rule. So it wouldn't be long untill you'd have the same guys running things and making rules to benefit them, samo-samo.
 

7xstall

Well-Known Member
to dispose of the bully regerg: https://www.rollitup.org/politics/6801-obamas-plan-6.html


what i'm saying is that we need to stop being so radical that we make ourselves irrelevant. are you so angry over Bush just because your guy, guys, lost to him or is there a real reason other than his being imperfect? is michael moore anything more than a malevolent entertainer to you? is al gore really anything more than an attention seeking baboon?

if you answer yes to any of those questions, congratulations, you are irrelevant. you are now in the club of "let's sit and complain but do nothing" and you are not alone. plenty of repubs are in there with you...they just have a slightly different stance, they demand more hand outs but then say they want small government when in certain company.

it's not about a party to me. it's about doing something and if you think it is ok to vote for the "lesser of two evils" you are not doing anything, you are not even voting, you aren't even in the picture. everyone says the young generation is complacent but looking at you i think we can see where that came from. cynicism too.
 

frthnkr85

Well-Known Member
7x you hit the nail on the head... i find myself reluctant to vote for the lesser... because evil is as evil does... the dems do just what med said... talk a good game... thats it their ideas have no basis to back them up and their plans would fail miserably even though they sound good... hell i'm all for peace on earth and diplomacy and blah blah blah... but throughout history it has been shown that if you want freedom and rights you have to have the bigger gun or people will walk all over you... right now our government has the biggest gun and we let them get away with fucking us day in and day out... and the dems and reps are no different they support whoever puts them in power... as i've said it costs a lot of money to run for public office i wonder where that money comes from??? surly the dems aren't getting their money from poor citizens that they just want to help... POOR CITIZENS... so where is it coming from??? and they owe their allegiance not to the people but to THE PEOPLE WHO GOT THEM IN POWER... any questions or is that obvious enough???
 
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