British officials tells right wingers in America to stop lying

mispost, sorry

OregonMeds said:

Thanks for taking the time to look this up. Unfortunately though what's on paper and what they actually have money to do are two very different things. The state system is broken and bankrupt and they have had to cut back drastically. Unless you are about to pop out a kid or recently did pop out a kid they just don't have money to help and they just refer people to other broken federal programs or to non-profit private bum shelters.

Our employers already pay for some peoples insurance or part of it and then the individuals pay a large chunk as well and much of that money goes straight to profit, millions in bonuses and to wine and dine doctors and give them free drug samples and pens and special visits all the time for various drugs they want docs to push.

A for profit system of the type we have that only covers a few people is more expensive than a socialized system that would cover everyone.

I also don't think you really understand what rate you are taxed. Some countries it's clear, other countries like ours you are taxed at every turn by everything you do or buy but it's just not all shown clearly in one place.

We pay too much and get too little with the system we have now.

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So... you aren't going to even apply... even though you are guaranteed acceptance...


Ok then. Vlad it is. I have no compassion for you whatsoever. You are just a whiner.

Dude there is not a year that I haven't applied there. I know what I'm talking about.

Btw I forgot to thank you for changing that avitar. Thank you, seriously, oh so nice not to have to look at her.

Cough... bullshit... cough...


I will call tomorrow and ask how long the wait is to get on as acceptance is guaranteed.


Ill get back to you.

I already explained to you it goes off household income and I do not live alone. Go ahead and call and ask man...

Besides that is not what I'm looking for. I don't want food stamps, I want my back fixed so I can be a productive member of society and take care of myself. Just setting me up to be a drain on society for the rest of my life is bullshit it costs you more and we all get less.

You don't understand the situation and don't care to think that the system is broken and talking about all this just pisses me off. I'm not going to debate on this topic any longer it just makes my pain worse when I get all stressed.

OregonMeds said:

I already explained to you it goes off household income and I do not live alone. Go ahead and call and ask man...

Besides that is not what I'm looking for. I don't want food stamps, I want my back fixed so I can be a productive member of society and take care of myself. Just setting me up to be a drain on society for the rest of my life is bullshit it costs you more and we all get less.

You don't understand the situation and don't care to think that the system is broken and talking about all this just pisses me off. I'm not going to debate on this topic any longer it just makes my pain worse when I get all stressed.

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Yes, but OM do you really think that the government has any interest in making you independent of them. I have a friend on SS Disability that attempted to come up with a PASS (Plan to Achieve Self-Sufficiency) that would allow him to try starting a business.

Instead of granting him the wish to have a chance to become a productive, independent member of society they rejected it out of hand. There are also an insane number of hoops that he has to jump through. The government is not interested in independent subjects, because independent subjects are subjects they have no control over. They want dependent subjects, because those are the ones that they have control over. That is, the ones that rely upon government services are the ones that justify the existence of government services.

If everyone on welfare was able to leave welfare then how would HHS justify having hundreds of thousands of employees on payroll? If everyone under Social Security was able to retire independently wealthy than how would the Social Security Administration justify having hundreds of thousands of employees on payroll when it comes to retiree benefits (let alone continue to justify the existence of an unneeded program)?

Reagan advised us that the best way to judge the success of Welfare was not based on how many people were on it, but by how many people had left it. Yes, a safety net is important, but it is equally important that the safety net not ensnare people and hold them down. This is something that the bureaucrats can not permit, for it the safety net acts as a trampoline they face tough question regarding expenditures that were not made, and the government will not just allow them to keep unused money (which is absurd imo) but demand that it be returned to the treasury. It is a system that does not encourage bureaucrats to actually accomplish the purported goals of helping people, but to ensnare them in a tangled net like dolphins.

OregonMeds said:

I already explained to you it goes off household income and I do not live alone. Go ahead and call and ask man...

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"automatically qualified"

OregonMeds said:

Besides that is not what I'm looking for.

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So... uh... why are you applying for it every year? Yes... yes there is that. The gorgeous thing about the truth is that you don't have to work around it.

OregonMeds said:

I don't want food stamps, I want my back fixed so I can be a productive member of society and take care of myself. Just setting me up to be a drain on society for the rest of my life is bullshit it costs you more and we all get less.

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It isn't food stamps. It is fucking health coverage. I linked the schedule of benefits. The maximum you will pay is 30% for your surgery. I just gave you 70,000 dollars.

OregonMeds said:

You don't understand the situation and don't care to think that the system is broken and talking about all this just pisses me off. I'm not going to debate on this topic any longer it just makes my pain worse when I get all stressed.

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So I call bullshit... you contradict yourself, and then quit.

Sounds to me like you are sittin on your ass, growin dope, drawing disability, bitching about not having free health insurance. You sound like Rikki's old man. From this moment forward I will call you Ray.


I'm still calling.

Knock yourself out...

Ask them specifically about the health coverage and what it covers if it covers major surgery to fix a broken back or if it just covers basic services.

I can get a checkup every month if I wanted to just verify I'm still fucked and it didn't magically heal itself. Oh and sure they'd give me all the oxy or morphine I might want for free and food stamps. None of which I want. You want to direct me to every government tit I can suck on and I'm here argiuing with you that I don't want to be on the tit. I think it's backwards you direct me to do what you hate people doing.

Thanks for taking the time though even if your motive is just to try and make me look the fool.

Again, if it doesn't cover your surgeries, why are you applying every year Ray?

palmtree said:

I woudn't want to be in the UK and break my leg and wait 14 months to get it fixed. .

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That never happens in the uk, you get treated virtually straight away depending on hospital busyness, im talking minutes to hours not weeks to months! thats crazy.

OregonMeds said:

Knock yourself out...

Ask them specifically about the health coverage and what it covers if it covers major surgery to fix a broken back or if it just covers basic services.

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It is in the benefits which I linked you to, as is the exclusions link... which you didn't click. You will have a 6 month wait for the pre-existing. If you actually wanted to get "better" you would click, just for the merest chance it would help you... I mean since YOU are the one suggesting socialized medicine that will cover you... you CLAIM to be justified in sucking of of the BIG government teat... what is wrong with the local one? If you REALLY took the position, AND wanted to get better... you would have clicked the link.

OregonMeds said:

I can get a checkup every month if I wanted to just verify I'm still fucked and it didn't magically heal itself. Oh and sure they'd give me all the oxy or morphine I might want for free and food stamps. None of which I want.

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Straw man.

OregonMeds said:

You want to direct me to every government tit I can suck on and I'm here argiuing with you that I don't want to be on the tit. I think it's backwards you direct me to do what you hate people doing.

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It is OREGON government. I don't pay SHIT for it. And it is a real decent, affordable policy. It covers you. You don't care enough to even read the docs. It is a 2,000,000 maximum payout. It is decent considering your situation.

http://www.oregon.gov/DCBS/OMIP/docs/health_plan_summary.pdf

OregonMeds said:

Thanks for taking the time though even if your motive is just to try and make me look the fool.

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I can't make you look the fool Ray, only you can do that.

We do what we do because of who we are, not because of what others do.


You should say that to yourself every morning.

yawn






.

No doubt...

According to the World Health Organization, average life expectancy in Japan is 83 years; Australia, 82; Switzerland, 82; Canada, 81; Sweden, 81; Spain, 81; Italy, 81; France, 81; Germany, 80; and the United Kingdom, 79. In all, there are 29 countries whose citizens have longer life expectancies than Americans.

Taking accidental deaths and homicides between 1980 and 1999 into account, they calculate that instead of being at near the bottom of the list of developed countries, U.S. life expectancy would actually rank at the top.

the U.S. has a disproportionate number of individuals who die as the result of fatal injuries compared to the other wealthy nations of the world. This does not reflect upon the quality of health care in the U.S., in that these events almost universally occur independently of the condition of health of the individuals who die as a result of these factors.

If you've sorted the data in the dynamic table, you find that without accounting for the incidence of fatal injuries, the United States ties for 14th of the 16 nations listed. But once fatal injuries are taken into account, U.S. "natural" life expectancy from birth ranks first among the richest nations of the world.

The fact that Americans tend to be a lot fatter than the citizens of other rich developed countries increases their risks of heart disease and diabetes. A recent international survey reported that 31 percent of Americans are obese (body mass index over 30), whereas only 23 percent of Britons, 21 percent of Australians and New Zealanders, 14 percent of Canadians, 13 percent of Germans, 9 percent of the French, and 3 percent of Japanese have body mass index measurements over 30.

America's relatively high infant mortality rate also lowers our life expectancy ranking. A 2007 study done by Baruch College economists June and David O"Neill sheds some light on why U.S. infant mortality rates are higher—more low weight births. In their study, U.S. infant mortality was 6.8 per 1,000 live births, and Canada's was 5.3. Low birth weight significantly increases an infant's chance of dying. Teen mothers are much more likely to bear low birth weight babies and teen motherhood is almost three times higher in the U.S. than it is in Canada. The authors calculate that if Canada had the same the distribution of low-weight births as the U.S., its infant mortality rate would rise above the U.S. rate of 6.8 per 1,000 live births to 7.06. On the other hand, if the U.S. had Canada's distribution of low-weight births, its infant mortality rate would fall to 5.4. In other words, the American health care system is much better than Canada's at saving low birth weight babies —we just have more babies who are likely to die before their first birthdays.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/127038.html

http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2007/09/natural-life-expectancy-in-united.html

Taking accidental deaths and homicides between 1980 and 1999 into account, they calculate that instead of being at near the bottom of the list of developed countries, U.S. life expectancy would actually rank at the top.

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But they still died, so you can't not count them.

America's relatively high infant mortality rate also lowers our life expectancy ranking. A 2007 study done by Baruch College economists June and David O"Neill sheds some light on why U.S. infant mortality rates are higher—more low weight births. In their study, U.S. infant mortality was 6.8 per 1,000 live births, and Canada's was 5.3. Low birth weight significantly increases an infant's chance of dying. Teen mothers are much more likely to bear low birth weight babies and teen motherhood is almost three times higher in the U.S. than it is in Canada. The authors calculate that if Canada had the same the distribution of low-weight births as the U.S., its infant mortality rate would rise above the U.S. rate of 6.8 per 1,000 live births to 7.06. On the other hand, if the U.S. had Canada's distribution of low-weight births, its infant mortality rate would fall to 5.4. In other words, the American health care system is much better than Canada's at saving low birth weight babies —we just have more babies who are likely to die before their first birthdays.

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We are still high on prenatal deaths so that is out too. See you missed a important part that "The authors calculate that if Canada had the same the distribution of low-weight births as the U.S."

The problem is that do to the reasons that we have issues with low birth weights could be say poor diet, but more likely is poor medical treatment leading up to the birth that leads to it.

All that aside I do feel that America is one of the best in the world at treating problems after they occur. Because that is how our system is not set up. This is why we have such an expensive system that sucks. We need to fix more problems before they arise. We need to not get people to the point of advanced diabetes or triple bypass heart surgery, we should be catching it when a small amount of exercise could fix the issues.

So using the same technical analysis that they used in your article, 'if' they had not dealt with the issues earlier they would have far more cases of what would be healthy low weight babies that should have been normal, they would have an easier time saving them, just like us. Instead when most their babies are healthy the small amount of underweight infants are in a far worse situation due to a much more severe sickness. And hence much harder to save then the malnutritioned infant here in the states, that is due to not having neonatal meds.

See people don't want you to scratch the surface, and expect you not to to get that these things are just poking holes in a medical research paper. So they try to poke holes using the information that they had used. They don't expect their viewers to do some dilligance and question what they say. When you don't you miss the facts that we still suck when it comes to the health of our nation.

Hey What,
I just read a bit of you and meds conversation, I think that you may be going for the throat a bit here.

And if you have an expensive pre-existing condition like needing back surgery chances are you will not be able to get health insurance, because it makes no sense for them to dump almost $100k on someone that may pay $75k if they pay $250 a month for the next 25 years, and not taking into account anything else that they may need.

And with the bills there is nothing that allows for plastic surgeries or abortions. Nor invetro, all of those are private clinics that do them. These bills are just about an insurance plan that every american can be on.

Read the policy. It is designed specifically to cover people in is situation... set up by his state. Thanks for reminding me... I forgot to call.


I asked Ray REPEATEDLY to stop making this personal. He refused... so I complied. Read the whole thing. Don't bring your personal life into a health care debate unless you want to talk about your personal life. Or how about this... Don't lie. If I catch you in a lie, I will absolutely hang you with it.


Also, I believe our health care is less to blame for our mortality than our diets. We are fat. That causes complications. We eat chemicals and shit. Not doctors faults that we kill ourselves.

Read the policy. It is designed specifically to cover people in is situation... set up by his state. Thanks for reminding me... I forgot to call.

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I thought that you were talking about the way it is now. Yes, that is exactly why the regulations in this bill is so important. We cannot have people with broken backs not get the treatment that they need. And what would the difference be between having someone go on medicaid and we pay for it, vs. if they cannot afford to we pay for it?

Except under this bill if he can afford it he would have to.

I asked Ray REPEATEDLY to stop making this personal. He refused... so I complied. Read the whole thing. Don't bring your personal life into a health care debate unless you want to talk about your personal life. Or how about this... Don't lie. If I catch you in a lie, I will absolutely hang you with it.

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I did end up reading most of it after I posted, I just wouldn't jump down someones throat for having issues with the medical system. It is not like he can read a book and improve his situation.

Also, I believe our health care is less to blame for our mortality than our diets. We are fat. That causes complications. We eat chemicals and shit. Not doctors faults that we kill ourselves.

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I take it all in.

We drive more than any other nation, we watch more tv, eat much shittier food even though we are the breadbasket of the world, we are more removed from our family, we work longer, have less vacations, our children are addicted to video games and corn surope (wow cannot spell worth a shit this morning), and everything else that makes us fatter and further removed from society as a whole.

And then we just react to medical issues instead of cutting them off with a change in lifestyle.

Our entire country is fucked, that much I agree with everyone, but not in a way that is about government control or taxes.

anyone can say what they like, my personal experience has had me in the NHS hospitals many many times, waiting times can be a bit annoying, but other than that, i can't personally offer one reason for myself not to like the NHS and what it's doing.

anyone can say what they like, my personal experience has had me in the NHS hospitals many many times, waiting times can be a bit annoying, but other than that, i can't personally offer one reason for myself not to like the NHS and what it's doing.

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Have a political party and their donors dump millions into a smear campaign about how it is going to bankrupt your country with lie after lie, how it is the next step to removing everyone of your rights and you will be tossed into a FEMA camp. Then they get the paid for bloggers to mobilize grandma and grandpa with misinformation that they will be killed by deathpanels and that it is a big scary nazi that is in office.

And after a few months the panic becomes so fierce that it is now good 'news' and those angry mobs filled with grandma and grandpa get all over the news making everyone think that it must be evil for these sweet old people to be so against it. And after all that you may be surprised how many people become panicked.

I envy you guys and your news channels talking about matters intelligently and not just going with the sexiest story even if it void of all reality.