Botanic are Cal - Mag V.S Dyna Gro foliage-pro

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
I came across a calcium deficiency, and along with that my iron and mag obviously is going to get locked out or encounter some problems. So I went and got Botanicare cal mag and the hydro dude also gave me a sample of the Dyna-Gro foliage pro. So I'm asking knowledge on which is best.

right now my base are Advance Nutrients Jungle Juice 3 part, grow, micro, bloom. Also add hygrozyme, B52, and H2o2 in my DWC system.
 

619ster

Member
Foliage Pro is a base nutrient and can be used on its own with no additives. The cal-mag should be fine as you don't want to double up on base and burn your plants.

are you sure it's cal-mag deficiency and not lockout due to ph being of or other factors?
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
Foliage Pro is a base nutrient and can be used on its own with no additives. The cal-mag should be fine as you don't want to double up on base and burn your plants.

are you sure it's cal-mag deficiency and not lockout due to ph being of or other factors?
my PH is stable at 5.2
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
I would use everything in the first paragraph and stop using everything in the second.

So you would only use the AN three part solution grow microwave bloom? With no additives? And if so, why? Plants require much more than just the basic NPK
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
In my own opinion, 5.8 is to high for deep water culture. 5.8 is logical for soil base operations, 5.2-5.5 is ideal when your roots are submerged in water 24/7
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
This is what 5.8 at 1800 ppm has done for me. If I see problems I adjust my ph according to this chart for whatever may be locked out and it works like a charm.
View attachment 2811910





This is a very handy chart my friend. Where did you acquire this? I am trying half my ladies at 5.6 and the others at 5.8. Lets see which thrives more. Thanks.
 

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
In my own opinion, 5.8 is to high for deep water culture. 5.8 is logical for soil base operations, 5.2-5.5 is ideal when
your roots are submerged in water 24/7
Thats just plain wrong. You are off by a point. soil should be around 6.5 and hydro around 5.8. its not a matter of opinion its fact. every time my ph drops to or below 5.5 I start getting cal or Mg issues despite feeding of sufficient a and mg.
 

mike45214

Well-Known Member
I've had that chart for years. A guy at my local hydro store gave me the file cause I was have mg lockout issues.
 

Malevolence

New Member
So you would only use the AN three part solution grow microwave bloom? With no additives? And if so, why? Plants require much more than just the basic NPK
No, If you are in veg I would just run the foliage pro as your base, and add a little cal/mag. If you are in bloom, check out Dyna-Gro Bloom... it's one-part, non-organic, and a lot of people swear by it in DWC. In fact, Dyna-Gro Grow/Bloom with Pro-Tekt is pretty much one of the 'standard' veg/bloom nute formulas for DWC (along with Lucas, General Hydroponics, Maxibloom dry, etc). The protekt is silica which people often run through veg and 12/12 stretch to infuse the plants with silica which increases branch/stalk strength, leaf resilience, heat and drought tolerance... I discontinue in flower just in case it's possible to get silica in the bud. I use Grow in DWC, but the soiless mix guys seem to prefer foliage pro. Either way, the needs of a plant are pretty easy to meet in veg. They even use FP all the way through Bloom, but I find it is too much N for DWC so I switch to DG Bloom. Dyna-Gro is formulated for tap water so there isn't much cal/mag in it, which has caused me deficiencies so I recommend running the cal/mag with it. DG has magpro, but it doesn't have calcium afaik. You shouldn't need a bloom booster with DG Bloom, but you could run botanicare sweet or maybe liquid karma.

In DWC it is hard to keep a bucket of water sitting around for a couple weeks and not get all nasty and shitty as fuck. It's like leaving a glass of water in your bedroom for 2 weeks but about a billion times worse because you are growing shit in it. So, you're going to want to run either bennies or sterilizers, but not both cuz the h2o2/bleach/zone/etc will kill the bennies. I like bennies because they are more effective at curing slime and recovering from root rot than sterilzers such as h2o2; both are fine for prevention, but since both sterilizers/bennies are relatively the same cost and effort, I go with bennies. I use only Aquashield, but other good bennies are great white and pond-zyme (petco). You can also bubble a bucket of r/o water and mix in bennies and unsulphured blackstrap molasses for a couple days to make a super bennies tea for cheap that will go a lot further and be more effective than simply dumping it straight into your res. But, I just use Aquashield... you can just keep using the h2o2 (or bleach) if you aren't having problems with it, but you are just killing/sterilizing the hygrozyme so stop using it.

Dyna-Gro base products like Foliage Pro, Grow, and Bloom are complete one-part solutions that have all the micro elements the plants need. AN tells you their shit is formulated for weed and slings around marketing terms like stimulates root growth, massive bud swelling, dripping with resin... and then they push more shit on you for $30 a pop. What is a pk booster going to do? If you are eating trail mix and you don't like peanuts that much and someone keeps dumping in more fucking peanuts... what's that going to do? Nothing but boost ppm. Why not just put the extra PK in the base bloom mix to begin with? Why not just put the micro nutes in one bottle... put the bennies in one bottle... I think the AN is too expensive and incomplete and I can't trust their labels because of things I have read. All that said, I have never tried them and I'm sure their shit works fine if you jump through the hoops. You won't see many experienced growers using AN lineup... especially ones that run a large op. A few do, and they kill it... but they could kill it with any nute lineup.
 

Nizza

Well-Known Member
since you bought it already you might as well use it, the AN nutes have special enzymes not listed on the product due to it being manufactured mostly in Cali, and they have weird labeling regulations.
if you have some yellowing going on add a little more of the part A of the formula than you had been, and always add in the cal-mag first when mixing the nutes. order: (silica) , cal-mag, base nutes, then additives

these enzymes are nice to have but easy to get other ways, check the no-till Recycled organic living soil thread for insight. But yeah I use the foliage pro start to finish and the buds are doing aweeeesome. Give it a try next run!! I also use GH calimagic and pro-tekt, and humboldt honey carbs . First run using all this stuff can't wait to use it

My main goal is to finish up all these bottled nutes as fast as possible, and make a switch to organics with a worm compost bin and a small EWC setup. Really though, check out that no-till thread... amaaazing crap on there, amaaazing....
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
No, If you are in veg I would just run the foliage pro as your base, and add a little cal/mag. If you are in bloom, check out Dyna-Gro Bloom... it's one-part, non-organic, and a lot of people swear by it in DWC. In fact, Dyna-Gro Grow/Bloom with Pro-Tekt is pretty much one of the 'standard' veg/bloom nute formulas for DWC (along with Lucas, General Hydroponics, Maxibloom dry, etc). The protekt is silica which people often run through veg and 12/12 stretch to infuse the plants with silica which increases branch/stalk strength, leaf resilience, heat and drought tolerance... I discontinue in flower just in case it's possible to get silica in the bud. I use Grow in DWC, but the soiless mix guys seem to prefer foliage pro. Either way, the needs of a plant are pretty easy to meet in veg. They even use FP all the way through Bloom, but I find it is too much N for DWC so I switch to DG Bloom. Dyna-Gro is formulated for tap water so there isn't much cal/mag in it, which has caused me deficiencies so I recommend running the cal/mag with it. DG has magpro, but it doesn't have calcium afaik. You shouldn't need a bloom booster with DG Bloom, but you could run botanicare sweet or maybe liquid karma.

In DWC it is hard to keep a bucket of water sitting around for a couple weeks and not get all nasty and shitty as fuck. It's like leaving a glass of water in your bedroom for 2 weeks but about a billion times worse because you are growing shit in it. So, you're going to want to run either bennies or sterilizers, but not both cuz the h2o2/bleach/zone/etc will kill the bennies. I like bennies because they are more effective at curing slime and recovering from root rot than sterilzers such as h2o2; both are fine for prevention, but since both sterilizers/bennies are relatively the same cost and effort, I go with bennies. I use only Aquashield, but other good bennies are great white and pond-zyme (petco). You can also bubble a bucket of r/o water and mix in bennies and unsulphured blackstrap molasses for a couple days to make a super bennies tea for cheap that will go a lot further and be more effective than simply dumping it straight into your res. But, I just use Aquashield... you can just keep using the h2o2 (or bleach) if you aren't having problems with it, but you are just killing/sterilizing the hygrozyme so stop using it.

Dyna-Gro base products like Foliage Pro, Grow, and Bloom are complete one-part solutions that have all the micro elements the plants need. AN tells you their shit is formulated for weed and slings around marketing terms like stimulates root growth, massive bud swelling, dripping with resin... and then they push more shit on you for $30 a pop. What is a pk booster going to do? If you are eating trail mix and you don't like peanuts that much and someone keeps dumping in more fucking peanuts... what's that going to do? Nothing but boost ppm. Why not just put the extra PK in the base bloom mix to begin with? Why not just put the micro nutes in one bottle... put the bennies in one bottle... I think the AN is too expensive and incomplete and I can't trust their labels because of things I have read. All that said, I have never tried them and I'm sure their shit works fine if you jump through the hoops. You won't see many experienced growers using AN lineup... especially ones that run a large op. A few do, and they kill it... but they could kill it with any nute lineup.

youmreally opened my mind to a whole new way of thinking about DWC and product usage as well. I did notice that Dyna foliage has everything a plant would want/need in one bottle only for the whole veg state. Instead of adding all the other additives to suffice for the lack of in the base. AN is out for the money and run like a business, not a logical way for those really interested in growing properly and efficiently (without the hoop jumping). I've also been told that if you apply just a minimal amount of H2o2 compared to the hygrozyme, that they would both be beneficial. I have read a lot of controversy of using H2o2 with hygrozyme.

In your opinion what would be an ideal line to use for DWC? (Base, bloom, cal mag?)
 

Mr.Buds

Well-Known Member
@NIZZA

i was also informed from my buddy that has been growing this strain for years, to add my H2o2 to the water first and let that sit for about an hour so the water gets oxygenated and sterile, then go in with the base mutes first, then additives and leave cal mag to the end. What is the main reason suggest to add cal mag first? I've also heard this from others, and I'm starting to figure out that there is a certain pattern in how mutes are suppose to be mixed, so I would to get an understanding on why cal mag should be added first?
 

Malevolence

New Member
Veg
Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt, Grow, cal/mag, ph up/down, aquashield

Bloom
Dyna-Gro Bloom, cal/mag, (sweet), ph up/down, aquashield

This is a non-organic line-up except for your bennies. Having the nutes in a form available for immediate uptake by the roots as opposed to organics that need to be processed into nutes for the plant will give everything your plant needs immediately and on demand. But, the main benefit for running synthetic in DWC is that hydro method is very susceptible to slime, and organic material in the res can trigger slime very easily if you get lazy with bennies/sterilizers.

I have never used h2o2 so I don't know about dosage and all that. It would seem if it's strong enough to kill anaerobic pathogens it might be strong enough to kill enzymes too, but if you are free of slime and algae and root rot it would seem it's working fine and you have no worries.

I also have heard people mix cal/mag first... I believe this is to first add ph buffer to r/o water. Pure water is dead and very hard to measure ph because there is just nothing in it. Anyway, I think it's for a ph base or something. I just mix it in later like an additive... never noticed precipitation or anything like that. It's possible I'm doing it wrong and no one ever explained it to me.
 

Nizza

Well-Known Member
I always add cal mag first because the base mutes buffer the water down more and if you add cal mag after the base mutes the ph takes longer to stabilize. Protekt or silicates always first though , and the other additives last (for synthetic) I wasn't aware of the order for using beneficial it's something I have yet to fully understand
 
In my opinion I kept my DWC at a PH of 6-6.2 and never had a nutrient deficiency issue or lockout. The literature states that for DWC and hydro A Ph of 5.5-6.5 is warranted while a Ph of 7 is appropriate for soil.
 
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