-boring 'ol 230w 154lm/w led strip build

Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Actually we look at umol as you stated before. HPS spectrum is no more efficient and in fact the lumen to umol conversion is greater for HPS (so you end up with less umol per lumen).

Either way, HPS produces 1150umol/s for 600W ie 1.9umol/s/w. The 154lm/W strips come out at 2.1umol/s/W. So indeed that's only a small advantage for the led. Sill, at this price point that's already fine.

However the real losses with HPS are further down the line. An HPS bulb produces 1.9umol/s/W, but then you lose 20% of the light on the reflector. So then you are left with 1.5umol/s/W leaving the reflector on its way to the plants..

Then come the wall losses. A 600W HPS needs to be at about 20" to 24" above the plants. At lets say 1% per inch of height (for a 4'x4' tent woth decent reflective walls) makes it a 20% loss at least. Which means you end up with 1.2umol/s/W by the time the light reaches the plants.

Led strips can be at 4" and lose only 4%. So from that 2.1umol/s/W you end up with 2.0umol/s/W by the time it reaches the plants. Although in fairness, a lot of the growers here seem to hang their lights at 18" or something so they needlessly incur extra losses.

Still even if we leave those wall losses out, 1.5umol/s/W leaving the HPS reflector vs 2.1umol/s leaving the led strips is still quite a decent advantage for the leds.
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This has been explained to him (one way or another) so many times. He refuses to understand.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Actually we look at umol as you stated before. HPS spectrum is no more efficient and in fact the lumen to umol conversion is greater for HPS (so you end up with less umol per lumen).

Either way, HPS produces 1150umol/s for 600W ie 1.9umol/s/w. The 154lm/W strips come out at 2.1umol/s/W. So indeed that's only a small advantage for the led. Sill, at this price point that's already fine.

However the real losses with HPS are further down the line. An HPS bulb produces 1.9umol/s/W, but then you lose 20% of the light on the reflector. So then you are left with 1.5umol/s/W leaving the reflector on its way to the plants..

Then come the wall losses. A 600W HPS needs to be at about 20" to 24" above the plants. At lets say 1% per inch of height (for a 4'x4' tent woth decent reflective walls) makes it a 20% loss at least. Which means you end up with 1.2umol/s/W by the time the light reaches the plants.

Led strips can be at 4" and lose only 4%. So from that 2.1umol/s/W you end up with 2.0umol/s/W by the time it reaches the plants. Although in fairness, a lot of the growers here seem to hang their lights at 18" or something so they needlessly incur extra losses.

Still even if we leave those wall losses out, 1.5umol/s/W leaving the HPS reflector vs 2.1umol/s leaving the led strips is still quite a decent advantage for the leds.
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Well stated, however you did not account for the additional IR that HPS has, LEDs lack that in the spectrum that's why i said the HPS spectrum is more desirable. Also LEDs have poor intensity since their light source is more spread out so you need to keep them close to the plants , i'd imagine these strips would need to be no further than 12 inches away and probably around 8 inches would be best so you will have very poor coverage and very poor distance to light.

Bottom line is a 600w hps would crush 600w of these LED strips, they have a very poor light distribution they cannot be far at all from canopy, these are for micro grows.

In the real world all those bloated numbers you are saying do not pan out, LEDs have too much blue in them , that's why they output such high PAR but do not convert to flowering plants as well as a quality HPS. White LEDs are blue LEDs with a spray coating on them, the spectrum is not desirable for flowering, they could make a great veg light but they also lack UV which is essential to vegging and flowering plants.

Until a true side by side is done with equal wattage all the LED numbers and bloviating is nothing more than conjecture, HPS is tried and true. All the grows i see with these strips are pretty disappointing, could be the growers or it could be the lights, i have not been impressed from what i have seen one iota.
 
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wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Well stated, however you did not account for the additional IR that HPS has, LEDs lack that in the spectrum that's why i said the HPS spectrum is more desirable.
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That's debatable. Only one test grow showed marginal advantage for HPS in that respect. Without keeping inmind that you can raise the temperature of the room and achieve the same.

Also LEDs have poor intensity since their light source is more spread out so you need to keep them close to the plants
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That's nonsense. you CAN keep them close to the plants which is an advantage. ie 20% less wall losses potentially.

Bottom line is a 600w hps would crush 600w of these LED strips
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That's complete and utter nonsense. Time and time we have shown here that it's the other way around. And that's from when people were using 134lm/W CXA leds.

Until a true side by side is done with equal wattage all the LED numbers and bloviating is nothing more than conjecture, HPS is tried and true.
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Read this whole LED subsection of the forum. Not one DIY led gets beaten by HPS. What rock have you been living under?
 
N

nmibud

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Well stated, however you did not account for the additional IR that HPS has, LEDs lack that in the spectrum that's why i said the HPS spectrum is more desirable. Also LEDs have poor intensity since their light source is more spread out so you need to keep them close to the plants , i'd imagine these strips would need to be no further than 12 inches away and probably around 8 inches would be best so you will have very poor coverage and very poor distance to light.

Bottom line is a 600w hps would crush 600w of these LED strips, they have a very poor light distribution they cannot be far at all from canopy, these are for micro grows.

In the real world all those bloated numbers you are saying do not pan out, LEDs have too much blue in them , that's why they output such high PAR but do not convert to flowering plants as well as a quality HPS. White LEDs are blue LEDs with a spray coating on them, the spectrum is not desirable for flowering, they could make a great veg light but they also lack UV which is essential to vegging and flowering plants.

Until a true side by side is done with equal wattage all the LED numbers and bloviating is nothing more than conjecture, HPS is tried and true. All the grows i see with these strips are pretty disappointing, could be the growers or it could be the lights, i have not been impressed from what i have seen one iota.
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Have you actually grown with these strips?I do, and they work just fine!Your bias is in ignorance of the facts.These strips are far cheaper than hps,and produce very little heat.Instead of insulting something you know nothing about just move on with your old world tech.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
That's debatable. Only one test grow showed marginal advantage for HPS in that respect. Without keeping inmind that you can raise the temperature of the room and achieve the same.

That's nonsense. you CAN keep them close to the plants which is an advantage. ie 20% less wall losses potentially.

That's complete and utter nonsense. Time and time we have shown here that it's the other way around. And that's from when people were using 134lm/W CXA leds.

Read this whole LED subsection of the forum. Not one DIY led gets beaten by HPS. What rock have you been living under?
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I reserve my judgement until I do a side by side or another quality grower does. You could be right about DIY being better but there's no quality grow comparisons so everything seems to be hypothetical.
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
nmibud said:
Have you actually grown with these strips?I do, and they work just fine!Your bias is in ignorance of the facts.These strips are far cheaper than hps,and produce very little heat.Instead of insulting something you know nothing about just move on with your old world tech.
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You know nothing, heat is produced by watts used, 100w of LED strips = 100w of hps , first law of thermodynamics.

You are the ignorant one, ignorant of the facts and laws of physics.

You LED fanboys can bash me all you want, but it does not make your right.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
I reserve my judgement until I do a side by side or another quality grower does. You could be right about DIY being better but there's no quality grow comparisons so everything seems to be hypothetical.
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What on earth do you think people have been doing here since 2014? Tons of grow reports that put HPS grows to shame.

Even with "low" efficiency leds from years ago. I used to get around 1.5g/W on average even with my first a 2.0umol/s/W DIY light. While with Gavita Pro HPS I would get on average 1.1g/W. With similar 550 to 600g/m2.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
You LED fanboys can bash me all you want, but it does not make your right.
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We are bashing you because you keep ignoring blatantly obvious facts. I guess that's how it goes nowadays in the US, but in the real world facts still matter. People have been yielding more per watt with leds for years now.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
We are bashing you because you keep ignoring blatantly obvious facts. I guess that's how it goes nowadays in the US, but in the real world facts still matter. People have been yielding more per watt with leds for years now.
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WTF is that supposed to mean?..... Breaking out the broad brush again I see
 
Yodaweed

Yodaweed

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
What on earth do you think people have been doing here since 2014? Tons of grow reports that put HPS grows to shame.

Even with "low" efficiency leds from years ago. I used to get around 1.5g/W on average even with my first a 2.0umol/s/W DIY light. While with Gavita Pro HPS I would get on average 1.1g/W. With similar 550 to 600g/m2.
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Nice, you got a side by side done or nah?
If not it's all just opinion, you might have become a better grower or used larger yielding strains. Too many factors unless you perform an actual side by side comparison using the same of everything besides the lights.
 
N

nmibud

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
You know nothing, heat is produced by watts used, 100w of LED strips = 100w of hps , first law of thermodynamics.

You are the ignorant one, ignorant of the facts and laws of physics.

You LED fanboys can bash me all you want, but it does not make your right.
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I forgot more about this than you will ever know,all the numbers don't mean a fucking thing! The only thing that matters is",Does it grow cannabis?" Now just shut the fuck up!
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Yodaweed said:
Nice, you got a side by side done or nah?
If not it's all just opinion, you might have become a better grower or used larger yielding strains. Too many factors unless you perform an actual side by side comparison using the same of everything besides the lights.
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No not side by side, but one after the other. Same strain, same light intensity. Everything the same besides the light. I didn't even need to change the nutrients (apparently it had enough Ca in it).

Are you seriously suggesting that with HPS you can go from 1.1 to 1.5g/W from one grow to the next and then consistently keep that up? After using HPS for years I suddenly "learned how to grow"?

The only change I made was to go from HPS to led and that made no difference at all?

Go to any HPS forum and they will be getting 0.5 to 1.0g/W scores on average. See the led growers here and they are getting 1.0 to 2.0g/W scores. HPS vs led.

Or are you really saying that all HPS growers are simply bumbling idiots and that led growers are all experts overnight since they bought that lamp?
 
Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
wietefras said:
Well it's true.
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It's true the world over, friend. Every nation has its foolish and its wise. Making sweeping statements about a country in which you do not live and about people you do not know? Honestly, that reminds me of the kind of American you're denigrating, man. That's exactly the kind of hyperbole employed by the extreme left and right here in the States. If the human race wishes to conquer the kind of ignorance you're talking about, it will require that we disengage from the us-and-them mentality you're manifesting.
 
wietefras

wietefras

Well-Known Member
Humple said:
It's true the world over, friend. Every nation has its foolish and its wise.
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That's not how that works. Are male runners slower women because there are fast woman that can outrun me? We're talking averages here. On average "muricans" are much more prone to take opinion over fact and simply ignore truths when they are uttered by people from another camp (religion, ideology, state, country ... whatever it is that makes them feel their opinions don't align).

Making sweeping statements about a country in which you do not live and about people you do not know?
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I know plenty and lived there too. That's why I say this. I can see the difference for myself.

Although I have to admit that idiocracy is also happening in Europe, but to a much much lesser extent than in the US. ie Averages
 
macmanaman

macmanaman

Member
hi guys

day 83 59 days 12/12

IMG_0388.JPG IMG_0408 (2).JPG IMG_0409 (3).JPG IMG_0412 (3).JPG IMG_0393 (3).JPG

nice relaxed light to grow under .
i used to grow 150 watts hps which produce more heat .
and gave me 90 grams of nuggs .

i don t know what this 92 watt led strips will bring .

but it will keep me perpetual smoking pot . :-))
 
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