bodhi seeds

Nutbag Poster

Nutbag Poster

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I don't know why I was expecting there to be some selection.
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It's a reasonable question. He does do selections and inbreeding with some like Puple Unicorn and Dragonsblood., and usually labels them as such. Some of the Goji cuts are from extra generations too. And the ghash male is inbred if you read the backstory, but it isn't often listed that way. I'm not even positive the SSDD male is an F1... something in the back of my head makes me think I might possibly have heard F2 somewhere, sometime, but definitely don't quote me on that. Not a dumb question at all, anyway.
 
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Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
Nutbag Poster said:
It's a reasonable question. He does do selections and inbreeding with some like Puple Unicorn and Dragonsblood., and usually labels them as such. Some of the Goji cuts are from extra generations too. And the ghash male is inbred if you read the backstory, but it isn't often listed that way. I'm not even positive the SSDD male is an F1... something in the back of my head makes me think I might possibly have heard F2 somewhere, sometime, but definitely don't quote me on that. Not a dumb question at all, anyway.
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I'm still a little taken back at how easy it would be to just duplicate his work. Good for him that he has what I would expect is a great cash flowing business.

From business perspective it makes no sense to me but wtf do I really know? Very little!
 
SNEAKYp

SNEAKYp

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I'm still a little taken back at how easy it would be to just duplicate his work. Good for him that he has what I would expect is a great cash flowing business.

From business perspective it makes no sense to me but wtf do I really know? Very little!
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I wouldn't bet any amount of money on it being easy, seeing the variety that pop up through his crosses shows the genetic diversity that is present.

Breeding isn't as simple as take A and cross to B, and you get AB. It's more like you get AB, Ab, & aB, and that's if you are using true breeding IBL strains which he is most certainly not in most cases. IBL in breeding means that every single plant grown is the same, extreme uniformity. That takes multiple inbreeding generations and even then cannabis expressing genes is dependent on environment as well.

Bodhi is using genetically diverse parents which means that the end result would be close to impossible to replicate with good accuracy. His selections from the parental stock greatly affects the end result as well so unless you had the exact same P1 and P2 plants it's going to vary.

Hope that helps clear things up :D
 
Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
SNEAKYp said:
I wouldn't bet any amount of money on it being easy, seeing the variety that pop up through his crosses shows the genetic diversity that is present.

Breeding isn't as simple as take A and cross to B, and you get AB. It's more like you get AB, Ab, & aB, and that's if you are using true breeding IBL strains which he is most certainly not in most cases. IBL in breeding means that every single plant grown is the same, extreme uniformity. That takes multiple inbreeding generations and even then cannabis expressing genes is dependent on environment as well.

Bodhi is using genetically diverse parents which means that the end result would be close to impossible to replicate with good accuracy. His selections from the parental stock greatly affects the end result as well so unless you had the exact same P1 and P2 plants it's going to vary.

Hope that helps clear things up :D
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I understand what you are saying but the question sort of remains as to what kind of selection goes on before making a cross, or between crosses. If there isn’t any selection then I don’t think a case coul be made that it would be hard to duplicate . For example I could buy a pack of SSDD and Three Kings open polllinate them and come up with the same Sunshine Queen. I would like to point out that I have no idea what the mans process is so I’m not saying what he does or doesn’t do.

This is not a new discussion, reading back there are discussions of the degree of breeding actually going on.

I’m only trying to get a handle on what the process is and not criticizing.
 
mawasmada

mawasmada

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I understand what you are saying but the question sort of remains as to what kind of selection goes on before making a cross, or between crosses. If there isn’t any selection then I don’t think a case coul be made that it would be hard to duplicate . For example I could buy a pack of SSDD and Three Kings open polllinate them and come up with the same Sunshine Queen. I would like to point out that I have no idea what the mans process is so I’m not saying what he does or doesn’t do.

This is not a new discussion, reading back there are discussions of the degree of breeding actually going on.

I’m only trying to get a handle on what the process is and not criticizing.
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Your idea is possible, but faaaar from probable. If there's enough pheno variation, that may be nowhere near enough parent stock to find that combo.
 
2seepictures

2seepictures

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I understand what you are saying but the question sort of remains as to what kind of selection goes on before making a cross, or between crosses. If there isn’t any selection then I don’t think a case coul be made that it would be hard to duplicate . For example I could buy a pack of SSDD and Three Kings open polllinate them and come up with the same Sunshine Queen. I would like to point out that I have no idea what the mans process is so I’m not saying what he does or doesn’t do.

This is not a new discussion, reading back there are discussions of the degree of breeding actually going on.

I’m only trying to get a handle on what the process is and not criticizing.
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My assumption is that the real work involved is not only finding a male that has a lot of desirable traits but observing what is passed on to the offspring when crossed to females that he's intimately familiar with in crosses. In your scenario the "Sunshine Queen" you make might be really good, but it wouldn't necessarily be the same or even similar to Bodhi's given you used different males. I don't know what sort of numbers Bodhi is selecting from, but in my opinion you could definitely find very special males to use in crosses from these packs. From what I remember in his PotCast interview he encourages people to play around with these genetics as long as they aren't selling F2s of his current lines or something like that, but my memory might be a bit fuzzy.
 
hillbill

hillbill

Well-Known Member
Multi-generation type selection is carried on by very few breeders today, especially in US. So many strains also have Hermies in their ancestry which may show in future generations. Seedfinder ancestor charts keep getting longer all the time. Lots of mishing and mashing.

Markets demand new products and always will. We all feed the madness.

Bodhi's way seems to be to always be moving on to the next best thing anyway.

Been extremely happy overall with Bodhi here, his shit will get you high.
 
Nutbag Poster

Nutbag Poster

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I understand what you are saying but the question sort of remains as to what kind of selection goes on before making a cross, or between crosses. If there isn’t any selection then I don’t think a case coul be made that it would be hard to duplicate .
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Don't think he doesn't do very careful selection and testing with his breeding males, just because he doesn't inbreed them.
 
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D

Devils34

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
I’m not sure I understand what you mean , would you care to expand on what you’re saying?
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He's saying lets say you try to duplicate one of his crosses....even then it would turn out differently because every plant has different phenos and you finding and selecting the SAME exact ones as him would be damn near impossible. Like take Greenhouse Seeds Super Lemon Haze for example....anyone can breed lemon skunk to super silver haze....but would it turn out exactly how theirs did? No. Not unless you selected the same pheno from both parents, but lets say both strains throw out 5+ phenos....it makes it very unlikely that you would select the same exact ones they did.
 
Rufus T. Firefly

Rufus T. Firefly

Well-Known Member
Devils34 said:
He's saying lets say you try to duplicate one of his crosses....even then it would turn out differently because every plant has different phenos and you finding and selecting the SAME exact ones as him would be damn near impossible. Like take Greenhouse Seeds Super Lemon Haze for example....anyone can breed lemon skunk to super silver haze....but would it turn out exactly how theirs did? No. Not unless you selected the same pheno from both parents, but lets say both strains throw out 5+ phenos....it makes it very unlikely that you would select the same exact ones they did.
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OK, that’s what I thought.

But the discussion has now moved back into there is a selection process, as opposed to not being one. If you look at Bodhi’s IG you would notice a couple of pics of males in a room with a whole bunch of mothers. I think it’s reasonable to assume the male has been selected. Is it reasonable to assume all the mothers have been selected as the same pheno or do you think many or all phenols are represented?

It seems to me that its possible that my pack of a Bodhi cross could be really different than your pack of his same cross. And in that sense that how would that be different than sombodie else’s cross of the same parents. If that makes sense.
 
2seepictures

2seepictures

Well-Known Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
OK, that’s what I thought.

But the discussion has now moved back into there is a selection process, as opposed to not being one. If you look at Bodhi’s IG you would notice a couple of pics of males in a room with a whole bunch of mothers. I think it’s reasonable to assume the male has been selected. Is it reasonable to assume all the mothers have been selected as the same pheno or do you think many or all phenols are represented?

It seems to me that its possible that my pack of a Bodhi cross could be really different than your pack of his same cross. And in that sense that how would that be different than sombodie else’s cross of the same parents. If that makes sense.
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I think I see what you're asking, and I think some of the confusion revolves around the term "Mother". His mother plants are not only the mom in the cross but also termed Mother because they are used to spawn "clones" via cuttings. I don't have IG so I'm not familiar with the post you're referencing but let's assume you see 1 wookie 15 male and 20 GG4 females. It's safe to assume those GG4s were propagated via cutting and for all practical purposes are genetically identical. There will be genetic variation from seed to seed but all those packs of Space Monkey (GG4 x Wookie 15) were derived from the same parental stock.
 
C

Cannab15

Active Member
Rufus T. Firefly said:
OK, that’s what I thought.

But the discussion has now moved back into there is a selection process, as opposed to not being one. If you look at Bodhi’s IG you would notice a couple of pics of males in a room with a whole bunch of mothers. I think it’s reasonable to assume the male has been selected. Is it reasonable to assume all the mothers have been selected as the same pheno or do you think many or all phenols are represented?

It seems to me that its possible that my pack of a Bodhi cross could be really different than your pack of his same cross. And in that sense that how would that be different than sombodie else’s cross of the same parents. If that makes sense.
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Most of the females used are clone only so there is no selection on that side as long as you can get that elite cut. Ex. If you have the loompas headband it is a specific plant, no variation as it's not a plant from a pack of seed but a specific plant that someone has and is known to be good. That selection has been done by others.
In the case of the females from his own stock he is selecting specific plants out of large grows for the traits he wants. It's not a open pollination or a random selection, or a small selection. You only want an open pollination to keep all the genes around if you don't know what you are looking for. Once you know what you want you try to narrow down the genes to what you want so it's more predictable what the seeds will be like.
 
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