Black Dog LED new Universal series

This new Black Dog caught my eye: http://www.blackdogled.com/BD360-U.html

I've heard good things about Black Dog though people referencing them on the forums but I've never seen a journal with one. They seem like a pretty complete light using now 5W diodes in the new universal series as well as IR and UV for flower. Supposedly a full spectrum light that you can flower and veg with. Does anyone have any opinions on it or know of any grows or journals with BD's? I realize that there probably won't be any journals with this particular model as it has just come out, but any thoughts or opinions are appreciated.

some posts over blackdogled

first one
https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/486179-led-companies-w-links-58.html#post8239618

Welcome back~ haven't seen your post for a long time.
The panels look nice, i am wondering if they offer a LED light with secondary lens. Any more information about this light, how many serieses per lamp, how many power supplies, what's the input current at each LED, if one LED burnt, should we send the whole lamp back to the USA for repair? I had an old version blackdog 11band LED panel, but sold to my friend some months ago.
BTW, I don't care if the LED is 5W or 3W, I am only interested in the size of the LED chips, 45mil or larger? Why only run at 2.4W actual draw.

I have some of the old Black Dog LED panels, but I also upgraded to the universal Platinum. The thing is a beast--way more substantial than the old platinum that I have. It puts out a lot of light, and the spectrum looks pretty rich. But the most important thing is that my girls responded really well to the lights. I'm working on a journal (check my signature) that has been kind of slow going but I'm going to have some really good photos up there soon, and hopefully a timelapse as well. There's a short video in my signature as well (pardon the quality, haha) that has some pictures of plants run full cycle under black dog lights.

There was someone posting about black dog on here last year if you dig around. His name was buddha? bodhisatva? Something like that.

^^siddhartha was posting about the bd xl. The new universal series look good.

https://www.rollitup.org/led-other-lighting/533891-black-dog-platinum-xl-led.html

They look really interesting! Thanks for the journal link I'm very curious to know what Siddhartha ended up with from his Blueberry grow which he didn't journal. I wonder how much more performance the 5W diodes will lend over the 3W from the previous lamps. Black Dog seems to have their spectrum pretty well balanced.

Personally Red i'd go with CLW products...............Very high quality components throughout and have actuall uv-b bulbs(t8 ) instead of leds which aren't effective yet.
Also use Real 5watt ledengin emitters driven at 4.2w average......real nice stuff IMO

How you liking your philips CMH brother??

after testing this new magnum plus2 for just over a month I can't see how a 15" square light will blast out a 4x4 footprint. This magnum plus2 says it has a 4x4 and that light is twice the size of this one.

PSUAGRO. said:

Personally Red i'd go with CLW products...............Very high quality components throughout and have actuall uv-b bulbs(t8 ) instead of leds which aren't effective yet. Also use Real 5watt ledengin emitters driven at 4.2w average......real nice stuff IMO How you liking your philips CMH brother??

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I was also looking at the CLW light a while ago and something about it didn't sit quite right but I honestly can't remember what that was. I like to revisit LED lights once or twice a year to see if any progress has been made which it seems like it has. Every now and again I think about testing out one of the latest and greatest LED's on the market just to see how they perform, but I never pull the trigger. About a two years ago I bought 2 180w Grow LED Hydro lights from Mike which I actually really like a lot. I think he did a great job with them and probably has even better ones out now. I went through a T5 aquarium spectrum obsession phase with one of the threads on here and did a grow with a few T5 lamps. It was good for what it was and I don't regret it, or the investment I made in it. It was a good educational experience.

I really like the CMH a lot! It's a terrific bulb and the OG is a wonderful hood, although I do wish it had a slightly bigger footprint. Kind of wish there was a 600w CMH out instead of just a 320w or supposedly an 800w (don't understand why that's not available). I was actually surprised at the yield I got off of it although the buds were smaller and to say that trimming was a motherfucker would be an understatement. But they were absolutely top quality which is what you get from that full spectrum. I find myself dishearteningly returning time and time again to HPS which seems to produce the largest yields. Now other lights, including the LED's that I already own, probably produce better quality buds to varying degrees, but for some ridiculous reason, the HPS lamps haven't yet been surpassed by new technology. The ideal would be the yield of and HPS combined with the quality of a CHM, LED, of T5. Plasma has promise but I'd say that technology won't be perfected for another 5 years and as of now they are not a standalone flower bulb. I don't want to hate on HPS, they are great for what they do, and I really like the Gavita 600w HPS that I own, even thinking of trying one or two of their plasmas to use in veg and one in flower next to my hps.

I keep hoping that LED catches up for any number of reasons because I think they have many advantages like being able to customize your spectrum and not containing any mercury. Maybe they just aren't quite there yet but who knows, a game changer LED might be just around the corner.....
until then I will continue to tinker and experiment. I don't mind investing in experimental technology. There's something fun and addictive about it, and this hobby in general!

Mikes lights are trash, old ones good, new ones bad, he tried to sell his own business grow led hydro for 300k.
Im not one to bash, but he did to many people dirty, including me, and gave a bad rep to led grow lights.

I have never used black dog led, but those are the lights i would buy if I was going to lay down big money again.
The thing that has happend is led do beat hps watt for watt. I grew using 4 210 true watt penetrator x pro knock offs. I got each light for 215 shipped. It beat my 600w hps grow by a lot, yield, bag appeal, frostiness. Even the nugs were denser. I would say I got 1000w hps results, but never used a 1000w in a tent.
Once you buy multiple smaller led, get them all even around your canopy, your golden. Those multiple smaller are way better then one big light source in the middle. Right now, Im using 8 140 true watt blackstar knockoffs, custom spectrum. Thats 1100 watts of led. Going to do a grow journal soon on these china lights, so people can see these are some good lights to grow with, cost efficient. I honestly don't touch my hps anymore (to much wasted light/energy), still use warm cfls and t5s though.

PSUAGRO. said:

Personally Red i'd go with CLW products...............Very high quality components throughout and have actuall uv-b bulbs(t8 ) instead of leds which aren't effective yet.
Also use Real 5watt ledengin emitters driven at 4.2w average......real nice stuff IMO

How you liking your philips CMH brother??

Click to expand...

From what I understand, UV B radiation is not particularly beneficial to plants. UV B exists within the range of 315-280 nm, which is well outside the accepted range of light used by plants during photosynthesis.

Here's a chart I found at growguide.com that offers a decent explanation of which nanometers are usefull (or not) to plants.



What this means to me? Anything below approx. 380 nm isn't useful, therefore a waste of energy.

This article shows that UV-B light (generated from Philips lamps) decreased the pigment content of the pea plants being studied. Note that in the chart above, the UV-B range of light causes the plants' color to fade... because of a pigment decrease. Pigments are the things that use light energy for photosynthesis and other functions with beneficial byproducts, which makes me question why anyone (here, California Light Works) would include a pigment-suppressing wavelength in a plant grow light. Seems like shoddy research to me.

^^^^lol another Rep

1.....you can choose NOT to turn on the UV-b bulbs .....also make solarflares with no bulbs at all

2... Not growing peas, but CANNABIS ........ maybe you should study what this plant does when it is exposed to UV-b/ Hint: it forms a layer of protection like all other plants ....... you should check if sunlight has UV-b... lol

3...Your same "chart" shows that UV-a is NOT beneficial to plants BUT blackdog led thinks it is?? http://www.blackdogled.com/bd360-u.html <<unfortunately you can't turn OFF that "feature" Please tell them to email you what UV-a emitters their using that are effective(i know of none) or tell us ANY of their 5 watt led's being used(bin # and ACTUAL manufacturer used/ HINT : NOT EPISTAR!suck anyways )

4 ... Still like CLW products WAY more than Black Dog until they tell us what ACTUAL LEDS their using to justify that price tag!!!!!
ClW uses LEDENGIN 5watt emitters and they are very good, Hence the price.....

Swiftowl11 said:

Mikes lights are trash, old ones good, new ones bad, he tried to sell his own business grow led hydro for 300k. Im not one to bash, but he did to many people dirty, including me, and gave a bad rep to led grow lights. I have never used black dog led, but those are the lights i would buy if I was going to lay down big money again. The thing that has happend is led do beat hps watt for watt. I grew using 4 210 true watt penetrator x pro knock offs. I got each light for 215 shipped. It beat my 600w hps grow by a lot, yield, bag appeal, frostiness. Even the nugs were denser. I would say I got 1000w hps results, but never used a 1000w in a tent. Once you buy multiple smaller led, get them all even around your canopy, your golden. Those multiple smaller are way better then one big light source in the middle. Right now, Im using 8 140 true watt blackstar knockoffs, custom spectrum. Thats 1100 watts of led. Going to do a grow journal soon on these china lights, so people can see these are some good lights to grow with, cost efficient. I honestly don't touch my hps anymore (to much wasted light/energy), still use warm cfls and t5s though.

Click to expand...

That's disappointing about Mikes business. He started out so well, being one of the first quality makers of LEDs when the industry was still in its infancy. It's actually amazing to think that the LED's infancy was only 2-3 years ago. It's nice that technology is progressing so quickly.

It is encouraging to hear that people are able to roughly match HPS yields with LED. In theory this should be possible. I still do think you need to match it watt for watt. People used to get hung up on trying to match or outperform HPS using half the wattage with LED's. I believe the LED industry does itself a disservice by choosing to advertise in that way. I must say that I have read many an LED journal where the author does concede at the end that they were disappointed with their yield or expected bigger buds. Quality never seems to be in question though. This is what has kept me out of going in on an LED lately. It can be difficult to time these things properly, like buying a new computer. The second you actually do it, it's obsolete because something seeming better and groundbreaking comes on the market and you wind up kicking yourself. Why didn't I just wait 3 more months!

I definitely agree with running more smaller units as opposed to one big one. I'd say this principle probably applies to any light. I certainly look foreword to your journal or any others you might recommend showcasing good LED grows. When you say you have a custom spectrum, is that something you put together yourself and picked your own bulbs?

GreenGuyLED said:

after testing this new magnum plus2 for just over a month I can't see how a 15" square light will blast out a 4x4 footprint. This magnum plus2 says it has a 4x4 and that light is twice the size of this one.

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How is that new Magnum Plus2? That caught my eye as well. Are you going to do a journal with it?

EDIT: Oops never mind, I just realize that the Mag+2 journal I've been reading is yours haha! I am excited to see it in flower. What are your impressions so far and were there any other lights you considered trying besides the Mag?

Lol get it PSUAGRO!

rockin it brother.. I am getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on CLW.. but where to get our replacement bulbs? <-----nvm

Perhaps I'm beating a dead horse by resurrecting this thread, but I'm intrigued. Does anyone have a documented grow with a Solarstorm light? I've read in a few places that by placing these lights at the required distance from the canopy (due to the LEDs), the amount of UVB that reaches the plants is negligable.

I'm still inclined to call it a gimmick, but I'm not one to judge without solid evidence. Anyone know of any documented side by side grows that show a real difference from the UVB bulbs?

You'd have to document resin production, no? That's the argued benefit of UV on mmj. I don't think this is specific to LED. Do some searches of growers using reptile bulbs as supplemental or something, imo.

And I mean how many inches above the canopy would the bulbs be? People tan with UVB flouros all the time and it's recommended @ 30 minutes a day. Blasting plants with UV for 12 hours a day inches from the canopy doesn't sound like fun for anyone.

Bumping Spheda said:

You'd have to document resin production, no? That's the argued benefit of UV on mmj. I don't think this is specific to LED. Do some searches of growers using reptile bulbs as supplemental or something, imo.

And I mean how many inches above the canopy would the bulbs be? People tan with UVB flouros all the time and it's recommended @ 30 minutes a day. Blasting plants with UV for 12 hours a day inches from the canopy doesn't sound like fun for anyone.

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I would think an analysis of THC content of the final product would be the most revealing, as that's the compound that is produces in response to UVB. I have read quite a few anecdotal accounts of people growing with supplemental reptile bulbs, but I prefer images and statistical analysis.

As for the distance factor, the OP was referring to CLW products, in which the UVB bulb is part of the unit and must therefore be kept at the same distance from the canopy as the LED panel. My personal studies have led me to believe that outdoor plants located in regions with maximum UVB radiation (higher elevations, low atmospheric ozone) receive 250 uw/cm^2 of UVB at a particular stretch of the day, and I wonder at the amount that reaches the canopy of plants grown under these solar storm panels. Again, I've only read anecdotal accounts, would prefer more solid evidence.

Just throwing it out there in case anyone has any good evidence. All in the name of science!

Well ...
In certain parts of Earth, it can reach up to 500mW / m^2 for a while (during noon ) ....("Uvb" part of 280~350 nm )
(i.e . somewhere at an Australian desert )..


Nothing is sure about UV radiation and plants ...

Not many researches and sometimes ambiguous results released ...

Anyway ...
In nature certain plants do get irradiated with radiation starting at ~250 nm in certain cases ...But of really low powers ...

Plants do react to high energy carrying ,radiation (not "light " as we use the term ...) ..
They react to protect themshelves from DNA harming radiation and violent water molecules vibrations caused,
as uv photon energy is realeased inside leaf cell structure ...

Water "breaks " and free oxygen roots form (plenty ..i.e . -O-O- or -O- or -O-O-O- ) which harm DNA structure and other structures of a living cell ..
(i.e. like nucleus and cell membranes )...

Plants react ,by biosynthesis(and by structuring relative "supportive " mechanisms like glands ..) of a really wide range of substances ,known as "anti-oxidants " ,
which may be vitamins ,waxes ,terpenes ,flavonoids,lipids ,proteins ,pigments ,THC-A , ect .....


From here on ,misty lands start ...

Walk with care ...

Thanks, SDS.

I understand that plants react to UVB radiation to prevent DNA damage... I remember from plant phys that UVB creates thymine dimers, which if not repaired are absolutely lethal, and also that UVB causes denaturation of essential components of photosystem 2. I hypothesize that only certain strains of MMJ (those that evolved in areas of high UVB irradiance) will respond well to proper amounts of UVB radiation, while those strains that evolved in areas of lower UVB irradiance will be overrun by mutations, or at very least the UVB will degrade photosystem 2 to such an extent that you get significantly reduced yields.