Bill Maher Stands Up For Ron Paul & Calls His Audience Brainwashed Liberals

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Little history lesson for those who think Julius was Emperor of Rome.

Julius Caesar never became Emperor of Rome, he was assassinated as Dictator of Rome.
Well he was dictator for life at the time of his assassination. Caesar Augustus never held the title of dictator either yet he ruled Rome for more than 40 years. Emperors didn't go by the title emperor at that time. It's a title history gave them.
 

desert dude

Well-Known Member
You are right about dispensaries, I see them and the MM guys as simply extensions of the war on drugs. They want to keep things just as they, illegal, because that's how they make their money.

I am not sure what you mean by, "owning the means of production".

If a Democratic president can be forced by "neo cons" to do his bidding, then what is the point of voting for him in the first place.

All this proves to me is that you choose to believe, despite the facts, that Obama cares at all about cannabis prohibition. BO will happily throw you in prison for the rest of your life if it will buy 10 votes.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Yes, even though Julius Caesar is the reason why the Roman Republic fell and the Roman Empire rose. Julius wasn't some social care taker in president, the man was a Dictator and sparked civil war in the country.

If this is your idea of a great leader..
Julius Caesar isn't why the republic fell. The republic fell because it represented the interests of the wealthy elites and ignored the interests of the people. Caesar had the full support of the Roman people. He couldn't have become dictator without them. The senatorial/wealthy class was screwing over the people so badly, they preferred having an emperor.

So lets not pretend Rome was a democracy until Caesar came along. The leadership of Rome was reserved for the elite class, and only represented the elite class. Over throwing the senate was the closest thing the Roman people had gotten to choosing their representation in hundreds of years.

And yes he was a social care taker. Between his infrastructure projects, jobs programs, land grants, etc the Julius Caesar and Augustus Caesar brought the Roman people a level of prosperity they'd never seen before.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Really, I am shocked at the people applauding Caesar lmao!
If you actually knew history, and not just the cliff notes version they teach in schools, you would too.

I hope they aren't Christians that would be a double whammy...
Caesar wasn't even aware of Christianity. He did not persecute the Christians. They were a cult of probably a couple dozen people at the time. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of cults just like the Christians at the time.

but you know I guees I am not...It would be a blue pill taker to praise such a man,
Seems like those blue pills are making you ignorant.

In America well we have a bit more then that but basically it still goes back to Bread and circuses. America the new Rome eh?
How about infrastructure and jobs programs. That's what Caesar did in reality. Maybe in your comic book version of history it was about circuses, but in reality it was about food and jobs. People were starving in the streets because they wealthy owned all the land and rather than hire Roman citizens to do the work of the city, they outsourced and brought in slaves to do all the jobs. The Roman people had no way of supporting themselves. When ever they demanded the Roman government addressed that problem the government would spout off cheap rhetoric about how it was their money and they didn't owe people any of it. So the people took matters into their own hands and supported Caesar.

And then you know it all comes back full circle to what Bill Maherer said here, "Brain Washed Liberals" ...You see it was written that "Casear Gave them bread" so he must be good right?
Yes. The people were starving to death so the wealthy could profit more. Giving starving people bread is actually a good thing to do.
 

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
You are right about dispensaries, I see them and the MM guys as simply extensions of the war on drugs. They want to keep things just as they, illegal, because that's how they make their money.

I am not sure what you mean by, "owning the means of production".

If a Democratic president can be forced by "neo cons" to do his bidding, then what is the point of voting for him in the first place.

All this proves to me is that you choose to believe, despite the facts, that Obama cares at all about cannabis prohibition. BO will happily throw you in prison for the rest of your life if it will buy 10 votes.
Most Americans know nothing of "means of production" and believe that dollars are the same as wealth. You are just blindly anti-Obama which is different from if you were anti-Obama based on facts.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Your example is educational in the fact that Rome fell...
As has every dominant civilization in the history of the world. If empires didn't fall we'd all still be speaking English right now. oh wait...

The Roman empire lasted nearly 1500 hundred years after Caesar. We could do a lot worse.
 

deprave

New Member
Well he was dictator for life at the time of his assassination. Caesar Augustus never held the title of dictator either yet he ruled Rome for more than 40 years. Emperors didn't go by the title emperor at that time. It's a title history gave them.
What dictators 'OFFICIALLY' earned the title 'dictator' among dictators? What percentage would you say?
 

deprave

New Member
If you actually knew history, and not just the cliff notes version they teach in schools, you would too.
You don't mean Shakespear do you?

Caesar wasn't even aware of Christianity. He did not persecute the Christians. They were a cult of probably a couple dozen people at the time. There were hundreds, maybe thousands of cults just like the Christians at the time.
At the very least, He was pagan and he killed people.


How about infrastructure and jobs programs. That's what Caesar did in reality. Maybe in your comic book version of history it was about circuses, but in reality it was about food and jobs. People were starving in the streets because they wealthy owned all the land and rather than hire Roman citizens to do the work of the city, they outsourced and brought in slaves to do all the jobs. The Roman people had no way of supporting themselves. When ever they demanded the Roman government addressed that problem the government would spout off cheap rhetoric about how it was their money and they didn't owe people any of it. So the people took matters into their own hands and supported Caesar.



Yes. The people were starving to death so the wealthy could profit more. Giving starving people bread is actually a good thing to do.
Agreed Caesar did a lot for the ROMAN STATE a STATE which enslaved and murdered people. The economy was slave based. They had starving people because of the government, They farmed less because they were taxed for farming extra.
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
Who would applaud Caesar? Only a liberal can applaud a man who killed and enslaved millions, primarily on the basis of supporting their progressive agenda.

Those who forget the past: We must remember that what followed Caesar was nothing at all to be positive about.
Are condemned to repeat it: Our nation is following in a modern version of the footsteps of Rome (This is not a left-right thing, they are both involved). If I would put our current state anywhere on the Roman timeline, I would put us not long before Sulla.
 

deprave

New Member
Where the state begins, individual liberty ceases, and vice versa. We are truly free... only
when all human beings are equally free. The freedom of others is far from
negating or limiting our freedom, is, on the contrary, it is necessary.
The state is not your friend and the successes of the state is not parallel with the
success of the people.

Some Guy I don't remember his name said:
People don't enjoy getting hit by a stick. If the stick says "we the people" they don't feel any differently

The state maintains that only a their dictatorship, creates solely the will
of the people. No State, Nor corporation can have any other aim but that of self-perpetuation.
Ultimately It can perpetuate only through slavery while the people tolerate this. Things
have to get REALLY BAD...Tragically "REALLY BAD" in these times, it seems to have increased with
this system as they perfected this as long as civilized societies have been around.
Freedom can be created only by freedom, that is, by a universal rebellion on the part of the
people and free organization of the toiling masses from the bottom up.Today the people are even stronger with the information age. The state is very much aware and afraid of this so it is escalating its power grab.

You know what makes this even more interesting while I am on this subject. We are entering a new age even
on the greek calender of ages with 2012. This is the age of "coming out of the darkness" if you will. We
are entering from a time of apathy and great technological advancements into what I believe is a "Golden Age",
maybe I am wrong with the name but it is the one after 12 o clock. Exciting times...The awaking is coming and this is certainly good......So...In conclusion....Wake the hell up or GTFO....


[video=youtube;00jKiCc7w4w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00jKiCc7w4w[/video]
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
What dictators 'OFFICIALLY' earned the title 'dictator' among dictators? What percentage would you say?
100%. In Rome, a dictator was a dictator. It was an official and legal office in Rome. It was very common in the early republic during major wars. The office fell out of common use during the second punic war (Fabian) , but was brought back into use by Sulla when Caesar was a teenager. The difference between Sulla/Caesar and other dictators is that there was a law saying a dictator could only serve one year terms, with no one being allowed to serve the same office for 10 years after their term ended. But Rome used the office quite successfully for 500 years without any problems. It was very effective. But when Sulla opened the pandora's box by ignoring the law and declaring himself dictator for life, they couldn't put the toothpaste back in the tube at that point. Even though Sulla didn't abuse the office (retiring after a year if I remember), after he did that every powerful man in Rome was positioning himself to be dictator for life.

There were a lot of dictators in Rome's early history, I can't possibly name them all. But the important ones were Flavus, Cincinnatus, Camilus, Papirius, Fabius, Sulla, and Caesar. Julius Caesar was the last Roman dictator.

Dictator and Emperor were not the same office at all.

If you mean which emperors took the title emperor, that came much later in the empire. Caesar Augustus would NEVER let anyone call him emperor or anything close to that. He wouldn't even let people call him by his name Ausustus (meaning revered one). He insisted on being referred too as "first citizen". He stacked the senate with his own people and kept the appearance of senatorial power his whole career. The rest of the Julio-Claudian emperors followed in that pattern. It wasn't until Domitian I believe that Roman Emperor's accepted the title emperor officially. But he was kind of a power tripper who liked to be referred to as "the lord and god Domitian".

After that most took the title emperor. But the senate still existed until the 5th century. They just didn't have any power after Caesar. They were basically just a social club for the ultra wealthy at that point.
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
You don't mean Shakespear do you?
Ahhh. My bad. That makes sense. While Shakespeare was based on history, it was fiction. Caesar never said "eh tu Brute?" or anything like that. Caesar was only able to do what he did because he had full support of the people. While the Roman people did love their games, Caesar's popularity was largely due to his economic policies and infrastructure projects. He reduced the amount of slaves the senatorial/patrician classes were able to have as laborers on farms. He gave away much of the farm land from the provinces he conquered to the poor. Started free grain programs. Took teachers and doctors from around the provinces and paid them to live in Rome to take care of the lower classes. He built aqueducts, baths, etc. He was probably the best thing that ever happened to the common Roman person up to that point. He completely turned around the Roman economy and made it work for the people rather than just the senate. Before Caesar the attitude in the Roman government was that Rome existed for the benefit of the Senate and everyone else was just the help.

At the very least, He was pagan and he killed people.
He was a pagan, he definitely killed people, he was the most successful generals of all time, you can't be a successful general without killing people. But what he did not do was murder people outside of war. That's actually why he ended up murdered. Caesar was famous for his clemency. He would forgive all his enemies, even the ones who had raised armies against him, and brought them all back to rejoin the senate. So they killed him for it.

It was Caesar Augustus and Mark Anthony who were the real bloody ones, not Julius Caesar. The only blood he shed was in battle.

As for being a pagan, everyone in the Mediterranean from Egypt to Rome were all Pagans with the exception of the Jews. The Greeks, Syrians, Armenians, etc. All pagans. It was the norm in the world. There was nothing evil or wrong with being a pagan. All that means was they were polytheists.

Agreed Caesar did a lot for the ROMAN STATE a STATE which enslaved and murdered people. The economy was slave based. They had starving people because of the government, They farmed less because they were taxed for farming extra.
Actually that last part was not true. The people of Rome were not taxed until hundreds of years after the republic fell. They taxed their conquered lands, but Romans themselves did not pay taxes until I believe Septimius Severus was emperor (could be wrong about that, but it was definitely long after they were an empire). The government ran primarily on money/stuff they pillaged from other countries during the republic. Until Marius, I don't believe they actually even taxed the provinces, just asked for soldiers instead.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Bill Maher is a racist loser. I don't throw around the term loosely either. Bill is in favor of SOPA. He calls pirates, "white looters in pajamas." How can you say that and support Ron Paul and call his detractors brain dead? Bill is the zombie.

I own over 100 blu-rays. I'm a writer and could care less who pirates my works. People who pirate movies, games or music tend to buy more than those who don't too. So how is the industry losing money, when the ones the industry attacks are also their biggest customers?

Anti-piracy measures like hdcp and non-skipable piracy logos only hurt their legit customers. I own high quality video and audio gear. I buy my movies because the originals are the best quality.

Deprave probably knows what a RGB-HV BNC cable is. Because of hdcp, I'm forced to use HDMI, and use a several hundred dollar HDCP stripper and transcoder. What the industry and Bill fails to understand is it's China who is the biggest pirate. Its pirates don't even use the "analog hole" to pirate movies. It cracks the code itself using a computer. All the industry does is piss off your average consumer. Who can't even figure out a blu-ray player using: 1080i, 1080p60/24, or 720p. What's a hd audio codec like dts-hd 7.1. Source direct. Audio mixing settings. Deep Color vs x.v color. Rec 709 vs Rec 601. Levels PC/expanded/Full or Video/normal. Gamma 2.2 or 2.5. What is all that shit? Unless you know what all that does, you aren't making the best use of your fancy new blu-ray player. Is it no surprise people would rather be "white looters in pajamas" instead?
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
Who would applaud Caesar?
Me. He took apart a brutal oligarchy that was strangling the people to the point they were starving to death and fed the people, cleaned up the city, and created jobs for them.

Only a liberal can applaud a man who killed and enslaved millions,
That never happened. But whatever.

He fought military campaigns against Gaul who were a threat to Rome's survival. And yes, people die in wars. It was common practice for soldiers to enslave people in the cities they conquered. It was actually the soldiers who took and sold the slaves, not the generals. That's how Rome had operated since it's foundation. That's also how pretty much every other country/tribe operated at the time. It was standard practice in a different time. Romulus (founder of Rome) did the same 800 years before.

And when it came to the wars he fought VS various Roman factions, he started NONE of those wars in my opinion. During the triumvirate when Caesar was consul (sort of like a president), he started with his populist public works programs and his farm reform laws. The senate HATED him for that. They were already plotting to arrest and execute him (for crimes every last one of them also committed) while he was still in office. After his consul and then proconsul term in Gaul (france) were up, the senate demanded he come back to Rome so he could be tried and executed. When he refused, that's when the battles against the Roman armies started to happen. I'd argue telling the army to disband and the leaders to face trial where they would likely be executed is "starting it". But it's really semantics at that point.

primarily on the basis of supporting their progressive agenda.
Which was necessary. People were starving to death in the streets while people like Marcus Crassus were worth what is estimated to be the equivalent of several hundred billion dollars. A small group of people owned everything and the majority of people were reduced to being beggars. Free market economics at it's finest.

Those who forget the past:
When remembering the past it's important to try and remember what actually happened, and not just story book versions of it.

We must remember that what followed Caesar was nothing at all to be positive about.
That is simply false.

Are condemned to repeat it:
And it seems you've forgotten why people like the Gracchi brothers, Marius, Sulla, then the Caesars became necessary and supported by the people. It was due to the massive inequalities that came with free market economics. No one supports autocratic rule when they are being represented in government and have economic opportunity. Romans had neither representation in government nor economic opportunity. They had the ultra-wealthy owning everything and making all the rules. Caesar was incredibly popular with the people. When the senate murdered him, they didn't cheer "the liberators". They rioted and then tried to hunt them down. They had to flee the city before the people killed them. Then those same people demanded that Caesar's adopted son take Caesar's place.

These people weren't demanding to put the senate back in power. They weren't even demanding democracy anymore. They were demanding grain and jobs and knew they were never going to get those things from the senate.

Our nation is following in a modern version of the footsteps of Rome (This is not a left-right thing, they are both involved). If I would put our current state anywhere on the Roman timeline, I would put us not long before Sulla.
You are correct. I'd put us somewhere before the Gracchi brothers, as OWS and the tea party are exactly what was happening in the streets when Tiberius co-oped the movement. That's where the government started to collapse. And it all happened due to economic inequality.

I promise you that the cure to economic inequality isn't more economic inequality which comes with free markets.
 

deprave

New Member
Ahhh. My bad. That makes sense. While Shakespeare was based on history, it was fiction. Caesar never said "eh tu Brute?" or anything like that. Caesar was only able to do what he did because he had full support of the people. While the Roman people did love their games, Caesar's popularity was largely due to his economic policies and infrastructure projects. He reduced the amount of slaves the senatorial/patrician classes were able to have as laborers on farms. He gave away much of the farm land from the provinces he conquered to the poor. Started free grain programs. Took teachers and doctors from around the provinces and paid them to live in Rome to take care of the lower classes. He built aqueducts, baths, etc. He was probably the best thing that ever happened to the common Roman person up to that point. He completely turned around the Roman economy and made it work for the people rather than just the senate. Before Caesar the attitude in the Roman government was that Rome existed for the benefit of the Senate and everyone else was just the help.



He was a pagan, he definitely killed people, he was the most successful generals of all time, you can't be a successful general without killing people. But what he did not do was murder people outside of war. That's actually why he ended up murdered. Caesar was famous for his clemency. He would forgive all his enemies, even the ones who had raised armies against him, and brought them all back to rejoin the senate. So they killed him for it.

It was Caesar Augustus and Mark Anthony who were the real bloody ones, not Julius Caesar. The only blood he shed was in battle.

As for being a pagan, everyone in the Mediterranean from Egypt to Rome were all Pagans with the exception of the Jews. The Greeks, Syrians, Armenians, etc. All pagans. It was the norm in the world. There was nothing evil or wrong with being a pagan. All that means was they were polytheists.



Actually that last part was not true. The people of Rome were not taxed until hundreds of years after the republic fell. They taxed their conquered lands, but Romans themselves did not pay taxes until I believe Septimius Severus was emperor (could be wrong about that, but it was definitely long after they were an empire). The government ran primarily on money/stuff they pillaged from other countries during the republic. Until Marius, I don't believe they actually even taxed the provinces, just asked for soldiers instead.
Well your missing the point but I was kind of missing your poitn at the same time, still I think my error is a bit more minuscule. The Point I was making is that:

You are wrong about the thing you suspect you were wrong about. They payed taxes very shortly after casear, it was still caesers rome, caeser is the one who created this. It was the subsidies that caused farmers to grow less yield so that they would have to pay less. Your right that it was caeser's rome that made this the great deception of the Roman state. As I said, Bread and Circus, Give them bread and circus and they will not revolt, the following ceasars followed this.
 

deprave

New Member

  • As for being a pagan, everyone in the Mediterranean from Egypt to Rome were all Pagans with the exception of the Jews. The Greeks, Syrians, Armenians, etc. All pagans. It was the norm in the world. There was nothing evil or wrong with being a pagan. All that means was they were polytheists.






If you are a christian there is a lot wrong with pagans who enslave and murder (YES MURDER) people....even bar the murder...and bar polythesim, many pagan traditions practice magick and idolotry which many christians are against (among other things)...The Romans also murdered and persecuted christians. Further, I am not so sure about casear in pariticuliar, but they are guilty of many sins in the christian view; gluttony, lust, and so on was seen as acceptable behavior. I am agnostic so I am no entirely confident in saying all of this but I know this is what christians believe generally speaking, I haven't actually really even read the bible much at all, let alone studied it. I could actually know more about pagans.


[video=youtube;4YVt56bFOs8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVt56bFOs8[/video]
 

Dan Kone

Well-Known Member
They payed taxes immedietly after casear, it was still caesers rome, caeser is the one who created this. It was the subsidies that caused farmers to grow less food.
Not really. I get what you're saying though. It is true that the Roman government didn't ever actually collect taxes themselves until the Diocletian reforms. Rather than that they'd have people bid to collect taxes, and the bid would be the tax money the government collected. Then the tax collectors would go out collecting taxes, keeping as profit any amounts they could collect higher than that bid. But Roman citizens themselves at that time were not subjected to taxes. So when a Roman senator had a massive slave run farm, he didn't pay any taxes on that at all. No property nor income taxes. Taxes were for the people in the territories they conquered, but they did not tax Roman citizens like that.

And no, they did not subsidize farms. Rome itself was very much a free market economy. You could buy/sell pretty much anything (even your children) and the government took no interest. Rome itself suffered from constant food shortages, and the food they did have was extremely expensive because Roman senatorial farmers (they owned pretty much all Italian farm land at that point which was worked by slaves) found it more profitable to grow olives and grapes, then export those goods to Greece, rather than farm grain for the masses.

Their free market economy ended up benefiting the senators very much, and left everyone else starving. This is the reason Caesar went to Egypt and installed Cleopatra on the throne. Egypt was the only place around that grew enough food to feed Rome.

You've gotten some inaccurate information.
 
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