Bernie Sanders 2020
- Thread starter Padawanbater2
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Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I've consistently said I like and appreciate the elected leaders who call themselves Democratic Socialists. I think AOC is an outstanding leader and Ilhan Omar is a warrior whom I respect for her passion and integrity while perhaps wishing she hadn't said a few things in the way she did. Bernie, for very specific reasons that I'd be glad to share all over again with you, I don't care for. But then again, he's an independent and not a Democrat except for a few months every four years when he needs attention.
Regarding elected Democratic party members who call themselves Democratic Socialists, they do in fact work with other members of the Democratic party caucus. They have to, just as other Democrats have to work with them. Its a coalition, not a monolith.
I don't know where you get these silly ideas but you should examine yourself and your sources more carefully. You seem vulnerable to propaganda.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie used it in his tweet as an appeal for pity.
It was a trite debate tactic, used to influence people and you fell for it. The fault lies in you, not Bernie or me.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I expect you to refer to every elected democratic socialist/social democrat as "Democrat" from here on out, just to avoid confusion
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why do you think Bennett said "anybody but Sanders" in the Politico article I quoted?
Why do you think Bennett would support anyone but Sanders for president?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Bernie joins the Democratic Party so he can lose in the primary every four years and appeal for pity.
So you think twelve congressmen can just get it done all by themselves.
You are wrong but entitled to think that "none of them work with Corporate Democrats". I don't have to agree with you. Now then, you say AOC doesn't work with "corporate Democrats". She certainly has been busy at work for her districe, what with her co-sponsoring 57 bills since January: https://www.congress.gov/member/alexandria-ocasio-cortez/O000172 . I don't know which authors of those bills you'd call Democratic Socialists but I'm pretty sure moderates or "corporate Democrats" wrote some of those bills. Would you agree that there are not 93 Democratic Socialists serving in Congress today? Why the number -- 93? That's how many Democrats in Congress cosponsored AOC's Green New Deal bill. By the way, would you call Peter DeFazio (my rep) a corporate Democrat? He signed on as a cosponsor too.
So, there we have it. Recorded in the Congressional Record. It says, you are wrong about how Democratic Socialists serving in today's Congress do not work with other Democrats. But you may hold on to your false beliefs. I know that you won't let go.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
To avoid confusion, who do you call Progressive left or Democratic Socialist or member of your Cult of Sanders? There can't be more than a handful. To avoid confusion name them.
For example, is Ocasio-Cortez one of them? Ilhan Omar? What about Manion? What about Richard Ojeda? He lost but I know you really liked him. Would you have called him Progressive left or whatever you like to style yourself as today?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
It was clear from context of his message that Bernie Sanders was appealing for pity. It worked on you, so mission accomplished. Bernie sucks.
What Bennett may have said or what context he said it in is not important to me. I didn't read the article and probably won't.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
"None of them work with corporate Democrats to "get work done for their districts". They don't compromise on their values or barter with their beliefs because they're actually principled.
In other words, they don't work with corporate Democrats just like they don't work with corporate Republicans. They don't compromise on their values or barter with their beliefs because they're actually principled. There is no policy or issue you can dig up where a Justice Democrat has compromised values or political beliefs.
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about Bernie Sanders. I'm asking you about about Matt Bennett, cofounder of Third Way, who the article in Politico quoted
Why do you think Matt Bennett supports anybody but Sanders in the 2020 Democratic primary for president?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
I never read the Politico article. It was irrelevant to me.
I talked about Bernie Sanders who you quoted and posted his tweet. Within the context of his message, that was an appeal for pity.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Democratic Socialists like AOC and Omar have cosponsored plenty of bills with moderate Democrats as authors. Plenty of moderate Democrats cosponsored AOC's Green New Deal legislation. It's called working together and support when there is a mutual agreement and objective. Democrats work together to for their mutual benefit. It's also called cooperation. I never said anybody compromised their values. Where do these imagined statements that you say I made come from and why do you keep making that shit up?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
For the sake of clarity, @Padawanbater2 , name a few "Justice Democrats" or whatever term you like to help me understand who you are talking about.
Also, name a few, let's say, 6, "corporate" Democrats.
Thanks.
Edit: would you say that Nancy Pelosi is among the list of "corporate" Democrats? What about Schumer and Feinsten?
Also, name a few, let's say, 6, "corporate" Democrats.
Thanks.
Edit: would you say that Nancy Pelosi is among the list of "corporate" Democrats? What about Schumer and Feinsten?
Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
Why would a cofounder of Third Way publicly state support anyone but Bernie? You know what Third Way is, right?
I said no JD ever compromised their values to work with centrist corporate Democrats. You said xyz JDs worked with centrist Dem xyz. I reiterated, they may have worked with them, but they didn't do it at the expense of their values
Where do you disagree?
Raúl Grijalva
Ro Khanna
Ayanna Pressley
Rashida Tlaib
Ilhan Omar
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Pramila Jayapal
James Clyburn
Terri Sewell
Ron Kind
Richard Neal
Kurt Schrader
Frank Pallone Jr.
Steny Hoyer
Scott Peters
Nancy Pelosi is near the top of the list of corporate Democrats, along with both Schumer and Feinstein
UncleBuck
Well-Known Member
Go away curtis
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Oh, so now you say that they have worked with others but not compromised their values. You are agreeing with me. That's a good thing.
So you now call the Progressive Left , "Justice Democrats". That is the name of Bernie's ineffective movement. But that's OK.
By the way, Pelosi, Schumer and Feinstein are working with Justice Democrats too. The left is an important and growing wing of the Democratic Party. Before you get into a snit again, let me just say that they aren't compromising anybody's values by doing so, not even their own.
In your list of what you call "corporate Democrats", Kurt Schrader is somebody that I'm familiar with. He is pretty much a centrist and waffles back and forth in his support for progressive issues. He represents a district that pretty much is the same. He works with other Democrats to represent them. His district elected him and likes him. The process by which he came to Congress is called Democracy.
I think your problem is with Democracy. Your, as you call them "Justice Democrats", are only about 10% of this country's vote but you expect to be able to rule. Not going to happen no matter how many words you make up to characterize yourselves and the people you think are your opposition.
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Padawanbater2
Well-Known Member
I'm agreeing with my initial statement. I said they never worked with anyone that compromised their values. That's what I said, first. Then you listed a couple of issues where Justice Democrats have worked with corporate Democrats, and I reminded you they worked with them, and they didn't compromise their values, like the "pragmatic" Democrats you support do for the sake of bipartisanship. It's you who agrees with me.
Lol.. Pelosi, Schumer, and Feinstein are working with them, must be really ineffective...
Each of them are forced to "work with them", in the capacity they do, which isn't much, and in most cases, they publicly oppose Justice Democrats and the ideas they propose like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal.
Top Nancy Pelosi aide privately tells insurance executives not to worry about Democrats pushing "Medicare for All"
Chuck Schumer’s ready to push on climate, just not for a Green New Deal
Dianne Feinstein Lectures Children Who Want Green New Deal, Portraying It as Untenable
Shouldn't the Democratic party already be left?
You think that's what Democracy is? Kurt Schrader, along with the other corporate Democrats I listed, are a result of a corrupt political system that allows wealthy individuals to buy politicians and thereby control political policy. It's in fact, subverting democracy. In this system you support, 95% of the time, whoever spends more money wins. The average Americans vote virtually doesn't matter when it comes to political policy.
This is corporate kleptocracy coupled with corporate oligarchy. Not democracy in any real sense of the word.
Money Wins Presidency and 9 of 10 Congressional Races in Priciest U.S. Election Ever
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
I don't have to 'think' they're the opposition. They prove they are. They play dirty and whenever progressives fight back, they cry foul. We've already been through it, neoliberals have been exposed, and they will lose the next election, either to an actual progressive or to Donald Trump.
They lost with Harris when she failed to gain in popularity, Beto failed when he couldn't fill a high school gymnasium, Buttiguig had a little bit of a bump for a small amount of time but has since dropped off. Last ditch hail mary effort was on Biden, and he's tanked 11 points since he announced. Now the compromise is finally down to Warren, because at least she's not as bad as Sanders when it comes to making rich people pay their fair share in taxes.
Nowhere left to go
If Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, guaranteed Howard Schultz reenters the race as Independent and splits the Democratic vote and Trump wins again anyway
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abandonconflict
Well-Known Member
So you're saying that Sanders should run as an independent...
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Each district elects their own representation. As shown by the people they vote for, most people in this country are not far left. The Democrtic Party platform offers much for those districts that are not left leaning. Without winning seats in those districts, Republicans would continue to dominate all three legislative and executive branches of power while gradually taking control of the courts.
Is that what you prefer?
Kurt Schrader runs on Democratic Party values, not all but he's aligned with the people he represents and wins as a Democrat in a somewhat conservative district. He won 90% of the Democratic party's vote in the primary. You can make up whatever story you like but that's a whopping large proportion of the Democratic party in that district.
He went on to beat the Republican, 55% for Schrader and 42% to Callahan. He's popular there.
Another aspect of Democracy is you can't win office if you don't run. None of your "Justice Democrats" even ran for his office in 2018, so I don't know how you can complain.
But you do.
Sanders is blowing it. He didn't win in 2016 because he failed to convince most of the people to vote for him. Your theories of a stolen election are based on racism and misogyny. He's running basically the same campaign in 2020 all the way down to alienating black voters. I expect the same result. Bernie loses. If he doesn't I'll vote for him in the fall.Money Wins Presidency and 9 of 10 Congressional Races in Priciest U.S. Election Ever
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
I don't have to 'think' they're the opposition. They prove they are. They play dirty and whenever progressives fight back, they cry foul. We've already been through it, neoliberals have been exposed, and they will lose the next election, either to an actual progressive or to Donald Trump.
They lost with Harris when she failed to gain in popularity, Beto failed when he couldn't fill a high school gymnasium, Buttiguig had a little bit of a bump for a small amount of time but has since dropped off. Last ditch hail mary effort was on Biden, and he's tanked 11 points since he announced. Now the compromise is finally down to Warren, because at least she's not as bad as Sanders when it comes to making rich people pay their fair share in taxes.
Nowhere left to go
If Sanders wins the Democratic nomination, guaranteed Howard Schultz reenters the race as Independent and splits the Democratic vote and Trump wins again anyway
I think Warren is pretty good. I think Bernie sucks. Biden sucks too. I'm going to listen to Booker and Harris throughout the summer. We'll let the chips fall where they may.
Regarding Schultz: It's up to each candidate to convince people to vote for them. If Sanders wins the Democratic party's nomination and Schultz comes in and splits the vote then Sanders wasn't good enough. You are saying so too. Because Bernie sucks. End of story.
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