Beginner question about topdressing and teas

getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
I'm glad to know my question wasn't super basic. I just couldn't believe how heavy those pots still felt this morning. I gave them each 1 liter on Sunday and they feel like they each weigh about 5lbs today. I didn't pay attention to the weight before I watered them so I'm going to fill a pot up today to see what it weighs with no water so I have something to base the weight off of.
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if were being honest , thats the only true way to know for sure whats going on an how much they are taking in. Organics are tough. "anybody can grow in dirt" Yea , we see how that goes on rollitup. Hydro really is easy.....you just follow someones elses recipe and your 3/4 the way there already. I can give you every detail of what i do and why and yours will be different ....a lil better , or a lil worse but never the same.
 
DonBrennon

DonBrennon

Well-Known Member
I've never read or heard of milk being directly added to soil and I've read a lot of shit. I know that farmers around here are pretty clued up as to what works and what doesn't, and they're currently pouring a lot of milk down the drain because of the current C19 crisis and drop off in demand. This tells me something............

Milk is used in JADAM and KNF to make LAB(Lactic acid bacteria), which is a similar product to EM1(Effective micro-organisms), just with a slightly different profile of micro-organisms. LAB's/EM1 has all kinds of uses around a house, farm or garden and is well worth looking into if you are growing organically.
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
if were being honest , thats the only true way to know for sure whats going on an how much they are taking in. Organics are tough. "anybody can grow in dirt" Yea , we see how that goes on rollitup. Hydro really is easy.....you just follow someones elses recipe and your 3/4 the way there already. I can give you every detail of what i do and why and yours will be different ....a lil better , or a lil worse but never the same.
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DonBrennon said:
I've never read or heard of milk being directly added to soil and I've read a lot of shit. I know that farmers around here are pretty clued up as to what works and what doesn't, and they're currently pouring a lot of milk down the drain because of the current C19 crisis and drop off in demand. This tells me something............

Milk is used in JADAM and KNF to make LAB(Lactic acid bacteria), which is a similar product to EM1(Effective micro-organisms), just with a slightly different profile of micro-organisms. LAB's/EM1 has all kinds of uses around a house, farm or garden and is well worth looking into if you are growing organically.
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I agree fully that all things have to be taken into consideration as the variables in organic soils seem to be endless. I enjoy your aspect on growing as it seems to be in the same realm as what I have going on. Not sure if what I'm doing is the "correct way", but it makes sense to me. I just try and grab little bits here and there and work them into whatever I have going. I make enough mistakes on my own without trying to follow anything specific, but figure I will learn with my soils/environment as I go.

I did recently get two 1 gallon fermenting jars. I definitely need to look into the jadam and knf styles more so now, as I'm just kind of winging it now. I expanded some em1 in each, with each jar having a little something different. In the one I just used 3/4 cup em1 and 1/2 cup molasses, but in the other I cut the molasses to 1/4 cup and used 1/4cup kelp meal and 1/4 cup alfalfa meal as a food stock. Jars have been fermenting for a little over a week now. Opened them up and stirred them each a bit and both smell sweet and don't seem to have gone wrong. never expanded em1 before so it's all new to me. I plan on using a lot of it to kick-start some fresh compost piles, as my outdoor bins are pretty much ready to go. It's about that time to expand and get things set up more so for a perpetual flow out there. I'm getting close to harvesting some plants and was planning on fermenting all the leaves and stems with em1 before adding them to the worm bins.

Sorry if I de-railed the thread here, but thought there were some really good posts in this thread so far and hope it continues on.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
your using a LOT of em .......yuo dont need that much as its so easy to breed. Soon as you get your em1 , make 2 or 4 more gallons of it right away so it will last forever. i still have some of my 8 oz bottle i bought in 2009 or 10. 1 part em, 1 part molasses 20 parts water. your going to want to burp the bottle everry day or more. When it stops burping then you have a whole new bottle of em, just as strong as the one you bought.
What are you fermenting ? The best thing you can do is make some bakashi. (do not try peat moss as an inert medium, it does not work with em) I have used oatmeal. I think wheat bran is one of the better inert things to make bokashi with.
When making a scrap bin for the em, just throw your scraps in an sprinkle just a little bokashi on top then cover with something close to air tight.....then repeat till full. In 2 weeks when the bin is full you dump it in whatever you want. Em is strong enough to turn bones into soil within a couple weeks/month.

Just winging it is how organics work. We dont have a clue what the soils npk is. Our job is to make our soil rich an to have plenty of npk. It dont matter the ratios. It just matters there is enough oranic matter in our mix to feed the girls. They want plenty of food , they dont care if the N is higher in veg and the P is higher in bloom as long as there is plenty of both then everything is happy.
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
your using a LOT of em .......yuo dont need that much as its so easy to breed. Soon as you get your em1 , make 2 or 4 more gallons of it right away so it will last forever. i still have some of my 8 oz bottle i bought in 2009 or 10. 1 part em, 1 part molasses 20 parts water. your going to want to burp the bottle everry day or more. When it stops burping then you have a whole new bottle of em, just as strong as the one you bought.
What are you fermenting ? The best thing you can do is make some bakashi. (do not try peat moss as an inert medium, it does not work with em) I have used oatmeal. I think wheat bran is one of the better inert things to make bokashi with.
When making a scrap bin for the em, just throw your scraps in an sprinkle just a little bokashi on top then cover with something close to air tight.....then repeat till full. In 2 weeks when the bin is full you dump it in whatever you want. Em is strong enough to turn bones into soil within a couple weeks/month.

Just winging it is how organics work. We dont have a clue what the soils npk is. Our job is to make our soil rich an to have plenty of npk. It dont matter the ratios. It just matters there is enough oranic matter in our mix to feed the girls. They want plenty of food , they dont care if the N is higher in veg and the P is higher in bloom as long as there is plenty of both then everything is happy.
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that's exactly how I'm looking at it, a million different ways to go about things. I still had around 3/4 of a quart size bottle from a couple years ago so thought it was time to play around with it.

as for the jars I have now, the one with just em1/molasses I followed the basic activation recipe from the teragenix website. 3/4 of each to one gallon of water. I plan on using this "activated" batch to ferment my leaves and stems from this harvest in the near future. I know it isn't necessary and I could just add it all to the worm bins as is, but figured it would speed up the process and further diversify the microbes in everything. also, the aftermath of fermenting the leaves/stems would seem to make a nice light feed for the plants at maybe a tablespoon per gallon of the strained liquid or something along those lines. the remaining activated em1 I will use to try and make some bokashi bran out of and also water into some outdoor areas that could use a jolt.

the second, lighter color jar, is just a different recipe I tried with the em1. I used molasses/kelp/alfalfa (1/4 cup each). In my head, the end result of this is basically a fermented kelp/alfalfa tea that I want to try and use on some plants. again at a low dosage and see what happens. I will strain it and feed whatever remains to the worms as well.

I really don't have the space or need for a lot of this and know similar results could be obtained by simplifying it, but I enjoy reading and trying different things. the fermenting stuff just seems right up my alley too. also I have a large outdoor garden bed I have access to that I'd like to bring some life back into. so between that and some buddies who recently got into growing, I have a few avenues to try this stuff out and see if/what benefits can be obtained from different things.
 

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getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
loco41 said:
that's exactly how I'm looking at it, a million different ways to go about things. I still had around 3/4 of a quart size bottle from a couple years ago so thought it was time to play around with it.

as for the jars I have now, the one with just em1/molasses I followed the basic activation recipe from the teragenix website. 3/4 of each to one gallon of water. I plan on using this "activated" batch to ferment my leaves and stems from this harvest in the near future. I know it isn't necessary and I could just add it all to the worm bins as is, but figured it would speed up the process and further diversify the microbes in everything. also, the aftermath of fermenting the leaves/stems would seem to make a nice light feed for the plants at maybe a tablespoon per gallon of the strained liquid or something along those lines. the remaining activated em1 I will use to try and make some bokashi bran out of and also water into some outdoor areas that could use a jolt.

the second, lighter color jar, is just a different recipe I tried with the em1. I used molasses/kelp/alfalfa (1/4 cup each). In my head, the end result of this is basically a fermented kelp/alfalfa tea that I want to try and use on some plants. again at a low dosage and see what happens. I will strain it and feed whatever remains to the worms as well.

I really don't have the space or need for a lot of this and know similar results could be obtained by simplifying it, but I enjoy reading and trying different things. the fermenting stuff just seems right up my alley too. also I have a large outdoor garden bed I have access to that I'd like to bring some life back into. so between that and some buddies who recently got into growing, I have a few avenues to try this stuff out and see if/what benefits can be obtained from different things.
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im very interested in the results of the fermented kelp/alfalfa. (worst case is the em dont get along with the kelp/alfalfa and it would stink real bad, best case is you have some almost instant plant food that is 100% organic. sweeeet
fermenting your stems is a very good idea as they take a lil too long to break down in the bin for my likings. Im pretty sure you could ferment meat and bones with EM for a week or two then add it to your worm bin with no issues. I bet the bones would be worm castings within 2 months.

now you got me wondering if i could ferment my dry amendments with em to turn them into "chemical plant food" ? hmmm
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
im very interested in the results of the fermented kelp/alfalfa. (worst case is the em dont get along with the kelp/alfalfa and it would stink real bad, best case is you have some almost instant plant food that is 100% organic. sweeeet
fermenting your stems is a very good idea as they take a lil too long to break down in the bin for my likings. Im pretty sure you could ferment meat and bones with EM for a week or two then add it to your worm bin with no issues. I bet the bones would be worm castings within 2 months.

now you got me wondering if i could ferment my dry amendments with em to turn them into "chemical plant food" ? hmmm
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Awesome man, I'll keep you informed. That was my exact thought process behind it all, we'll see if it all works. The jar smells sweet just like the original em1 concentrate that I have, so assume things all finished up ok. I haven't strained it yet but stir it up once a week or so and it releases some gas via the air lock every so often. Again, I assume this is a good sign that the microbes survived it and are still active in the ferment. I just planted some new stuff in my two small tents, so I'll test it out eventually, but everything is just breaking soil now. Planted three mj regs in the one tent and some kale/spinach in my real small tent.

As far as the stems go, had bad luck with that. I didn't try fermenting them until at least 10 days after chopping plants. They also weren't rinsed before putting them in the jar with water/em. No molasses either, so no real instant sugar source to get them fired up, and after about 5 days it was stinking real bad and looked funky so i just threw it out. I will definitely be a little more thorough if I try it again, but I think the idea is interesting using the fermented stems being used for a mulch. I probably just have too much time on my hands and smoke too much, but it keeps me happy..
 
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4ftRoots

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
Just bought a 50 lb bag of wheat bran for $23 and now the em supplier is out of stock, argh! Think I'm going to try blending the bran and alfalfa for top dressing and see how that does.
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If all your interested in is lactic acid bacteria you can make it with rice wash and milk. I'll try to find a link.

www.royalqueenseeds.com

Learn Why to Use LAB When Growing Weed - RQS Blog

There are many ways to improve the growth of cannabis plants, and today we're looking at lactic acid bacteria (LAB). Learn more with Royal Queen Seeds!
www.royalqueenseeds.com www.royalqueenseeds.com
 
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getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
Just bought a 50 lb bag of wheat bran for $23 and now the em supplier is out of stock, argh! Think I'm going to try blending the bran and alfalfa for top dressing and see how that does.
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where can i get some wheat bran online ? i cant find it in the area although i aint looked in 10 years. i want to make some bran and i dont wanna use anything but wheat bran. Thanks guys!
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
where can i get some wheat bran online ? i cant find it in the area although i aint looked in 10 years. i want to make some bran and i dont wanna use anything but wheat bran. Thanks guys!
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Go to a feed store for cattle if that's in your area.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
Bignutes said:
Go to a feed store for cattle if that's in your area.
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Im in a big city , so im sure we have some but i sure wasnt able to find it 10 years ago. I stumbled into there askin for wheat bran and they looked at me like what the fuck is wrong with this guy? Is that a fuckin hippo on the back of his truck? "NO sir , we dont sell that" , "i didnt even say what i needed yet?" ....."WE DONT HAVE IT!!"
i eggagerate a c hair or two but it went something like that.
im guessing we dont have cattle round here? I can prolly order it from tractor supply , they are cool as fuck but the farm stores just aint tryna work with me.
 
getogrow

getogrow

Well-Known Member
i remember trying to explain to them i needed an inert medium for the EM to inoculate and i think they thought i was trying to make meth.
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
getogrow said:
i remember trying to explain to them i needed an inert medium for the EM to inoculate and i think they thought i was trying to make meth.
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I hear ya, you were probably put on the watchlist after that, lol. I got mine in a farming community that's 40 min out of a major city, got both alfalfa and wheat bran.
 
TreeFarmerCharlie

TreeFarmerCharlie

Well-Known Member
Ok so I recently realized that I really need a mulch layer and finally got out of the house today and picked up some alfalfa hay to use.

Today I top dressed the soil, spread some white clover seeds, and then mulched it with the hay before watering. Should I just leave them be and let the bacteria munch on what’s in there for now? Or should I brew up a small amount of compost tea to kickstart the process?

While I was in there I noticed some rust spots on a few of the older fan leaves. Should I give aight dose of cal mag with my next watering? Or is there any reason not to use that with an organic grow?
 
Tangerine_

Tangerine_

Well-Known Member
TreeFarmerCharlie said:
Ok so I recently realized that I really need a mulch layer and finally got out of the house today and picked up some alfalfa hay to use.

Today I top dressed the soil, spread some white clover seeds, and then mulched it with the hay before watering. Should I just leave them be and let the bacteria munch on what’s in there for now? Or should I brew up a small amount of compost tea to kickstart the process?

While I was in there I noticed some rust spots on a few of the older fan leaves. Should I give aight dose of cal mag with my next watering? Or is there any reason not to use that with an organic grow?
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Calmag wont hurt but I wouldn't do it very often. They don't normally play well together.

NFTGs has a few bottles with a couple different forms of available Cal that I've found work great in amended soil and then just use some Epsom for a quick dose of Mg. Just some stuff I like to have on hand but if you already have a bottle of Calmag, that's fine too.

I like NFTG because it provides a good food source for the herd.

Plants are lookin great
 
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