Beginner question about topdressing and teas

getogrow said:

Your going to try an put in enough powder to last a few weeks. mix it with all the soil. there is really no benefit to doing it one way or another. i would use it as teas an top dressing but not on a schedule. Everytime you feed with powder , it will continue to feed for a watering or 4.
There is no certain amount of water. You'll want to do whatever you normally do when you first transplant them , then after a couple waterings to get the roots even in the pot, you'll want to just get the top nice and wet but not so much that it runs through. After enoughj waterings your soil will feel like a sponge. Thats perfection.

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I agree.
I amend my soils, cook them and add very little besides teas/molasses along the way.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

Thanks again for all the advice guys! I picked up an extra bag of each of the soils I'm using and got all my soil and mixed up, along with 1 Tbsp of my fertilizer per gallon, and covered it up until I'm ready to transplant.

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What is the NPK of the fert your using? 1 tblspn per gal is pretty light. If you look up clackamasses recipe linked below he uses a lot more than your ratio on multiple fertilizers. I'm guessing you'd run out of gas pretty quick on your soil. He also uses teas and top dresses so your comparing apple's to apple's. Also what is the your desired plant size in terms of space or height? The size of your plant will dictate soil strength and pot size.

Bignutes said:

What is the NPK of the fert your using? 1 tblspn per gal is pretty light. If you look up clackamasses recipe linked below he uses a lot more than your ratio on multiple fertilizers. I'm guessing you'd run out of gas pretty quick on your soil. He also uses teas and top dresses so your comparing apple's to apple's. Also what is the your desired plant size in terms of space or height? The size of your plant will dictate soil strength and pot size.

Vegan Soil Amendments

There's a ton of reasons to consider Vegan amendments for your soil and fertilizer needs. For some, it's a life choice based on the food they put in their body, for others it may be a desire to not support the current meat industry and slaughterhouses. That's definitely something I can get...

www.kisorganics.com

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The NPK is 7-2-3 but the soil I'm using is also amended. I'm using a 50/50 mixture of the following:


Base Camp – Potting Soil
Base Camp contains: coco coir, sphagnum peat moss, perlite, pumice, aged forest humus, earthworm castings, bat guano, seabird guano, alfalfa, seaweed, fish meal, fish bone, crab meal, oyster shell, neem seed meal, soft rock phosphate, langbeinite, glacial rock dust, volcanic ash, yucca and mycorrhizae


Nectar for the Gods Blend #4
Nectar’s most popular blend. A general potting mix designed for indoor and outdoor use. Suitable for multiple feedings per week. Mixed in small batches. Contains no bark or fillers. Coir fiber is rinsed on-site with Oregon rainwater and buffered with limestone to reduce salts. After blending and bagging, soil sits unwrapped and covered for up to 30 days to activate, compost and then go dormant, to avoid HOT soil. Ingredients: Sphagnum peat moss, perlite, coir fiber, pumice, mycorrhizal fungi, yucca meal, kelp meal, bone meal, diatomaceous earth, clay, basalt, oyster shell (for pH adjustment), humus and lime (for pH adjustment).

Ok good, nice soils you got there.

Bignutes said:

What is the NPK of the fert your using? 1 tblspn per gal is pretty light. If you look up clackamasses recipe linked below he uses a lot more than your ratio on multiple fertilizers. I'm guessing you'd run out of gas pretty quick on your soil. He also uses teas and top dresses so your comparing apple's to apple's. Also what is the your desired plant size in terms of space or height? The size of your plant will dictate soil strength and pot size.

Vegan Soil Amendments

There's a ton of reasons to consider Vegan amendments for your soil and fertilizer needs. For some, it's a life choice based on the food they put in their body, for others it may be a desire to not support the current meat industry and slaughterhouses. That's definitely something I can get...

www.kisorganics.com

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Sorry, I forgot to answer your last question. I grow my plants out in a 48"x48"x80" tent so I try to keep them at around 48"- 60" tall and close to 4 sqft in diameter. I planned on doing this batch in 7 gallon pots.

Ok you should be good with top dress and teas with plants. Don't be surprised tho if you run into a hungry strain you'll probably want to step up to 10 gal.

Bignutes said:

Ok you should be good with top dress and teas with plants. Don't be surprised tho if you run into a hungry strain you'll probably want to step up to 10 gal.

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Should I just go with 10gal for these to be safe? I'm so used to growing with 5gal and only decided to go with 7 because the guy at the shop told me 5 would be small for an organic grow. I have enough soil for four 10 gallon pots, though, so I can order them up and still get them in time.

I just got finished with using 7 gal with organic grow for 2x2 scrogged plants, they ran out of gas and had to supplement pretty heavy for a month to get them to a point where they would finish. I could have increased the soil recipes strength but didnt want to burn plants as my soil was already hot to start with. You can do it with 7 gal, lots of guys do and no doubt you could dial it in, but i think they are far less forgiving than a 10 gal. My next grow is 10 gal.

Bignutes said:

I just got finished with using 7 gal with organic grow for 2x2 scrogged plants, they ran out of gas and had to supplement pretty heavy for a month to get them to a point where they would finish. I could have increased the soil recipes strength but didnt want to burn plants as my soil was already hot to start with. You can do it with 7 gal, lots of guys do and no doubt you could dial it in, but i think they are far less forgiving than a 10 gal. My next grow is 10 gal.

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I'll just go with 10 gal. I just ordered them and they should arrive on Monday.

i use a very basic 1tbsp of rainbow mix or happy frog mix to 1 gallon of used soil. he may have gotten that weak number from me. When i do use the tbsp a gallon of soil , i still feed pretty heavy overall. I have yet to make a recipe that lasted all cycle without added food. i been cheating heavy lately with all the premixed shit with fancy labels

Farmer, them soils look great ! im guessing the base camp contains more compost and organic matter and "soil"
When it comes to big pots with plenty of organic matter , i have little experience indoors. I do much better in smaller pots with smaller plants.

TreeFarmerCharlie said:

Thanks again for all the advice guys! I picked up an extra bag of each of the soils I'm using and got all my soil and mixed up, along with 1 Tbsp of my fertilizer per gallon, and covered it up until I'm ready to transplant.

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make sure its nice an moist ....also i would stir it real good at least once a week until use.

Polyuro said:

Ask @4ftRoots. I believe it’s the lactic acid bacteria in the milk that is beneficial to soils. Being a bacteria it’s best used in the bottom layer of the soil as it can be eaten by beneficial fungus(mykos, etc.). Check out Alan Adkisson and his probiotic method. Not sure how to break down milk by itself but em-1 is essentially that.

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Im positive your right about the LAB in milk. That is one of the good bacterias in it that i know of. You can add it to your compost pile in small amounts if ya want.

getogrow said:

i use a very basic 1tbsp of rainbow mix or happy frog mix to 1 gallon of used soil. he may have gotten that weak number from me. When i do use the tbsp a gallon of soil , i still feed pretty heavy overall. I have yet to make a recipe that lasted all cycle without added food. i been cheating heavy lately with all the premixed shit with fancy labels

Farmer, them soils look great ! im guessing the base camp contains more compost and organic matter and "soil"
When it comes to big pots with plenty of organic matter , i have little experience indoors. I do much better in smaller pots with smaller plants.

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Last run i did a water only mix with Down to Earth Biolive. 1/3 cup per gal of soil.
Dont think i will ever go back to bottles. Something to be said for KISS

terrible pics but i dug them up. this is root porn when using EM-1, mycorrizea and fresh ewc teas

getogrow said:

terrible pics but i dug them up. this is root porn when using EM-1, mycorrizea and fresh ewc teasView attachment 4521286View attachment 4521287View attachment 4521288View attachment 4521289

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Polyuro said:

Ask @4ftRoots. I believe it’s the lactic acid bacteria in the milk that is beneficial to soils. Being a bacteria it’s best used in the bottom layer of the soil as it can be eaten by beneficial fungus(mykos, etc.). Check out Alan Adkisson and his probiotic method. Not sure how to break down milk by itself but em-1 is essentially that.

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This is very interesting and I haven't heard of anything like this before to be honest. My understanding is that raw milk has a complex proteins and sugars that support bacteria and fungal life as well as enzymes that could possibly help to break down food sources within the soil. Really, the milk might be the best compared to a mixture of seed sprout teas and molasses. Maybe it is a better sugar and protein source than molasses? My guess is that the raw milk would be best used to kick start soil food web formation in dead soils. I bet it would help healthy soils but only minimally and it might give slightly better results than watering with diluted molasses.

A few things I wonder and might test in the future!

Could it be used as a food stock for compost teas?
Are the enzymes present in milk better than those found in SST's?
Does adding the milk to soils attract airborne bacteria and fungus, causing a more diverse soil food web?

Thanks for all the advice, guys! I don't know if it's the low dose of tea I gave them last week, or what, but these plants seem to be taking off really fast. I usually keep my plants in solo cups for 3-4 weeks but these were ready to be transplanted today (16 days since they sprouted). I usually go from solo cup, straight to their final pots, but I decided to add at least one more pot size, and transplanted them into 1.5 gallon pots today. I'm really excited for this batch of plants!

My indoor grows have layers and spikes made up of fresh ewc and compost combined with composted steer manure, rock phosphate, neem seed meal and GG power bloom.

I topdress my indoor girls at 2 and 4 weeks of flower with 3/4” fresh ewc. At 6 weeks I take 1 cup fresh ewc and add to 1 gallon water and use this to water. The girls go absolutely crazy with this.

I use teas for my summer grow. 2 cups fresh ewc, 1 cup alfalfa meal, 1/2 cup kelp meal and 2 tbsp bsm. Bubble 36 hours then apply a foliar. I do this a couple times. The girls love it!!

You have to find what works for you!!

This is a little off subject, but thought I would ask here, rather than start a new thread for what seems like a super basic question.

Does the amount of perlite in the 1.5gal post above look alright to you guys? The store owner I bought the soil from recommended not amending the soil with any perlite but, after giving each of those pots 1L of water the other day, the soil seemed to settle and pack down a little harder than I'm used to. @getogrow , you mentioned that I shouldn't have to water until run-off like I've been used to with my non-organic grows. Do you have any suggestion regarding how much I should start out with in these 1.5gal pots?

On those lil pots , do it like you normally would to make it easy. 2 cups of water should be alright for first watering.... Man im gonna be strait with you , your asking the hardest question possible. i been doing it for decades an still dont get the water right all the time. When i only do a few at a time , i like to check weight and treat each one different. My "no runoff" system works great that way but not so much when the room is stuffed.

getogrow said:

On those lil pots , do it like you normally would to make it easy. 2 cups of water should be alright for first watering.... Man im gonna be strait with you , your asking the hardest question possible. i been doing it for decades an still dont get the water right all the time. When i only do a few at a time , i like to check weight and treat each one different. My "no runoff" system works great that way but not so much when the room is stuffed.

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I'm glad to know my question wasn't super basic. I just couldn't believe how heavy those pots still felt this morning. I gave them each 1 liter on Sunday and they feel like they each weigh about 5lbs today. I didn't pay attention to the weight before I watered them so I'm going to fill a pot up today to see what it weighs with no water so I have something to base the weight off of.