Bagseed baby with a white widow infant, stem scare?

well the title states the plants, but as for the stem scare, the older bagseed has had some red stems and the nodes are growing really close together- which i guess i'm not exactly too worried about. the first set of true leaves has turned crispy on the end, but here's the pics theyll explain better than my stoned self
the white widow also has a reddish stem but i think thats common in seedlings to some extent, right?
both were started in shotglasses, about 10 days apart, and i added some compost waste to supplement for nutrients that may have been missing in the seed starter medium (im tryin to go completely organic). since then, the symptoms have slowed down but dont exactly seem to have stopped altogether, although it hasnt been that long
the bagseed is just over 2 weeks old, and the white widow is 6 days

anyone have any advice as to what i should do to get them on track, im hoping to use the bagseed as a crash course for my ww, and the red stems are freakin me out, i havent been able to find many threads that cover sprouting
thanks,

I wouldn't worry about the red stems. As for the crispy leaves, maybe it's time for some food. Seeing as their 2 weeks old, it may be time. Start with a quarter dose or less.

CaNNaBiZ CaNucK said:

I wouldn't worry about the red stems. As for the crispy leaves, maybe it's time for some food. Seeing as their 2 weeks old, it may be time. Start with a quarter dose or less.

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Sorry man, but that's bad advice. Their age is irrelevant, it's the size that matters when it comes to fert requirements, unless the're in some kind of growing medium that has no nutes.


What kind of soil are you using? Looks like it could be burning them.

jawbrodt said:

Sorry man, but that's bad advice. Their age is irrelevant, it's the size that matters when it comes to fert requirements, unless the're in some kind of growing medium that has no nutes.


What kind of soil are you using? Looks like it could be burning them.

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I agree that age isn't the end all, of course. I'm factoring in that this plant is also in its third leaf set. It's worked very well for me to start feeding once the third or forth are showing.

CaNNaBiZ CaNucK said:

I agree that age isn't the end all, of course. I'm factoring in that this plant is also in its third leaf set. It's worked very well for me to start feeding once the third or forth are showing.

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Mostly, it depends on the soil. I use FF OF, and my plants are dark green throughout the first 14-16" growth,(3 weeks, with no stretching) where I transplant from 1 gallon pots to 3 gallon pots, and then they don't need fed at all until the middle/end of the 'bloom stretch'. I'm pretty sure if i add any fert when there as small as those in the pics, that nute-burn won't be far away. This isn't an arguement, I'm just stating what's possible with that particular soil.

No argument here, bro

Jawbrodt is correct. Those seedlings are over fed and over watered.

On an aside, its not just leaf sets as Jawbrodt correctly stated. If you have seeded your plants in slow release fertilized soil then its going to be a struggle from the get go. The more you water the more ferts will be released. The best method is to grow the seedlings in specially prepared seedling mix from your garden centers if you havent done much of that before. Once you are comfortable with it you could try seeding them in soiless mix that is not preloaded with nutrient, then add your own.

If you use premixed soil, ask the people at the grow shop or garden center how long plants will veg in that particular soil without you needing to add fertilizer. Most premixed soils can go 4-6 weeks without needing to add any.

The second factor is leaf sets as much discussed on grow forums.

But the third factor and one that is pretty much ignored is the roots. Root development is just as important when determining the strength of nutrient or need for nutrient (premixed soil aside) but, it is difficult to determine just how developed roots can be so there are a couple of ways of figuring out how well developed they are. The most obvious is to check roots at the bottom of your pots to see how many are protruding. Another method is the easiest and involves no stress whatsoever on your plants and that is to check the bottom two leaf sets.

When those two leaf set fan leaves are either at the pots edge or even extending past the edge, then that is a good sign that roots have filled out the pot and the plant is mature enough to step up the feeding regiment. They are not always an indicator of a need for more nutrient, but that is an accurate indicator that your plants roots have properly developed and therefore at anytime after that you can decide to step things up to the next level.

Hope that helps.

+Rep, for good info, and for giving me a brainstorm.LOL

When those two leaf set fan leaves are either at the pots edge or even extending past the edge, then that is a good sign that roots have filled out the pot and the plant is mature enough to step up the feeding regiment. They are not always an indicator of a need for more nutrient, but that is an accurate indicator that your plants roots have properly developed and therefore at anytime after that you can decide to step things up to the next level.

Hope that helps.

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Ya know, that makes me think. Ya know how alot of these new guys have 4 week old plants(for example), that are tiny, yet don't look too bad, with color and such? They ask why they are so small, and nobody really ever seem to have an answer. They say to add nutes, check PH, bla, bla, bla.....(I've done it myself, many times.lol)

Well, I think i just figured out what the problem likely is, alot of those times, and never hear it mentioned. When you mentioned leaf width, in relation to the size of the root mass, I realized something....most of those new guys are terrified to give their plants enough water. I don't know how many times I've seen pots watered with the water concentrated in the center of the pot, with dry soil all around the outer edges. They can't figure out why they're growing so slow, and the first question somebody asks is "Are you sure you aren't overwatering?". So, the grower is even more fearful of watering, and never gives them, a nice complete watering, like they need. Anyway.....what I'm saying is that alot of the problem with those little plants, is that the outer soil never get wet, and the roots never develop fully. The roots never get a chance to fill the pot, because the soil remains dry 24/7 around the edges. And hence, they get stunted growth, and/or tall skinny plants that don't wants to branch out.

Water 'em well people, just make sure to let 'em dry out in between.

Excellent info Jonus +rep! Thanks for the education

jawbrodt said:

Ya know, that makes me think. Ya know how alot of these new guys have 4 week old plants(for example), that are tiny, yet don't look too bad, with color and such? They ask why they are so small, and nobody really ever seem to have an answer. They say to add nutes, check PH, bla, bla, bla.....(I've done it myself, many times.lol)

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Sometimes a lot of new growers do not realise when growing from seed that it takes a hell of a lot longer to prepare the plant for budding. The reason is that unlike clones/cuttings, seedlings are like infants and need time to grow up, whereas clones are cuttings from adult plants. My blueberry cuttings were originally seeded 9 years ago and I have been taking cuttings of cuttings of cuttings since then. This is why I can confidently veg for 3 weeks and switch to budding knowing the clones have the ability to handle this very adult activity of producing buds.

Seedlings on the otherhand are still children at 4 weeks and its often not until 6 weeks or later that they are ready to produce bud, sometimes, up to 3 months from seeding...this is why growing from clones is by far the fastest method of producing bud.

I seeded a strawberry cough last September and it took 10 weeks of vegging before that plant told me it was ready to bud...as in its leaf sets, width, root development and all that. I vegged it for 4 weeks in seedling mix, then transplanted it into a 30 litre pot of premix soil and just watered it for the next 4 weeks before giving her the first manual feed of fertilizer.

Thorough watering is the best method of watering, and especially in soil type mediums they need to be allowed to completely dry, and that is not dry according to a moisture meter, thats dry as in the pot feels like its full of balsa wood...dry. Then thorough watering again.

This achieves two things, thorough watering as you correctly stated jawbrodt, allows the roots to correctly fill out the grow medium and helps to flush out salts with every watering.

Also allowing the soil to dry right out between watering keeps the plants in a simulated mode of drought.

This simulation of drought affects the hormones and metabolism of your plants more than any fertilizer or additive can ever do. Firstly they will gobble up everything you feed them without question, secondly the roots get to live in an oxygen rich environment rather than drowning in water, thirdly micro organisms can function properly in the drier conditions to affix nutrients and micros to the roots of your plants.

Plants grown in this drought simulation are unlikely to get deficiencies and you will find the older they get the faster their metabolism is due to this method of growing. It is a common method used by many commercial food crop growers and is the most economical way of producing fruit.

It is also a low stress on plants which react to this low stress by building stronger structures that can uptake nutrients more aggressively when it is available in the root medium.

Most of the problems people report about their plants are related to either drowned roots, over fertilized roots or under developed roots, or worst of all, combinations of all of those.

Jonus said:

I seeded a strawberry cough last September and it took 10 weeks of vegging before that plant told me it was ready to bud

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It took 10 weeks, eh? I have 1 SC sprouted and waiting on another to break the surface of its RW cube. Did you flower it or use as a mother? If you flowered, how long did it take for her to finish? I can't wait to get to work on these plants! Excited!

I took some clones and flowered it. Took 9 week to finish.

jawbrodt said:

Mostly, it depends on the soil. I use FF OF, and my plants are dark green throughout the first 14-16" growth,(3 weeks, with no stretching) where I transplant from 1 gallon pots to 3 gallon pots, and then they don't need fed at all until the middle/end of the 'bloom stretch'. I'm pretty sure if i add any fert when there as small as those in the pics, that nute-burn won't be far away. This isn't an arguement, I'm just stating what's possible with that particular soil.

Click to expand...

CaNNaBiZ CaNucK said:

No argument here, bro

Click to expand...

thanks for keepin it peaceful yall, both helped

Jonus said:

Jawbrodt is correct. Those seedlings are over fed and over watered.

On an aside, its not just leaf sets as Jawbrodt correctly stated. If you have seeded your plants in slow release fertilized soil then its going to be a struggle from the get go. The more you water the more ferts will be released. The best method is to grow the seedlings in specially prepared seedling mix from your garden centers if you havent done much of that before. Once you are comfortable with it you could try seeding them in soiless mix that is not preloaded with nutrient, then add your own.

If you use premixed soil, ask the people at the grow shop or garden center how long plants will veg in that particular soil without you needing to add fertilizer. Most premixed soils can go 4-6 weeks without needing to add any.

The second factor is leaf sets as much discussed on grow forums.

But the third factor and one that is pretty much ignored is the roots. Root development is just as important when determining the strength of nutrient or need for nutrient (premixed soil aside) but, it is difficult to determine just how developed roots can be so there are a couple of ways of figuring out how well developed they are. The most obvious is to check roots at the bottom of your pots to see how many are protruding. Another method is the easiest and involves no stress whatsoever on your plants and that is to check the bottom two leaf sets.

When those two leaf set fan leaves are either at the pots edge or even extending past the edge, then that is a good sign that roots have filled out the pot and the plant is mature enough to step up the feeding regiment. They are not always an indicator of a need for more nutrient, but that is an accurate indicator that your plants roots have properly developed and therefore at anytime after that you can decide to step things up to the next level.

Hope that helps.

Click to expand...

yea i actually realized right when i put up this thread that it is overwatering, so im gonna cut back - the reason was, its a home seed starting mix so i thought it might just not have had any nutes, and the cotyledons were jusssttt starting to lighten in color
i added some compost juice, and i think thats what made it keep going to where it is now, lookin like a nute deficiency

ill keep yall posted! thanks,

Thorough watering then thorough drying of soil is the most beneficial method of watering plants. Its a patience game, waiting for that pot to dry out completely, but in the end your plants will love you for it.

yea i was all about that before on my outside grow, but i guess with the shotglass grow i wasnt payin as much attention to the frequency of watering since theyre so small

k maybe im more of a dumbass then i thought - my white widow in a 4 oz shotglass has a slight green tint in a ring just below the surface of the soil, my guess is some fungus. i have had fungus on top of the soil of an indoor house plant before, but it was a winter fungus and not the same one
the good news, im transplanting it tomorrow into a 3/4 gallon pot so i think that might kill it if it was something on the inside of the shotglass (i may have been stoned and thought it was clean when it wasnt)
anyone heard of this before?

Light plus nutrient = algae. Simply cut off the ability of light to get to the root area and the algae will die.

sweet thanks man, i transplanted it to a black plastic pot just under a gallon, so it should be straight
- next step up is 3 gallon buckets, ill probly put my two babies in them a week or two into flower

here's the grow journal i just started for em, check it out!!


https://www.rollitup.org/grow-journals/305190-ghettohippie-cabinet-fiesta-white-widow.html

whatsup yall, just stoppin by to say hello

everybody feel free to come by the grow and check it out- after a bit of water damage their getting pampered and thriving, with flower coming within the next 2/3 days
the mary james is at 50 days veg (wow its been awhile already) and has been topped for 4 colas
the white widow is at 39 days and was fimmed, each plant is about 8/9 inches high