Autoflowering Males...

We all know that most decent autoflowers only come in feminized form...Thus, to create a decent auto male, for your own breeding, you need to cross it to a photo and breed it out a couple generations...
Just curious what other pollen chuckers have come up with so far for a male auto breeder.?
Here is one of the males I used for my last run..Decent Sativa skew, about 40" tall.. had a nice floral citrusy smell...tons of pollen, hollow stem
(Sorry didnt realize the background would wash out the picture so much)

Definitely not true. You spray one branch with sodium thiosulfate and literally reverse the one branch you sprayed (meaning turn one branch male while all of the other plant stays female) You should only do this through one breeding cycle because you aren't supposed to interbreed more than once. But it's a good way to create your own feminized autoflower seeds.

Guerrilla..
Well then your your breeding is no more than a hack program as anyone who knows what they are talking about knows that reversing a female doesnt produce male pollen!

You use proper photo males bred to an Auto female...2 generations.. and reclaim the 1 in 4 recessive auto gene...

If you're going to criticize..please make an effort to understand what your're talking about in the first place rather than spreading misinformation.

Toad

I put a little bit of raz cough pollen on a little of that purple plant......so far I have 3 seeds that look very good. I can't wait to see what they turn out like.

MrToad69 said:

Well then your your breeding is no more than a hack program

Click to expand...

I wouldn't really call it a "hack program" it's pretty common practice once you stabilize your auto's. May I ask why you want specifically male pollen ? It seems like you're taking 2 steps back when it's so much easier to take 2 established female auto's that you like and work with them ?

I'm still learning, I've done a few cycles now of reversals and pollen chucking. But it seems like all of my S1's are perfect copies of itself and my F1's have all turned out to be great crosses.

Zog..

Breeding..plain and simple.

The point was made that most decent auto's only come in "Feminized" form thus to "properly" create a breeding program for autos..you need an Auto male..not simply chucking around feminized pollen and thinking your're in the right track.

By using feminized pollen...your using just female "X" genes to propagate and leaving anything with an associated "Y"
more and more diluted.

To get an auto male..you have to start somewhere..

Zog

Just a heads up..

When you self a plant..you are not making perfect copies of the mother...It's not like a cutting.

That feminized pollen can draw numerous permutations and combinations of alleles to make each chromosome...and recombine with the mother to make seeds

Toad

So I took my time to reply because I wanted to consider what you are saying. Breeding and genetics is a bit complicated and admittingly over my head when you dive deeper into it. A lot of the info I have gathered is from a "dude grows Nov 4/18" vid featuring Mr.Soul from brothers grim. He talks about CS and STS and how it's used in his breeding program for fem seeds. I would assume most large scale breeders are using this method after they stabilize their genetics. Looking at auto flowers specifically it's the only thing that makes sense from a breeders standpoint to continually get stable auto's time and time again.

From what I have seen in the few tests that I have done the S1 have come out the exact same as the parent. I'm not seeing any sort of "permutations" of genes. I think if that was the case I would see a lot more cases of the ruderalis or lack of the auto gene coming through. Talking with other people using CS or STS have come to the same conclusion. I have noticed when crossing plant "A" with plant "B" (I believe f1) some variations between the seeds. But for the most part they are a welcome variance in my garden.

Keep in mind I'm piggy backing on already established genetics from good breeders.

Zogs..

Good job trying to establish your knowledge and foundations..cheers

Ive taken a
Lot of university level genetics classes...way back when.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are spreading "I think" vs "I know"...when you "self"a plant you ARE NOT Creating an identical copy of the mother...The only way that would be possible is that if all the genes were Homozygous...either dominant or recessive..

Example..If you take a photo period males (PP) and cross it with an Autoflower female (pp)...all of the offspring will be Photoperiod heterozygous plants (Pp)...crossing these f2's begin to produce variations..PP, Pp and pp...
When you cross a heterozygous female Pp with itself through feminization...those variations will continue to appear in the offspring...
Just think of that Heterozygous female, photoperiod...Pp..it's pollen offers all the permutations and combinations of its alleles when crossed with itself..and has the potential to create photoperiod as well as Autoflowering traits..



As your next step, I would recommend you look into Punnett Squares to get a better handle on this..

Cheers

MrToad69 said:

Zog

Just a heads up..

When you self a plant..you are not making perfect copies of the mother...It's not like a cutting.

That feminized pollen can draw numerous permutations and combinations of alleles to make each chromosome...and recombine with the mother to make seeds

Toad

Click to expand...

Who said im pollinating

MrToad69 said:

Zogs..

Good job trying to establish your knowledge and foundations..cheers

Ive taken a
Lot of university level genetics classes...way back when.

Unfortunately, a lot of people are spreading "I think" vs "I know"...when you "self"a plant you ARE NOT Creating an identical copy of the mother...The only way that would be possible is that if all the genes were Homozygous...either dominant or recessive..

Example..If you take a photo period males (PP) and cross it with an Autoflower female (pp)...all of the offspring will be Photoperiod heterozygous plants (Pp)...crossing these f2's begin to produce variations..PP, Pp and pp...
When you cross a heterozygous female Pp with itself through feminization...those variations will continue to appear in the offspring...
Just think of that Heterozygous female, photoperiod...Pp..it's pollen offers all the permutations and combinations of its alleles when crossed with itself..and has the potential to create photoperiod as well as Autoflowering traits..



As your next step, I would recommend you look into Punnett Squares to get a better handle on this..

Cheers

Click to expand...

I want to know where anyone said either one of us were crossing autos with photos.

Guerilla B

Stick to the kids table as this is beyond you...

I really dont care if you're crossing autos with photos, or any other trait for that matter...I'm giving examples of how genetics and breeding operate in a proper environment..

Your suggestion that feminization is proper breeding protocol as opposed to a replication option...spreads misinformation.

It's not spreading misinformation. It's an opinion or a preference. Get your facts straight Mr I know everything.

You dont properly breed strains using just females genetics

MrToad69 said:

You dont properly breed strains using just females genetics

Click to expand...

Glad you put “properly” in there.

It may not be proper, but that’s the way I’ve been breeding autos for years. I couldn’t be happier.

MrToad69 said:

You dont properly breed strains using just females genetics

Click to expand...

I'm finding it difficult to get on board with that. Every feminized seed sold is from just female genetics. I'm pretty sure every stabilized auto flower sold is simply an S1 once they get the pheno they like. I understand that a male was used early on in the development, I just don't think it's needed later on.

Zogs

You're mistaking "breeding" with "replication"...

When creating new strains, breeders go through countless plants to identify qualities worthy if breeding and creating new lines...Once they've dialed them in over a few generations...to create more consistent homozygous genetics...they then begin to feminize plants...for use, seeds and commercial sale

These should be fairly stable...

as you know...female is XX..and male is XY...

By using feminization as the foundation for breeding...the "Y" and its associated influence gets increasingly diluted out...decreasing the diversity of your genetics

MrToad69 said:

You dont properly breed strains using just females genetics

Click to expand...

You have a valid point toad.

So question would you recommend buying regular autos and crossing it with another feminized auto. Or crossing regular photo with autos.

Or simply shop Ruderalis indica from sensi seeds and mash that into your girls.

Guerrilla

If you buy regular autos to find your male (fewer options available), to cross with your auto female, you can save yourself some time as you don't have to breed it out 2 generations to start finding the recessive auto gene pop up again in the phenotypes of the offspring.

That said, if you're particular, like me...you create you own line of Auto regulars to get your males..Photoperiod strain options will give you far greater diversity to come up with your own preferences and thus give you greater flexibility...It just comes down to how much time you want to put into it..Once you create you own unique line of Autos...you pheno hunt for what you're looking for then continue to stabilize f2's and f'3 for something to call your own

Good luck..

Budz

I wouldnt bother using a straight Rudy in a breeding program, unless you are looking for certain terpenes or CBD already identified in that strain.
Most recreational cannabis users are looking for THC as well as similar psychoactive components..
Breeders have spent years trying to reduce or enhance genes within Autoflowers to create what we have today...so why go back to the beginning?

I see this as different from the traditional "Landrace" debate. With old school Landraces, hybridizing helped create strains that could be grow at home in more compact settings. Unfortunately, over the years, in an effort to achieve certain desired effects, many believe some cannabinoids were lost or compromised...With ruderalis,we've simply wanted to extract the Autoflower gene.

As Autoflower breeder continue their quest..they have come up with well respected plants...that offer diversity and size...not the questionable runts from the days of old.

Find a grower you respect and build off of what they've established. For example, There are tons of White Widow Auto options out their offering size and quality..

Just some thoughts
Toad