"Area 51 LED" Information and discussion

az2000

Well-Known Member
A repurchase limits supply and RAISES price, not lowers it. Unless your company suks, then the price goes down any way. See this for the stock performance, dismal.
A more positive way to describe a repo is that the leadership has more faith in the company's earning potential than the market does. So much so that it would violate the leadership's fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of shareholders by leaving capital reserves in low-earning deposits. Repos don't necessarily raise share price, but they do offset the downward trajectory. More importantly, when the company performs to the level (which the leadership has faith it will, and the market doesn't) the repo rewards shareholders who were faithful because their share value will rebound more strongly as the market float (available shares to be purchased) is smaller. It also positions the company to raise more capital when it sells stock from its treasury.

Hope that's not off-topic. I haven't followed Cree. They may be performing poorly as you suggest. All I wanted to say is that sometimes performance and stock price are unrelated. Investors could have had higher expectations than they should have, there could have been a missed deliverable at some point. For whatever reason, the market doesn't value Cree very highly. But, the fact that the leadership is transferring capital indicates they have a substantially different view. Instead of spending money on engineers and equipment to perform better, they expect they'll perform well enough that their cash reserves are better invested by returning capital to investors.

Seems like a strong reason to believe Cree has something going for itself, not "sux." But, like I said, I haven't followed it.
 
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captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Question: 1. what's the difference between xml and xpl. 2. Are cobs easy to construct?
The XM-L and XP-L are Cree names for different generations of their LEDs. The XM-L's are about two gens back and the XP-L's are Cree's latest and most efficient LED's capable of 200 lumens per watt. Depending on the COB it can be very easy and some like the Cree CXA 3070's don't even need to be soldered,just drill and tap two holes and use a solder-less holder.
 

TiffiCan

New Member
I have 3x3x5 area and will be doing a single plant.
I'm not in a rush to start, reading as much info as I can get before I start, plus I got 1-2 months for soil to cook.
Does RW-150 seem like a good match ? Or the newer unit with 10w leds is better to wait for ?

I'm asking because I don't have a lot of height, I'm guessing 30'' wasted up top (distance for flowering + light + top of light for ventilation) and around 10'' for pot.
That leaves me with 20'' for a actual plant, and I remember reading you guys speculating that 10w led might need even more distance for flowering.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
The XM-L and XP-L are Cree names for different generations of their LEDs. The XM-L's are about two gens back and the XP-L's are Cree's latest and most efficient LED's capable of 200 lumens per watt. Depending on the COB it can be very easy and some like the Cree CXA 3070's don't even need to be soldered,just drill and tap two holes and use a solder-less holder.

the XHP are ....................might see a fixture with them this year or not
 

BigEasy1

Well-Known Member
I have 3x3x5 area and will be doing a single plant.
I'm not in a rush to start, reading as much info as I can get before I start, plus I got 1-2 months for soil to cook.
Does RW-150 seem like a good match ? Or the newer unit with 10w leds is better to wait for ?

I'm asking because I don't have a lot of height, I'm guessing 30'' wasted up top (distance for flowering + light + top of light for ventilation) and around 10'' for pot.
That leaves me with 20'' for a actual plant, and I remember reading you guys speculating that 10w led might need even more distance for flowering.
I don't know exactly what they are putting out as far as 10 watt but for one plant, the RW-150 will work great. Get started now. Look at the grow journals.
 

az2000

Well-Known Member
That leaves me with 20'' for a actual plant, and I remember reading you guys speculating that 10w led might need even more distance for flowering.
I've speculated 10w will make it even harder to use A51 in a shorter space. But, Jeff posted once that it is intended to have removable reflectors, lenses and a dimmer. Also, it's supposed to be light rails, like a 150 split lengthwise(?). That would allow for more distribution, cantilevered hanging, etc.

Your 5' tall space is (IMO) on the border of what would be acceptable for an RW-75. I have a 4' tall space and I won't use my RW-75 in it because saving 6" of vertical space is a lot. For your 5' space it would depend on how important it is for you to grow your plants a little taller. For my shorter space, a little taller can mean a lot (as a percentage of total plant height).

Notwithstanding the question of vertical height, in a 3x3 I would do four RW-75. That would give you 33w/sq ft. Four fixtures will give you more coverage and flexibility in hanging than two 150s. If you wanted to add some watts in flower you could add some Cree lightbulbs from Home Depot as sidelighting.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
The situation is still a bit fluid but it looks like the XP-L light is on hold for now unless there is a big improvement in availability in the supply chain. It's looking like the COB panel is going to be first with Vero 29's. Nothing is written in stone but it's looking like single COB units at 95 watts that can be used separately or up to 8 can be connected together for a total of 760 watts. They would also have removable reflectors for those with height restrictions and he may offer different spectrums,they have 2700k,3000k,3500k,4000k,5000k,5600k available from bridgelux.

Lets hear from the LED community on this design.

I would like to see a dimmer to make the unit even more versatile.
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
I have 3x3x5 area and will be doing a single plant.
I'm not in a rush to start, reading as much info as I can get before I start, plus I got 1-2 months for soil to cook.
Does RW-150 seem like a good match ? Or the newer unit with 10w leds is better to wait for ?

I'm asking because I don't have a lot of height, I'm guessing 30'' wasted up top (distance for flowering + light + top of light for ventilation) and around 10'' for pot.
That leaves me with 20'' for a actual plant, and I remember reading you guys speculating that 10w led might need even more distance for flowering.
For that short of a area you'll need to control plant height by LST,scrog or maybe mainline and or have a Indica dom plant,you may even look at having a shorter and wider soil container. 4 RW-75's over a 3x3 scrog of a single plant would maximize the space nicely. You'll have to decide if you want to match the space to the plant or match the plant to the space.
 

mrrager420

Well-Known Member
I like the idea of the single cob units that can be connected. Just curious on the prices being that anyone can order the COBs and make their own set up. Of course you're gonna have people that rather just buy a pre made panel especially if the price is right. I'm one of those even though I'm planning to attempt my own build soon. Options to dim would be nice if was just that, an option. I'm sure it'll affect the price and some people may not want it.
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
The situation is still a bit fluid but it looks like the XP-L light is on hold for now unless there is a big improvement in availability in the supply chain. It's looking like the COB panel is going to be first with Vero 29's. Nothing is written in stone but it's looking like single COB units at 95 watts that can be used separately or up to 8 can be connected together for a total of 760 watts. They would also have removable reflectors for those with height restrictions and he may offer different spectrums,they have 2700k,3000k,3500k,4000k,5000k,5600k available from bridgelux.

Lets hear from the LED community on this design.

I would like to see a dimmer to make the unit even more versatile.
This approach sounds like it would offer great versatility in terms of growers with different sized spaces to illuminate. I wonder what it might mean in terms of choosing a light that works great for both veg and flower. From what I've been reading, you guys with COB experience seem to suggest that the ideal spectrum for flower (while it may still work) is not ideal for veg and vice versa. Would you say that the best all purpose solution would be to mix and match spectra @captainmorgan? What's your opinion?

EDIT: It's a shame they've had these supply issues, but at the end of the day, they seem to be doing all they can to improvise and adapt!
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
That really depends on the strain and grow style. Stardustsailor grew a couple plants from seed under one of his DIY 3000k COB lights and they were beautiful little bushes. I got second place in the last party cup with a 3000k COB from seed,she was stretched pretty bad but that strain does that anyways.
 

Heavy Consumer

Well-Known Member
That really depends on the strain and grow style. Stardustsailor grew a couple plants from seed under one of his DIY 3000k COB lights and they were beautiful little bushes. I got second place in the last party cup with a 3000k COB from seed,she was stretched pretty bad but that strain does that anyways.
Nice! So do you think for those of us not in commercial op's, looking to try different strains, that pure 3000k is the most versatile choice, or would you be inclined to mix in some 4000k to improve performance in vegging?
 

captainmorgan

Well-Known Member
Nice! So do you think for those of us not in commercial op's, looking to try different strains, that pure 3000k is the most versatile choice, or would you be inclined to mix in some 4000k to improve performance in vegging?
3000k seems to be the sweet spot for flowering with COBs. With these linkable panels you could have a few 5600k panels (if they offer them) to swap out the 3000k's for veg if you do both in the same space.(strain dependent)
 

mc130p

Well-Known Member
The new website seems like it worked. Just bought two lights so we shall see.
not if you look at them for too long ;)

I agree with the above posters. I think that a modular system is the best over a big panel, and that the use of rails would make many units much easier to handle...so they would be suitable for a wide variety of users. good stuff.
 

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Yea,with the speed of LED tech advancements it's impossible to keep up.
There is an American led grow light manufacturer tinkering with them(XHP) in the shop as we speak..........got to see if it lives up to the hype and designing the rest around it=== could be months before it comes out or gets scrapped. IDK

Most have to realize that cobs don't contain their top-bin chips=== but as a package , it is still very appealing. JTs are also something that leans into individual chips favor as well.


Credit(guod)

Our calculations based on the datasheets from leading Taiwanese manufacturers - Epistar/Epileds, show that there can be as much as 54% difference in efficiency compared with best individual LEDs from top manufacturers. Besides, manufacturers usually don’t put their best crystals into COBs. Even Cree declares about 34% less efficiency for their best COBs today, compared with individual LEDs.

A shorter thermal path in COBs is usually listed as an advantage, however, this is not as simple as it seems. As an example, let us consider Cree’s newest COBs. As one of World’s top leaders in LED technologies, this company pays closest attention to improving the thermal characteristics of their products. According to the datasheets, thermal resistance of Cree’s COBs varies from 2.5°C/W for CXA1507 to an impressive 0.8°C/W for CXA2530. Seems to be pretty good, huh? Only until we notice that, say, CXA2520 may consume up to 50W of power. According to the datasheet (see the picture below), this will add a significant 40С to junction temperature above the temperature of the LED case. For CXA2530, with 61W power consumption, junction temperature will be even higher.


Fig 3 Main characteristics of Cree CXA2520

Note that the thermal resistance of COBs from Asian manufacturers is usually even higher than those of Cree. This can result in serious overheating of the crystal (even though the heatsink temperature may stay in the acceptable range).
 
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