Are there ANY Christians on RIU?

abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Nitegazer said:
One magic trick that works for many: Wait a while and everything will disappear-- EVERYTHING. Faith is an approach to incorporate the unknowable in our lives.
Click to expand...
Nothing is unknowable. We just have not learned it yet.

Enter the realm of discovery. In order to do so, you must free yourself from preconceived notions and foregone conclusions.

Do not say, "Here are the conclusions. Find facts to support them."

But say, "Here are the facts. What conclusions can we draw from them?"

Now I will reference the poetry of a beautifully written epic from centuries ago. It was written to guide people and in it's time, I believe that it was a good thing, and the text still has much value.

Romans, chapter 12, verse 2, King James Bible:

"And be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God."

Go discover, arrive at conclusions, do not make them.
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
cannabineer said:
In my humble onion ... when eye says "how can a person use mundane words to describe something beyond it?", that deserves respect. I am not convinced, myself ... but more importantly, I am not counterconvinced. I have not done much psychedelic travel, but the bit I did educated me in the sheer power of ideas, perceptions etc. that simply cannot be reduced to language, and so are freed from either the necessity or even the availability of proof, or disproof. While I am generally a very verbal and reason-driven individual, the lesson for me was that reason is not all of it. It is simultaneously frustrating and oddly comforting that reality isn't everywhere definite, reducible to language. I believe that the incommunicable contains something real, even as I am not fond of ascribing something as anthropocentric as "consciousness" or "will" or "identity" to that. cn

<edit> Tyler, I think this post speaks to your question as well.
Click to expand...
Thanks, Neer. I cannot relate because, although I've had many fantastic, ethereal experiences (including dropping a LOT of acid and shrooms) I've never had trouble putting them into language that anyone could understand. Eye doesn't seem to have any trouble relaying his ideas with language, it seems the trouble comes in when trying to back them up. if some ideas/perceptions are freed from proof or disproof because they cannot be reduced to language, it seems strange to try to share them on a forum that relies on the written word...
 
Nitegazer

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Don't mistake the hate of others as emanating from me. I want to believe.
Click to expand...

I don't mistake that. I responded to your post specifically because I read sincerity. I also respect your approach.

When I was in college, I was approached by a born again fellow. He tried to convince me that he could see devils and demons (real ones) in Dungeons and Dragons books. He told me I could see them too if I sincerely prayed with him for deliverance. I knelt down with him and prayed-- never did see demons, and the guy never showed up again.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
tyler.durden said:
Thanks, Neer. I cannot relate because, although I've had many fantastic, ethereal experiences (including dropping a LOT of acid and shrooms) I've never had trouble putting them into language that anyone could understand. Eye doesn't seem to have any trouble relaying his ideas with language, it seems the trouble comes in when trying to back them up. if some ideas/perceptions are freed from proof or disproof because they cannot be reduced to language, it seems strange to try to share them on a forum that relies on the written word...
Click to expand...
Tyler, i wish i knew how to respond to this. I am amazed that you have not had experiences mediated by acid or shrooms that you can't put into words. I had an opposite experience, which for one as verbal as I seemed like a warning: words are not the territory.
What our comparative experiences seem to underline is that individual humans have rather diverse experiences to similar stimuli. This makes me even less confident that a true science of the mind is even on the horizon, to say nothing of it being within our grasp. I feel apologetic for being constrained to plead such profound ignorance. cn
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Psychedelic experiences are what you make them. That offers no evidence of anything, no matter how you cut it, faith is required. Faith is nothing more than preconceived notion. You cannot discover if you already know.
 
Nitegazer

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
abandonconflict said:
Psychedelic experiences are what you make them. That offers no evidence of anything, no matter how you cut it, faith is required. Faith is nothing more than preconceived notion. You cannot discover if you already know.
Click to expand...

Faith is more like a longing-- a mixture of hope, dread and perseverance. People wouldn't fight so much over a 'notion'.
 
ThE sAtIvA hIgH

ThE sAtIvA hIgH

Well-Known Member
i have faith that goblins exist .
i have faith the tooth fairy exists .
i have faith bigfoot is living in my wardrobe but hes invisible but if you have faith you will know hes in there .
 
abandonconflict

abandonconflict

Well-Known Member
Nitegazer said:
Faith is more like a longing-- a mixture of hope, dread and perseverance. People wouldn't fight so much over a 'notion'.
Click to expand...
In context sure. Religious faith manifests as that mixture. No need to argue semantics though. I say live and let live, but the first post in this thread was actually very promising, I seemed to have a "Christian" ally, he turned out to be as hateful as he accuses others of being. Not very Christ like.
 

Attachments

cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
abandonconflict said:
Psychedelic experiences are what you make them. That offers no evidence of anything, no matter how you cut it, faith is required. Faith is nothing more than preconceived notion. You cannot discover if you already know.
Click to expand...
Can being "pretty sure" of something not be counted as an instance of faith? cn
 
eye exaggerate

eye exaggerate

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Hey, Eye! When one brings up ideas but don't back them up with anything concrete, they can be hard to take seriously. You seem so eloquent, it's hard to believe that you couldn't put any experience into words. I find it curious that people that bring up concrete concepts based in reality have no trouble putting them into words, I myself have beautifully transcendent experiences that I've never had trouble explaining in detail. i.e. one can engage in a discussion about biology or cosmology without having prior knowledge (or 'taste') of the subject, why is it so different for the topic of faith? You know I mean no offense, just inquiring...
Click to expand...
...you're fortunate to be able to describe them. I'm guessing it also comes out as violin playing? I can't put most of it into words because it is an extremely personal thing. Also because the story itself is pretty crazy and not something to be playing with on a forum. I like to give bits and pieces so that people can go on their own and piece their own puzzle together. One thing I can say is that this has a lot to do with a person's sexual energies and how they use them. Also, mine does come out as art so even more incomprehensible considering I lean toward the abstract. Oy :)

What would be one thing I could answer...?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
eye exaggerate said:
...you're fortunate to be able to describe them. I'm guessing it also comes out as violin playing? I can't put most of it into words because it is an extremely personal thing. Also because the story itself is pretty crazy and not something to be playing with on a forum. I like to give bits and pieces so that people can go on their own and piece their own puzzle together. One thing I can say is that this has a lot to do with a person's sexual energies and how they use them. Also, mine does come out as art so even more incomprehensible considering I lean toward the abstract. Oy :)

What would be one thing I could answer...?
Click to expand...
Since my sexual energies have ebbed ... could I "go alternative"? But not wind energy ... too verbose. cn
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top