Apache AT600 led vs 1000w HPS Blue Dream Grow

Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
natro.hydro said:
If you taken It out of the led section I will follow, not a forum snob lol. But be prepared for them to not not play as nice as us lol. Think about all the douches that have tools that have rolled through this thread. Will follow your grows any ways tho

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Click to expand...
I would be ready for it. It's going to be hard to argue anything really after this round. Like he said below...I'm going big. So it should be impressive on any scale if thing go smoothly. I will just grow and show as usual.
stardustsailor said:
Hmmmmm...
Weird...
The overall wattage used per fixture is one-third that of high-pressure sodium (325 vs, 1,000 watts).
:confused:
The heat generated by the LED fixtures is more than four times less than traditional lamps. LED values 800 btus/hr per device were quoted by the manufacturer, Novato, Calif.-based LumiGrow (www.lumigrow.com), vs. the 3,800 btus/hr for each high-pressure sodium device.
:?:
http://www.greenhousemag.com/gm0414-greenhouse-LED-conversion.aspx
Click to expand...
Interesting. I wonder what the "experts" would say if a cxa walked through their door.

And their but for the led is wrong...but go figure.
OutofLEDCloset said:
Great video. Go big. Down with the greedy haters!!
Click to expand...
Thanks man. We are thinking alike.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
I have flowered under every Apache spectrum...All White(CW), R1, R2, Red/Blue. They are all about the same in final yield with just some differences in plant shape. Buds don't get as dense and big but it's not crazy different.

What you just said about CW being more efficient and giving more photons is a reason why AT uses CW "enhanced" with reds...It's the most efficient ay to make the spectrum. But now days WW are starting to become efficient enough that it's just easier to use them...but technically CW COBS with "enhanced" red would be even better. But these days reds need to step up their efficiency...whites are better than reds now.
Click to expand...

TEMPERATURE STABILITY OF COLORED LED ELEMENTS.


(...)

Greenhouse LED-based emitters typically employ LED chips that emit monochromatic
light that match the absorbance peaks of important plant pigments, such as the red and blue
peaks of leaf photosynthetic action spectra. The disadvantage of such devices is the necessity
to provide different circuits for the current supply for the blue and red chips (typically based
on (Al, In,Ga)N and (Al,Ga,In)P semiconductor systems, respectively),and different
temperature stability of the different chips [7,8].
It is known that thermal losses of optical
power in LEDs are generally associated with the processes of non-radiative recombination
(via deep levels and/or at the surface),
and carrier loss over heterostructure barriers. Among
chips of various colors, the blue ones typically demonstrate the best thermal stability as,
among other factors, they possess the deepest quantum wells that
provide the strongest carrier confinement [7].
The recent results indicate that luminous flux decay of the LEDs with the temperature
increasing is indeed dependent on the chip material used[8], and not so much on
the thermal resistance of the chips, which, in principle, can be adjusted. This makes it really
difficult to match temperature stability of chips made of different materials, and makes one
search for other solutions.‘Phosphor’ solutions, which rely on a single kind of chips for the
‘basic’ color (typically, blue) and chemical phosphors for producing other colors (e.g., red)
are becoming of interest in this respect. Phosphors, however, are also known to suffer from
thermal effects [9–11]even though their nature is different: two major mechanisms that are
believed to be responsible for the thermal quenching in phosphors are the Stokes shift and
photoionization [12,13]. The question of comparative temperature stability of LED elements
based on solely chips and chip-and-phosphor,therefore, requires investigation. The aim of
the present paper is to compare the changes in characteristics that occur with increasing the
temperature of greenhouse LED elements based on blue, red and far-red LED chips, and
blue chips and red phosphor.

(...)

(...)
4.
Conclusions
For the first time, a direct experimental comparison of the temperature stability of colored
(blue-red) LED elements based on chips only and chip-and-phosphor has been made.
Decrease of the optical power and wall plug efficiency with board temperature increasing
with the DC current flow has been considered in samples with blue chips emitting at the
wavelength λ=455nm, red ones with λ=660nm and λ=730nm, and LED elements with blue chips with
λ=455 nm
and red nitride phosphor with λ=670nm. Thermal stability of
the samples based on blue chips appeared to be the best among the considered samples. For
them, only 4 % of optical power was lost when board temperature rose up to 50°C, while for
red (660 nm) and far-red (730 nm) LEDs the losses were 7 % and 11 %, respectively.
Thermal stability of the optical power of phosphor-containing samples at low concentration
of luminescent particles was a little smaller than that of blue LEDs due to insignificant effect
of low thermal stability of the phosphor on the system stability. However, the decrease of
optical power of the samples with 8 % phosphor concentration at 50
°C amounted to 8%.WPE dependences have shown the same tendencies as the optical power.
In general, the obtained results showed that ‘phosphor-based’ solutions are indeed promising for
applications where colored LEDs are required and temperature stability is important, such as,
e.g., greenhouse lighting.

(...)


http://www.ipme.ru/e-journals/MPM/no_21813/MPM218_05_vinogradova.pdf


......
Those are the phosphor conversion "whites" I'm waiting for ,to hit the market ...
(Hopefully in a COB format ...)

445-455 nm blue chip as excitation source and 670 nm (peak) red nitride phosphor ..
(Actually the light will be rather 'pinkish ' ...)

That kind of PC whites we need ..

Cheers.
 
bilbo182

bilbo182

Active Member
I just cracked and ordered a red light cob unit to use in flowering, dosen't feel like there are enough reds in my 2 panels for doing the best job.

Btw, the UK company, GrowNorthern are bringing what they call groundbreaking new lights out next month. No info yet but promises to be a lot cooler and a lot less power use for the same output so most likely using better semiconductors to produce specific bandwidths.
 
Last edited:
bilbo182

bilbo182

Active Member
Red1966 said:
Everybody's lights are "groundbreaking".
Click to expand...
Yup, I should have used inverted commas too :)

They've had us guessing over on AFN, my guess was it could be new types of polymer/organic lab grown semiconductors that naturally have the the band gap to produce a specific bandwidth of light (purer light for less power) instead of using the standard gallium arsenide to "convert" the initial light to the bandwidths we see in our panels.

Here's their "press" release;
Hi AFN,
Its great to see so much excitement about our new units. Just a quick comment to clear up some of the conflicting views on this thread. GN has made no public announcement about the new units other than that we will be releasing one. People who have talked to us direct we have given a small bit information about the units but much has been kept private and will be kept private until we are ready to deploy the new units in order to protect our design concepts. I understand the confusion if you have been on our site and think we are releasing a new UK built Modular series light but that's not the case. This new unit is the first and flag ship of a new series all together and we will not be working with any China or Taiwan R&D based led or driver manufacturing companies (that is literally the fundamental idea behind building a new series of lights). What I will say to those looking at the current market of Chinese built lights and comparing the price and power consumption of the new GN unit, there is nothing available from China that will yield results in the same ball park when considering efficiency, reliability and application adaptation.

We have and always will strive to keep the BOM vs mark up of the whole unit very competitive which is a big concern when cutting ties with sourcing materials and manufacturing in Asia as we have just done (this is why we no longer sell the modular series). We are using a completely unique business model and assembly process to any of the Chinese and US companies producing LED lights. As a 3 man team (total) we will be producing 200 units per week in the UK providing high quality integration though low over heads per unit even compared to factories in Asia. From GN the units are sold to the customer with out any of the China shipping and factory costs added on the BOM mark up.
None of our components come from companies that aren't among the most respected and innovative in their field for research and design such as Philips Lighting and Philips Lumileds. The new unit has optical, control, thermal, and electrical design features that we have not disclosed and are not used in any existing LED grow light.

Please be patient and positive. We can all discuss the details at length when they are ready to be released which will be finalized later this week. Thankyou to everyone who has supported GN thus far and know that we will do our bit to progress this industry to the next level of quality and performance.
Click to expand...
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Today was a great day. Got to test the COB drone the best ways possible.


Specroradiometer reading of my COB drone...
IMG_3759.jpg


Flowering Footprint...3x3 from 12". It is clear as hell it will dominate a 3x3. Good solid intensity...but man look at the spread! It's so consistent.
IMG_3757.jpg

Vegatative Footprint...4x4 from 24". I have had it at about 20 in my room, but this is a good look/reference.
IMG_3758.jpg
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
My new toy is here...
IMG_3753.jpg

I got a new at600 instead of a few more at200's. So no test of one big unit vs multiple. Someone else will have to do that.
Seems like a blanket of diodes over almost the whole canopy now. It's the production model so a little better spacing and one power cord compared to my first one.
It is tuned down a little, on purpose...655w compared to 685w.
 
stardustsailor

stardustsailor

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
My new toy is here...
View attachment 3208670

I got a new at600 instead of a few more at200's. So no test of one big unit vs multiple. Someone else will have to do that.
Seems like a blanket of diodes over almost the whole canopy now. It's the production model so a little better spacing and one power cord compared to my first one.
It is tuned down a little, on purpose...655w compared to 685w.
Click to expand...
Is it the photo ,or the new AT600 is slightly 'curved',also ?
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
I also got to play with a buddies new neo sol DS...I will get a report once he gets a run under it. I was unimpressed for what they claim. Solid light if it weren't for the expectations it puts out. Intensity is not what growers house is reporting. But not bad. I didn't do a full chart of the DS or the IG. Just some quick measurement.
Both above 600µmols@18". The DS held the intensity on the outer edge a little better. But the pontoons don't make a huge difference other than the spectral bump. So my point is that the IG isn't too $$ for just the induction...and comparatively is in the same class perforce wise and a real full spectrum light. Also they both target similar customers outside of MJ so I thought they would be good.
IMG_3738.jpg
The DS is good for about a 4x2 imo to compare to AT and 1000w #'s. I really wonder/question what their new light will be like.

Cool pics...
.IMG_3741.jpg

R/B is misleading to the eye...seems like it covers and is intense...meter says differently.
 
PSUAGRO.

PSUAGRO.

Well-Known Member
Greengenes707 said:
I also got to play with a buddies new neo sol DS...I will get a report once he gets a run under it. I was unimpressed for what they claim. Solid light if it weren't for the expectations it puts out. Intensity is not what growers house is reporting. But not bad. I didn't do a full chart of the DS or the IG. Just some quick measurement.
Both above 600µmols@18". The DS held the intensity on the outer edge a little better. But the pontoons don't make a huge difference other than the spectral bump. So my point is that the IG isn't too $$ for just the induction...and comparatively is in the same class perforce wise and a real full spectrum light. Also they both target similar customers outside of MJ so I thought they would be good.
View attachment 3208809
The DS is good for about a 4x2 imo to compare to AT and 1000w #'s. I really wonder/question what their new light will be like.

Cool pics...
.View attachment 3208810

R/B is misleading to the eye...seems like it covers and is intense...meter says differently.
Click to expand...
Shocking:shock:......................So all that Surexi module hype== individual diode reflectors, doesn't live up in reality.

Illumi GUARANTEE a 10% crop bump/15% faster growth rates than a 1000w hid with their DS520(edit , checked their site, no more guarantees :)).........Your probably right at them targeting micro greens instead of mj with these claims.

Will see what the new Aurora(F3a) panel will bring to the table......Don't like the design tbh, prefer bars.

What do you think is causing these # discrepancies with growers house?? sales??lol
 
Greengenes707

Greengenes707

Well-Known Member
Last week when cleaning the room and building the trellis I broke my new bong I got a few months ago. You guys saw it in an update. Bummer.
Well today I dropped my back up/first ever bong.
It is 10years 4months old. Luckily just the base broke and it still works fun. Even stands still jankily. So could have been worse. But still...that is the second in a week.
FML
 
puffenuff

puffenuff

Well-Known Member
Bummer about the bongs dude. For me, there's nothing like a taking a fat rip from a clean bong.

Didnt see it mentioned, but were you able to get some readings of the new 600 with the new brighter chips? Noticed it draws slightly less watts so wondering what kind of output increase those new chips push out in terms of par numbers.
 
natro.hydro

natro.hydro

Well-Known Member
Ya I have been there man. Dont even care to sum up all the money I have spent on glass just to watch it break.... 10 years is a long time to have a peice tho, my oldest is 4 and thats just cus I do not smoke out of it a lot. To many percs makes for to much drag on bongs.

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