Any Libretarians in here?

NarrowEye

Well-Known Member
Well, Im new to America and its political arena. Before I left europe I supported a political party very similar to your Libretarian Party. I agree with its platform and values. I'd vote libretarian candidate in presidental election, never a republican candidate. Now, I watch tv rarely, but there is this guy on foxnews, at 5ET, Glenn Beck - he calls himself a libretarian - but stands opposite to many libretarian principles. Do You, american libretarians consider him as one?
 

Chase the Bass

Active Member
I hope that more Libertarians look to Ron Paul. If Glenn Beck proclaims that he is a "Libertarian" it's only for his TV persona. I presume it's to make him seem more unbiased. You can call yourself whatever you want but if you are still bat shit insane it won't work.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Well, Im new to America and its political arena. Before I left europe I supported a political party very similar to your Libretarian Party. I agree with its platform and values. I'd vote libretarian candidate in presidental election, never a republican candidate. Now, I watch tv rarely, but there is this guy on foxnews, at 5ET, Glenn Beck - he calls himself a libretarian - but stands opposite to many libretarian principles. Do You, american libretarians consider him as one?
Well, welcome to America.

Where are you moving here from?

And what made you move?

As far as Glenn Beck. I don't know if I'd call him libertarian as I don't have time to watch TV, because I pursue more interesting things than having imbecilic drivil spit at me, such as learning Japanese (working on learning the Kanji Right now) and Calculus (need it for a browser based game I'm working on.)

At any rate, once again, welcome to America.
 

ViRedd

New Member
Hi, NarrowEye ...

Welcome to America from a fellow Libertarian and Ron Paul fan.

Glenn Beck has recently moved from the Republican Party to the Libertarian Party. He's what you would call a conservative Libertarian. Beck, like many Americans, is totally fed up with both the Republicans and Democrats as both parties are leading us down the road to serfdom.

There are plenty of other libertarian commentators out there too. Try to find Mark Levin's radio show ... you'll be surprised by his expertise on the Constitution, freedom and liberty. His new book Liberty and Tyranny has been number one on the New York Times best seller list for many weeks now.

Vi
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Be careful of anyone on the TV or Radio claiming to be a libertarian.
They usually have some messed up interpritations of libertarianism.
I can't think of any that were supportive of
Ron Paul when he could have used their help.

But then it depends on your definition of libertarian as well.
Libertarians are a group at odds with themselves over a lot of things.

I like to keep it simple,
You over think it, it turns into Christian Right wing neo-con'ism
Or some sort of half ass communist utopia theory.
I don't need the state to tell me what to do.
All this control of vice is a huge waste of time, IMO.
And I'm just not willing to attack a group of people
to take their property because someone says they are greedy.
 

LiEBE420

Well-Known Member
ok buddy first off welcome to america!

but the truth is mainstream media like fox news is GARBAGE! never ever ever watch fox news or believe anything anyone ever says on it. The truth is out there but its not on fox news :peace:
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Beck and them, all talk a good game sometimes.
But when the chips are down they back a warmongering neo-con.
They are Judas Goats IMO.
 

olosto

New Member
See the "Glen Beck is a liar" thread for more info (Ignore the racist asshole), and be sure to watch the youtube videos with beck on the view and you decide. also check outsome of the other videos I oposted. Fox is by far the best produced news channel out there. It is not a representation of the average american, but sensationalism sells....

Welcome to America, now pay some fucking taxes!!!


:lol
 

medicineman

New Member
Is libretarian a European spelling of libertarian? Anyway, they are mostly nutballs with pie in the sky ideals. Libertarianism has never worked as a viable precept for government. If you had nothing but libertarians, who would take away from their selfish endeavors long enough to run a government? No-one. That is one reason it will never work, there are many others. The libertarian individual is way too involved with self to care or invest time with others, It's the me, mine, and nobody elses that fill the empty heads of libertarians.
 

CaRNiFReeK

Well-Known Member
While Glenn Beck might be a libertarian, The Glenn Beck Show is a show. You can no more trust The Glenn Beck Show for real news or political consistency than you can trust the basehead down the street won't drop dime on you for a rock. Views, Values and Principles are sold off quick in entertainment.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Is libretarian a European spelling of libertarian? Anyway, they are mostly nutballs with pie in the sky ideals. Libertarianism has never worked as a viable precept for government. If you had nothing but libertarians, who would take away from their selfish endeavors long enough to run a government? No-one. That is one reason it will never work, there are many others. The libertarian individual is way too involved with self to care or invest time with others, It's the me, mine, and nobody elses that fill the empty heads of libertarians.
Strange, if Libertarianism has never worked how do you explain the lack of Warfare in the History of the United States from our founding until the dictatorship of the Federal Government was established over the states at the end of the Civil War.

From this country's founding until the end of the Civil War we fought fewer wars, and were not involved in as many police actions as we have been since the Civil War.

Then there is the fact that the roots of the Industrial Might of the United States find their roots in the Libertarian/Night Watch Government that existed from 1798 - 1913.

The inertia created during that 120 year period was so great that it essentially carried us through to modern times, with only cry baby politicians and imbecilic economists that have no idea how markets work interfering despite the fact that because of Industrial Progress there were periods of deflation.

In fact, a look at the history of the United States Dollar will show that under a free market deflation is the norm with the period from 1800 - 1913 being marked by 15% deflation of the price of goods. That is the Dollar was worth 15% more in 1913 than it was in 1800.

Since 1913 and the inception of the Federal Reserve (Another GSE like Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac) the Dollar has lost more than 96% of its value because of the preachings of those that are pushing a flawed economic theory.

Instead of teaching the truth (that deflation is the natural state of things due to increasing productivity, and that it is unnatural for things to stagnate and stay level (including prices)) modern economic theory is filled with the fraudulent idea that prices must be held steady.

Ironically the mission of the "Federal" Reserve is supposedy to hold the value of the Dollar steady. If that was truly their mission then the dollar would still be on par with its value in 1913 instead of worth less than 4¢ against it.

Gold, against which the dollar was fixed, would not be worth $800+ Dollars, because the Dollar would still be worth 1/20th of an ounce putting its value at 20/oz of gold. This would of course mean that we would probably be discussing prices in mills (1/1000ths of a dollar) instead of in dollars right now, but that once again is the natural state of progress.

The increasing size of government has lead to increasing periods where its mismanagement of the economy has caused great harm to this nation.

Great Depression - 1929 - 1942 - Had the government not taken any action the market would have cleaned out the mismanaged forms and went back to growing.

Stagflation - 1970 - 1980 - Climbing Unemployment and Climbing Inflation

High Inflation - 1980 - 1986 - Interest Rates peaking at 20% due to government mismanagement of the money supply.

Internet Bubble - 1992 - 2001

Housing Bubble - 2003 - 2008

Ironically, there was a 2 year period at the start of the 1920s during which the United States' economy experienced a correction. The lack of government intervention meant that it became nothing more than a burp that is not even thought about or mentioned in history classes in modern times despite the fact that during that 2 year period the unemployment rate crossed 20%.

However it can be identified as a period during which industry had to retool to shift back from war time production to peace time production.

Outside of the mismanagement of the Economy the government has also acted as a belligerent.

It'd be easier to list nations where we haven't interfered in their politicis some how than to list nations that we have in the last century, but just for starters.

1899 - Spanish American War - (Spain, Cuba, Phillipines, etc.)
1903 - Panama Canal (Panama, Columbia)
1917 - World War I (France, England, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Italy, Ottoman Empire, Russia, Ukraine, Poland)
1930s - Spain
1940s - World War II (Europe, Asia)
1950s - Korea
1960s - Vietnam
1980s on
Panama
Nicaragua
Haiti
Somolia
Beirut
Lebanon
Iraq
Iran
so on and so forth.

Sadly there are fewer nations that the United States does not have military bases or soldiers in by a large margin than nations that we do have military bases or soldiers in (180+)

Libertarianism doesn't just represent true equality of individuals, which is also the ideal behind a Republic, and is represented by the traditional images of Justice being blind, but also a less corrupt and more peaceful government.

Not only was the Republic founded on Libertarianism (or Classic Liberalism) but the founders firmly believed in its principles, as can be witnessed by Thomas Jefferson, John Jay, and Benjamin Franklin's abolitionist sentiments.

It is also mentioned in one of the most mentioned quotes by George Washington about avoiding foreign entanglements (alliances) but extending the hand of friendship and trade to all.

The founding fathers were for small government, free trade, self-responsibility, and equality of all before law.

Of course the existence of that English Custom of Slavery and Indebted Servitude may mar their record for truly being Libertarian, but it does not mean that they were not in fact Libertarian.
 

olosto

New Member
Of course the existence of that English Custom of Slavery and Indebted Servitude may mar their record for truly being Libertarian, but it does not mean that they were not in fact Libertarian.

Were gunna call a duck a duck, even tho the duck might be a rooster...
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Were gunna call a duck a duck, even tho the duck might be a rooster...
John Jay - Abolitionist
Thomas Jefferson - Abolitionist
Benjamin Franklin - Abolitionist

Nor were those three the only abolitionists that were founding fathers.

Perhaps you should stop exposing us to your ignorance and actually read more history than the media sound bites that the public education system provides.

Thomas Jefferson's record stands by itself to make it clear that he would have abolished slavery had it been in his power, but the will of the rest of the population of Virginia prevented him from doing so. Then there's also the fact that his attempts to attack slavery in the Declaration of Independence were scratched out by the other delegates at the Continental Congress.

Perhaps it would be prudent to remind you that they were stuck dealing with other people and thus had to make compromises.
 

NarrowEye

Well-Known Member
Thanks for feedback fellow rollitupers :)

To TheBrutalTruth:

I moved here from Poland, a beautiful country that lays between hammer and a hard place (Germany and Russia :)) Moved couse my wifey got here a good job in science, really hardcore stuff. Im still looking for something to do but it seems hard to find anything. I wanna be wrong, but i guess my accent kills possibilities. I think about returning to somewhere in europe, prolly UK, I did well there for couple of years.

To ViRedd:

If Beck is a conservative libertarian... Id say he's just plain conservative supporting republican party. Thats how i see it. No matter how he call himself. You re so right about Ron Paul. He sounds like libertarian, but what is he doing in Republican party? What is beck doing in Libertarian party? they should just switch...

To Ilkhan:

My interpretation of libertariansm? I agree with those principles here: http://www.lp.org/platform

To Liebe420:

yeah man, i know foxnews IS shit :)

To MedicineMan

libertarian, libretarian... who cares? I dont :) still learning your language, its gonna get better and better soon...
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Ron Paul ran in '88 as a libertarian but he has always really been a Republican.
In this country the heart of the Republican Party is Libertarian,
Libertarian party was basicly formed from disgruntled Republicans who left the GOP.
Before there was a libertarian Party in the US there was the Republicans.

If you watch the GOP these days you will notice the Libertarians and Neo-Cons duke it out,
Its gonna be one hell of a fight to.
Battle lines are getting drawn,
its a fight for the heart of the Republican party.

Bush royally screwed up the GOP.
But in a way it is a good thing.
It'll let us clean house.

Ron Paul ran Republican because the Libertarians can't get into the debates
and spend all their time and money just getting their names on the ballots.
Better to try to return the GOP to its roots.
 

medicineman

New Member
Ron Paul ran in '88 as a libertarian but he has always really been a Republican.
In this country the heart of the Republican Party is Libertarian,
Libertarian party was basicly formed from disgruntled Republicans who left the GOP.
Before there was a libertarian Party in the US there was the Republicans.

If you watch the GOP these days you will notice the Libertarians and Neo-Cons duke it out,
Its gonna be one hell of a fight to.
Battle lines are getting drawn,
its a fight for the heart of the Republican party.

Bush royally screwed up the GOP.
But in a way it is a good thing.
It'll let us clean house.

Ron Paul ran Republican because the Libertarians can't get into the debates
and spend all their time and money just getting their names on the ballots.
Better to try to return the GOP to its roots.
Good luck with that Ilk, The repukes better get their shit together fast or they'll be losing even more seats in congress. The American public has become much more aware since the last elections. Millions of people had their eyes opened. 60% want universal single payer health care and the repukes are adamantly opposed, that will not win many votes. Repukes voting anti-labor/union will not garner many votes. The workers are waking up. They are realizing that the repuke party is for corporations and bosses, free enterprise and no unions, no protection for workers while giving huge bonuses to the top managers. The repuke party has seen it's day and it is a party in disrepair and extinction, not a minute too soon I might add. The next big party will more than likely be the American socialist party, whoa, that's right, even more left than now~LOL~.
 

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
Oh I have no illusuions about the GOP as it sits.
They probably will lose seats in 2010
I don't really see this as a problem.
As most of the GOP is dead wood anyway.
They are more trouble then they are worth.

Right now the libertarians, like the dreaded candiru
Are swiming up the urethra of the GOP
to feed on the magled mass that was once thier party!
The libertarians will eat the GOP from the inside out.

Thats a fun image for you!
 

medicineman

New Member
Oh I have no illusuions about the GOP as it sits.
They probably will lose seats in 2010
I don't really see this as a problem.
As most of the GOP is dead wood anyway.
They are more trouble then they are worth.

Right now the libertarians, like the dreaded candiru
Are swiming up the urethra of the GOP
to feed on the magled mass that was once thier party!
The libertarians will eat the GOP from the inside out.

Thats a fun image for you!
Especially since the libertarians are no more than 15% of the voting public, that will force the remaining 85% to either go democrat or join the newly formed American socialist party. I havent made up my mind which one I'll go with, probably the socialists, as the democrats as they exist now, are just a mirror image of the repukes. Let's see, 15% VS 85%, I wonder the future of the libertarians. Looks like they are destined to go down in flames with their antiquated views. All you guys have is hope while the trend towards socialism marches on. Don't mistake my affinity for socialism for the old guard socialism of the past. There is a place where socialism meets capitalism, that's the place I'm looking for. Just think of it, employee owned corporations, regulated to be responsible to the people and the communities they exist in. Isn't that a novel Idea? In fact if we had that type of socialistic capitalism we wouldn't be in the mess we are today.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
Thanks for feedback fellow rollitupers :)

To TheBrutalTruth:

I moved here from Poland, a beautiful country that lays between hammer and a hard place (Germany and Russia :)) Moved couse my wifey got here a good job in science, really hardcore stuff. Im still looking for something to do but it seems hard to find anything. I wanna be wrong, but i guess my accent kills possibilities. I think about returning to somewhere in europe, prolly UK, I did well there for couple of years.
When the going gets tough the tough get going...

If all else fails I'd say take a gamble and try starting your own business.

Being your own boss is tough, but ultimately it is the most rewarding of all career paths, especially if you are successful.

But regardless of what you do, Good Luck.

To ViRedd:

If Beck is a conservative libertarian... Id say he's just plain conservative supporting republican party. Thats how i see it. No matter how he call himself. You re so right about Ron Paul. He sounds like libertarian, but what is he doing in Republican party? What is beck doing in Libertarian party? they should just switch...
(Not trying to Reply for Vi, but)

The problem with US Politicis is that it's all factions that are invisible

Pro-Abortion vs Pro-Life
Pro-Tax vs Anti-Tax

or

D E M O C R A T S
Socialists, Communists, Progressives, Federalists, et al.

vs

R E P U B L I C A N S
Libertarians, Capitalists, Conservatives, Anti-Federalists, et al.


So while a person can say that they are a "Conservative Libertarian" they are more likely to be Conservative with Libertarian Leanings, than a true Libertarian.

Just as a Federalist might agree with the plank of empowering the Federal Government and thus be a Democrat, while disagreeing with Abortion.

Or perhaps they'll think Abortion is okay and oppose more federal power.

So the stew is really mixed here and all the different factions are more or less aligned into the two super factions that dominate American Politics, the Democrats and the Republicans.



To Ilkhan:

My interpretation of libertariansm? I agree with those principles here: http://www.lp.org/platform
I only disagree with their idea of ridding a nation of its borders, a nation with out borders is not a nation.


To Liebe420:

yeah man, i know foxnews IS shit :)

To MedicineMan

libertarian, libretarian... who cares? I dont :) still learning your language, its gonna get better and better soon...
I don't have any responses to the last two comments.
 
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