Any info on suboxone clinics? Good or Bad

Huel Perkins said:

I read the entire thread after i posted, felt no need to change my post. It actually looks more like you didn't read my post before you replied to it lol. I acknowledged that used properly it helps a lot of people, just like when opiates are used properly they are great for relieving temporary pain.

Because you seemed to completely miss my point, i dislike suboxone due to its effects when its misused and abused. In my own personal experience it seems to be worse than than the drugs it was intended to treat people for when misused.

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i posted as you were posting. I also thought the dr immediately dismissed you mainly cuz he has a different view than you also. Bad vibe, no doubt.

Huel Perkins said:

I read the entire thread after i posted, felt no need to change my post. It actually looks more like you didn't read my post before you replied to it lol. I acknowledged that used properly it helps a lot of people, just like when opiates are used properly they are great for relieving temporary pain.

Because you seemed to completely miss my point, i dislike suboxone due to its effects when its misused and abused. In my own personal experience it seems to be worse than than the drugs it was intended to treat people for when misused.

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Fair enough, and you are correct with a half life of 32 hours vs methadone with 8-9 hours the addiction to suboxone is just as hard if not harder to shake. It has to do with the strategy employed with the suboxone. Short courses of therapy with rapid (4-6 month) weaning reduces the dependency on the suboxone and overrides the concern. We do see many doctors at the urging of the manufacturer putting people on maintenance therapy with the resulting dependency, and that is where you see the problem.

The problem you describe seems better explained by taking suboxone while other narcotics are still on board. Suboxone, like guns, are evil when misused or not supervised. Neither are inherently evil themselves.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience or know someone that did. I have many that had EXCELLENT results, and it seems I graduate a new patient every week. I expect good outcomes. I think people should also expect good outcomes- a positive attitude. What I put out in this thread is simply an outline of what I know is a successful strategy so folks can be proactive in their treatment.

Dr. Bob

Just say no to drugs!!!












Fuckin things just don't listen!!

still didn't completely get why Huel got sick "recreationally" lol. I'm not up on these things. snorted some oxy once and puked my guts out. I can't handle anything but Mary Jane n coffee. maybe shrooms or... lol

gladstoned said:

i posted as you were posting. I also thought the dr immediately dismissed you mainly cuz he has a different view than you also. Bad vibe, no doubt.

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I wasn't opposed so much to the point of view as the absolute black and white 'suboxone is evil'. To his credit, Huel confirmed my suspicion the sudden withdrawal due to the narcan was the cause of his symptoms, not the drug itself.

Overall I think we all make good points. I am going to point out again the fact he is correct about the addiction to suboxone issue, the key is to make sure that doesn't happen.

Dr. Bob

abe supercro said:

still didn't completely get why Huel got sick "recreationally" lol. I'm not up on these things. snorted some oxy once and puked my guts out. I can't handle anything but Mary Jane n coffee. maybe shrooms or... lol

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Opiates aren't for everyone. They are nasty, addictive little pills .... but if I ever found a strain of weed that exactly replicated an opiate high, I would grow the fuck out of that shit! The best high I've come across in my time on the planet!

Abe, Narcan is a narcotic antagonist. The net effect is that it suddenly reverses all narcotics in you. If you are addicted to narcotics, they are suddenly reversed, you immediately go into withdrawal. And you are sick as hell. I am sure that wasn't his intent, he just didn't know the different pharmacology of suboxone compared to other narcotics.

Dr. Bob

Stow, please tell me it's not that good. lol. Fortunately I have a weak constitution for anything heavy duty, - Bob thanks for explanation.

Dr. Bob said:

I wasn't opposed so much to the point of view as the absolute black and white 'suboxone is evil'. To his credit, Huel confirmed my suspicion the sudden withdrawal due to the narcan was the cause of his symptoms, not the drug itself.

Overall I think we all make good points. I am going to point out again the fact he is correct about the addiction to suboxone issue, the key is to make sure that doesn't happen.

Dr. Bob

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i know this is controversial. That's why I asked in a forum vs looking it up. You are an intelligent person, I think you could be able to make it look good or bad however you choose. You are a doctor.
Being a dr related to this I expect you to have a doctors view. Someone that has led a life of addiction and abuse may have a slightly different perspective than yours. Listening to both and putting it together is how I make judgements.

What a lot of folks don't understand is that I got into medical marijuana based on my work with addiction. Specifically narcotic addiction. It is a subject I've spent years working on and I've through through many different approaches. Obviously I'm rather biased to the one I came up with, I'll grant you that, but it is based on an 80% plus success rate so I might be on to something.

The other thing I'll be quick to point out is that sometimes I put things more forcefully than I should. What triggered this one was the blanket statement something I've found very helpful was 'evil'. Way too black and white for me, there are always variations, different approaches, and therapy is tailored to the patient. I can easily see someone just glancing through this thread coming away with a negative impression of a particular therapy to the point they wont consider it, even if it is their best option as explained by the one guiding them through their recovery. It is good to mention to pitfalls, so folks can look out for them, but although I like it, I don't insist it is the only option. Nor would I insist it was evil and not to be used. I don't like methadone, I don't agree with the strategy as a front line treatment, but can clearly see it has it's place and would never say it was evil.

Although I don't know specifically who Glad is, he apparently knows me and I am sure can vouche for the fact I really do put thought into my recommendations and they are based on a solid foundation. I take this very seriously and results speak for themselves.

Dr. Bob

I trust you. I think you come off rather defensive, but seeing you came here to defend your character on a very personal level, I have to say I understand. It also shows alot that you didn't just post a statement and take off. The amount of michigan people that read all the info here, but don't 'participate' is amazing.

I asked around about suboxine because I didn't know anything about it. This site is so much more valuable than it is given credit for. Of course there is a learning curve on who to trust, but the wealth of knowledge here is simply amazing. Jail and prison is actually effective drug treatment, I don't recommend it though. Do you have an opinion on the therapeutic benefits of actually growing cannabis? Can you share it if you do? Do you, or have you grown cannabis? Completely off subject, well not completely, but just curious.

good questions there at the end.

No I don't, nor have I ever used it. Take that as you wish. Either you can look at me as an outsider, or you can look at me as the best type of ally. One important factor is that those in authority, who also don't use marijuana, can relate to me and listen to me, and those that are in the MMJ community for the most part see me as someone with their interests at heart.

I got in to MMJ because I thought it would be helpful with the symptoms of narcotic withdrawal. Then I began to see folks coming off handfuls of vicodin. Then I saw the result of cannabis in Crohn's disease. The more I learned of it, the more I supported it. Then I began to develop standards for the certification process, standards that protected patients and were eventually taken up by the state.

Thank you for your understanding and compliment. I intend to assist the community in any way I can. I even put up a group for questions. I appreciate the response of the community to those that were coming here to cause dissent and attack my character. Once the truth came out, they were sent packing. That kind of nonsense can't stand up to common sense and the truth. Sorry about having to air old news once again, but many picked up on the inconsistencies of what they were saying, something not seen in some other boards.

Dr. Bob

One other thing to address the question you asked, tending plants of any kind is therapeutic in my opinion. There is something about working soil, creating a living work of art out of nothing seems to be a form of natural therapy in itself. To create something as useful as cannabis is even better.

Dr. Bob

You are pretty involved with medical marijuana. I don't think anyone can label you as an outsider. I try to learn about mj and depression. It is a serious ass-kicking common denominator with so many people including myself. Not just with marijuana smokers, but with people. Being a doctor I figured you could probably do some pretty good smoke reports. Take lab testing to a new level. lol.

lol, I'll see if I can get a grant...

You have to remember something about chronic pain. Young folks especially do not expect to have their lives invaded and limited by chronic pain. It is depressing. When depressed you feel pain more acutely.

That is one reason that improvement in depression and decrease in anxiety tends to help with pain management... hence many chronic pain patients are also treated with antidepressants.

Dr. Bob

in some cases the right mmj may suffice as a substitute for an anti-depressant, perhaps only in less severe depression cases.
longer term anti-depressant treatment must have it's possible physical or psychological side effects. have met a lot of ppl on anti-depressants these days.

That is my point it helps, even if only a little, and that helps to break the chronic pain cycle.

Dr. Bob

I do not want to take anti-depressants or any other pill. Not a fan of them in the least. I know many others that feel the same way. Mj helps. It helps a lot. I was gone yesterday and throughout the day, just kept getting more and more fucked up, till I could get home and relax.

Dr. do you have an office in Muskegon?
https://www.rollitup.org/michigan-patients/587070-muskegon-mi-how-can-i.html