Anxity/Panic rescue spray...

Hey guys and gals, just thought I would share my experiment with you all...So I will have about 8-10 oz of trim in a week or two, and this is my plan... First I will bake in a 200degree over for 15 min. I am going to be doing a freezer iso wash X2 of my trim. I will let it evaporate completely as normal to get my desired oil. I will then place that oil in a 4oz mini spray bottle (kinda like the spray bottles that nitro spray comes in) with 95% alcohol peppermint extract. This spray is going to be a medicine for my wife who suffers from anxiety and occ panic attacks. I am sure this stuff is gonna pack a huge punch, so based on the dose per spray, I may have to titrate up to a larger volume of extract to get the desired effect from 1-2 sprays. Opinions to this? My concern is: will the resultant extract dissovle efficiently in the 4oz. spray bottle, or do you think my volume will have to be increased? Meaning, will it surpase alcohol's saturation point for cannabinoids? Cheers

You may pass the saturation point if you use too much extract in your alcohol, as alcohol dissolves cannabinoids poorly. The first step you list is unnecessary - Dont use iso to extract, just use ethanol from the get go. Sine you want something super-concentrated, I'd avoid using alcohol to extract at all. Use limonene to extract instead. This citrus scented, food grade solvent is safe to consume and will dissolve a ridiculous amount of cannabinoids into solution (and no chlorophyll or tannins). You can either dissolve a lot of hash into a small amount of limonene, or you can extract a lot of cannabinoids by using a small amount of limonene and soaking a little bit of herb at a time, then straining and repeating with fresh herb until the desired amount of medication is in there. Limonene dissolves lipids at room temp lightning fast, so extraction time is 5 minutes per wash max. You can then take your limonene tincture and dissolve it into a larger amount of water/ethanol mix (vodka). I find a good ratio to be 1g hash/5g herb - 1oz limonene - 2oz vodka, and you can add some lecithin and/or some glycerine to help with mouthfeel and the BBB.

VladFromOG said:

You may pass the saturation point if you use too much extract in your alcohol, as alcohol dissolves cannabinoids poorly. The first step you list is unnecessary - Dont use iso to extract, just use ethanol from the get go. Sine you want something super-concentrated, I'd avoid using alcohol to extract at all. Use limonene to extract instead. This citrus scented, food grade solvent is safe to consume and will dissolve a ridiculous amount of cannabinoids into solution (and no chlorophyll or tannins). You can either dissolve a lot of hash into a small amount of limonene, or you can extract a lot of cannabinoids by using a small amount of limonene and soaking a little bit of herb at a time, then straining and repeating with fresh herb until the desired amount of medication is in there. Limonene dissolves lipids at room temp lightning fast, so extraction time is 5 minutes per wash max. You can then take your limonene tincture and dissolve it into a larger amount of water/ethanol mix (vodka). I find a good ratio to be 1g hash/5g herb - 1oz limonene - 2oz vodka, and you can add some lecithin and/or some glycerine to help with mouthfeel and the BBB.

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Thanks man... I got to d some looking into limonene... never heard of it in all my searching... many thanks! Anyone else? Cheers!

I would do a butane soak then winterize in etoh. You don't even have to evap after words. And yes ethanol holds a ridiculous amount of cannabinoids, it'll take em till its a sludge. You wouldn't need to come anywhere near that point for 1 spray to get you..and a little dash of everclear is always good

qwizoking said:

I would do a butane soak then winterize in etoh. You don't even have to evap after words. And yes ethanol holds a ridiculous amount of cannabinoids, it'll take em till its a sludge. You wouldn't need to come anywhere near that point for 1 spray to get you..and a little dash of everclear is always good

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Nice... I assumed it would be ok. I have to stay away from butae due to my location, and have a really hard time getting a hold of any speacialized stuff... That's why I want to use ISO... quick, cheap, and good results... Forgot to metion as well that I am using water cured trim, so there will be virtually no chlorophyll... Thanks a to guys!

OP - if you cant use butane ( I assume no place to evap or is regulated), you should try limonene or ethanol instead of iso. The reason I dislike iso is because its actually a fairly reactive substance, it oxides THC down to CBN very quickly when the two are in open air (in a vacuum with no O2 itd not be a problem). For example, I've taken pure white fluffy psychedelic high THC budder and dissolved in in iso, then evaped over a few minutes on a double boiler, and gotten nothing but dark brown, thin sleepy high CBN shatter... this happens whenever I've used iso, the cannabinoids all just oxidize down to useless, dark, sleepy CBN. Ethanol doesnt seem to have this problem, nor does limonene, but limonene has the added bonuses of being a natural component of pot, a liquid solvent at room temp, non toxic and food safe, and is selective for lipids. That said it smells strongly and should be evaped outdoors, so that may not be an option, but thats where everclear shines qwisoking - your suggestion of BHO into alcohol is solid, its what i find easiest for tinctures myself (but then I always already have bho laying about). I just wanted to note: if your "winterizing" of your bho is pulling out impurities during filtration, you may want to do a clean plate test on your butane. A clean plate test is where you discharge a canister into a glass dish and let it all evaporate. If theres any greasy residue, or any sulfurous smells, the butane is contaminated with industrial lubricants or mercaptans, respectively. The reason I think you should do this (other than the fact that everyone should do it with every new brand/batch), is that I've only ever pulled out impurities from winterizing on BHO made with impure butane (and even then it doesnt grab all the butanes impurities out) From my Vapor Volumes:

The Myth of Winterizing I cant believe I have to explain this, but a lot of folks have been popping up promoting this “winterizing” process, and its something that just doesnt make sense if youre using pure butane, but it starts to become clear if youre using impure butane. Let me make this very clear: Taking BHO and dissolving it in ETO95% or ISO99% and freezing the solution, then filtering said solution with filter paper before evaping again does not remove butane or make the extract purer or remove any “waxes”. The waxes and plant oils that are dissolved by butane dissolve even better in cold iso. Moreover, you've just added a liquid solvent into your oil, and it will now need to be purged and cured even longer than originally with just the butane to remove the stubborn alcohol solvent from your oil. “But I tried the winterizing process and got a ton of waxy residue after filtering the hash oil tincture, surely this means its removing heavy plant waxes?” you may be asking. I would like to present the following info if that is the case: I've performed the winterization on extracts I have made with pure iso-butane, and gotten zero particulate filtered out (no waxes etc). I have also winterized friends oils that were made with the same herb but with impure n-butane mixes that didnt pass the clean plate test (Vector, you scumbags I'm looking at you), and gotten a large quantity of wax left in the paper. The reason? Shitty brands like Vector 5x have heavy industrial oils and lubricants for your lighter in with the butane (10g per 12oz gas), which isnt pure isobutane but a mix of hexane, n-butane, and similar, which may dissolve heavier waxes than pure isobutane does. So depending upon your butane source, you could be using a less selective gas solvent mix that (if it isnt Colibri) likely has some heavy industrial oils in it that would definitely be filtered by winterizing. Please note that Winterizing is not necessary when using pure butane, and it doesnt pull out all the impurities from an extract that was made with impure butane.

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Lol I suggest you do a lot more research......I'm actually fairly perplexed how you come to such conclusions..just like your first post..its just plain wrong.......

I rather plainly stated the research, experience, and logic that led to these conclusions, though your experience may vary and you are certainly entitled to your own interpretation about the data my experiments have yielded... but if I may, I'd posit the queries: what brand butane do you use, and have you clean plate tested it for purity? If the answer to the former question is anything other than lab grade, certified isobutane and should the answer to the latter question be "no", I would ever so kindly suggest that you perform a clean plate test on whatever butane you use, just for your own assurances that your extract is not being contaminated. As I said, in my experiences, winterizing bho made with pure isobutane yields no filtrate, whereas winterizing BHO made from the same weed but extracted with Vector or other contaminated gas blends yields filtrate, about half as much filtrate in weight as there are industrial non-evaporating contaminates in the shitty butane. This is very strong evidence, given that the only variable was the use of pure vs impure butane (same herb, same method), that the stuff being filtered out was only present due to the butane. The shitty butane was both a mix of other gases, it may have pulled some waxes butane normally wouldnt, and it is also heavily contaminated with industrial lubricating oils, which may be what is being filtered out (the common industrial lubricants arent very eto soluable and so would be pulled during winterizing). Make of that what you will, but however you interpret that, its a good idea to test your butane.

I'm not trying to be mean. Its basic chemistry, a non polar solvent pulls soluble non polar compounds. Plant waxes and lipids being one of those. When winterizing you redissolve in a polar solvent iso will work but etoh is best these non polar waxes then precipitate out... and I don't use butane, I generally look down on butane extractions, hexane is far superior in my opinion and yes I only use reagent grade..I'm familiar with chemistry and know what you've stated is false

I'm not trying to be mean either . I understand your looking down on butane, most commercially available butane simply isnt, lol, and the ones marketed as "pure" are the ones least likely to be so... Hexane works well (the few times I've used it, the toxicity requires a good ventilation/reclaim setup). I use butane for thrift, speed and bc I can be assured I can get pure, if I couldnt I would use another solvent. I believe I know where the confusion lays - butane is a non polar solvent its true. But so is iso, limonene, hexane, and ethanol (which is both a polar/non-polar solvent).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isopropyl_alcohol Lipids, like cannabinoids and waxy plant oils, are non polar, and only dissolve in non polar solvents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-polar This is why you cant use a polar solvent like water to extract cannabinoids. If you were removing all non polar compounds by winterizing, you would be left without any actives at all! So something else must be happening - when you winterize bho made with impure butane, its plausible that the heavier, harder to dissolve lipids used as industrial lube may not be as soluble in cold etoh, and so precipitate out. This is supported by my experiences in winterizing pure vs impure butane extracts and getting no vs some filtrate. I have not winterized hexane extracts, though I would note that my hexane extracts tested at 15% less cannabinoid content than my butane. With your hexane extract, I have no way of knowing, but a clean plate test would also work to prove its purity and assure that nothing similar is going on. IDK your brand, but sigma lists their reagent grade as being equal to or greater than 95% pure, which is not great, and leaves plenty of room for other solvents and contaminants. Heck, the dirtiest, nastiest butane Ive tested was about 95% pure (5g contaminates for every 100g solvent), and I'd never vape or smoke something made with that, just to give you an idea of how much room for icky there is in reagent grade.

I have a feeling it would take me all day to set you straight...
No further comments.....lol

Thanks everyone! If I can find limonene somewhere and the cost is cheap, I will look into it... I can't get over 151 proof here, so I was just thinking ISO would work good... I really appreciate the input guys!!!

From the wiki on iso: "Isopropyl alcohol dissolves a wide range of non-polar compounds." Invalidates your claim of "When winterizing you redissolve in a polar solvent iso will work but etoh is best these non polar waxes then precipitate out." So come now, qwiso, theres no need to "set me straight"- you based your understanding of the process around the mistaken assumptions that iso was polar (and wouldnt dissolve non polar compounds) and that cannabinoids would dissolve in iso/eto but other lipids of similar density and charge would not. I provided links showing that iso and similar solvents are non polar (actually some are polar but protic, and that plus the OH functional group in alcohols allows for dissolving of non-polar compounds, see the wiki links I provided for full details) and that lipids like cannabinoids are as well (thats why the former can dissolve the latter), and reasonably pointed out that if you were correct and iso was indeed polar and all non polar compounds precipitated, then the cannabinoids would have to be removed as well, as lipids are nonpolar. No need to try and save face with snark; you only got a bit mixed up about what compounds are polar and non polar, just take your newfound knowledge and test your solvent, bc reagent grade is far from pure and you shouldnt be pulling anything from winterizing if youve a pure solvent, and think twice next time you hear about a purification process that uses two solvents with essentially the same solubility profile to try and isolate an impurity that is dissolved by both. :* OP - limonene is about ten a quart on ama and adds a great lemon orange taste to tinctures, provided you water it down (it holds much more in solution than iso, eto, or anything but hexane, butane, or co2, and so can withstand being watered down a bit), or you can dry out 151 clear vodka by adding epsom salts that have been oven roasted on 250 for two-4 hours. The epsom salts absorb water but not ethanol, allowing you to filter off the epsom crystals and leaving pure liquid ethanol. you can reuse the epsom salts by drying again in oven on low temp. Vodka extract tastes great, esp from water cured low chloro trim, the ethanol really picks up the lighter terpenes and essential oils that contribute to flavor, Iso (which can be made 100% pure in the same manner) doesnt have as nice a taste to me, and has always oxidized my cannabinoids super fast. Enjoy your spray, whatever path you choose. Theres a thousand ways to concentrate pot and for oral consumption the only right way is the way that tastes best

Seriously as mentioned your arguing basic chemistry with someone who does this type of thing for a living...
eee.uci.edu d01MANmiscibility.pdf
Solvent.miscibility.pdf www.erowid.org. You gotta Google the pdf's. But you may learn something

I suggest you read up ALOT....I'll help Google solvent miscibility polarity index

And you realize that besides the fact I'm extremely stubborn and make pharmaceuticals for a living. I read chemistry talk all day long, your not going to prove anything to me with wiki articles and your personal theories. I know what I'm doing here. And I know exactly what I'm talking about....I think its strange you seem to know big words like you've been reading about them but didn't take it in or correctly. Just like the etoh not being able to hold cannabinoids ect..

I'm sorry but most everything you've stated is wrong. Theoretically and in practice its obvious leading me to believe you've only ever read about this stuff

well now we've devolved to what seems to be a reoccuring argument for me around here: I make statement A, present my Experiences B and provide links to research C that all back up my claim A. Then some netizen comes along, tells me A isnt so because they know better, then proceeds to ignore experiences B and not even look at C, all because its so *terrible* to be wrong (and to be honest thinking that a substance like iso or eto that is used to dissolved the lipids from a plant could be used in the exact same matter to isolate out one set of lipids that is as dense and soluable as the cannabinoids which happen to be there as well, is, well, a serious lapse in logic) The papers you list all support what Ive been saying to you. Reread them, you are misunderstanding. Thats great that you make "pharmaceuticals". I have a sneaking suspicion you mean you make hash for dispensaries, given that you use hexane extracts (hexane being a toxic, less than ideal solvent - if you had much experience in the pharmaceutical industry you'd know much the better tricks for extracting lipids from plants used by the pharmaceutical industry, like CO2 and solvent free - which are detailed in my Vapor Volumes btw if you want to learn them), but if you want start bringing work into this, my first internship with a multinational pharmaceutical company was as soon as I got my bachelors over a decade ago, followed by a proper career after my masters with one of the big guys. My work was primarily isolating novel plant compounds from exotic species in order to study them (after isolation I'd pass it down to the guys for lab analysis/pharmacore modeling and eventually testing if the compound was predicted to have interesting pharmacology) I'm notoriously secretive, partly bc I doubt my employers who are based in a non mmj state would like me giving random internet stoners tips on making higher quality isolates, so forgive me for not mentioning identifying details, but since apparently this argument has become a silly pissing match instead of a proper point by point analysis of why we think one process is one way vs another (which is what I was doing), I thought I should mention that this is exactly my area of expertise, one that has made me moderately wealthy and been the majority of my day to day life for over 10 years. So yeah, youre getting added to the ignore list, merely because when you have a silly pissing contest, everyone gets covered in piss, and I've no desire to sit here while we piss on each other. Just do yourself and anyone else who may be smoking your extracts a favor - do a clean plate test. As I've said, in my experience, winterizing only pulls out anything when done on extracts made with impure solvent. That right there is a good reason for you to just try and test your solvent. Theres no harm in it, after all, costs nothing and doesnt waste herb. Or you could have your extract checked for oleamide and stearamide, two common contaminates in industrial solvents when you have your extract labbed, or even better you could lab the filtrate you get from winterizing, this would pinpoint exactly what it is your pulling out (if you really want to be thorough, myself I only lab new strains, the fees add up quickly otherwise, but if you test your solvent and grow your own you can be sure of purity). Anyway, good luck to you, I shant be replying to or even seeing your posts anymore, so you've got the last word Anyone who wants to learn can easily do so with the info presented in this thread and others, its all been clearly laid out (a number of times now lol)

No your completely wrong in every way your logic doesn't even almost make sense.. solubility is effected by temp and polarity and intermolecular forces. I told you to look at solvent miscibility polarity index. It lists hexane as 0.0 etoh at 5.2... what that means is etoh dissolves the fats oils and cannabinoids everything for the most part when hot. We then drop the temp to precipitate. Similar to a cold water extraction to remove tylenol.(using water) Which is 9 on that same scale, does that mean water isn't a polar solvent? Just acetic acid at 11? Lol no........

Lets try and break this down

"You may pass the saturation point if you use too much extract in your alcohol, as alcohol dissolves cannabinoids poorly."
That's completely wrong, etoh will hold in solution till its a sludge like any solvent, you would never reach its saturation point(and its higher)

Ethanol's miscibility with water contrasts with the immiscibility of longer-chain alcohols (five or more carbon atoms), whose water miscibility decreases sharply as the number of carbons increases. (One reason hexane better than butane) The miscibility of ethanol with alkanes is limited to alkanes up to undecane, mixtures with dodecane and higher alkanes show a miscibility gap below a certain temperature (about 13 °C for dodecane ). The miscibility gap tends to get wider with higher alkanes and the temperature for complete miscibility increases....now why is iso and etoh and water polar? Why are the boiling temps so different between butane and iso when their molecular weights are so similar? The polar oh hydroxyl bond, the strongest imf is hydrogen bonding


"Use limonene to extract instead. This citrus scented,food grade solvent is safe to consume and will dissolve a ridiculous amount of cannabinoids into solution (and no chlorophyll or tannins)" limomene has a polarity index of 3.7. Right in the middle basically not making it a good extract. To do a complete an efficient extraction you have to filter both sides of the equation...when doing an a/b extract if you just did a or just b likely you'll end up with a sludge and it still has the impurities from the other side. With weed we decided a polar/non polar wash works best and efficiently..and like butane it still pulls chlorophyll and tannins. Because it is more polar


"Limonene dissolves lipids at room temp lightning fast" "a liquid solvent at room temp, non toxic and food safe, and is selective for lipids."
Youve said this multiple times yet for some reason you believe a non polar solvent like butane and limonene don't need to be winterized..yet they pull fats
"As I said, in my experiences,winterizing bho made with pure isobutane yields no filtrate," lol

"and it is also heavily contaminated with industrial lubricating oils, which may be what is being filtered out (the common industrial lubricants arent very eto soluable and so would be pulled during winterizing). Make of that what you will, but however you interpret that, its agood idea to test your butane." Lol you contradict yourself often. Considering they are soluble in etoh how are they what's being filtered. Fadedawg actually tested this recently

"The reason I dislike iso is because its actually a fairly reactive substance, it oxides THC down to CBN very quickly when the two are in open air (in a vacuum with no O2 its not be a problem). For example, I've taken pure white fluffy psychedelic high THC budder and dissolved in in iso, then evapedover afew minutes on a double boiler, and gotten nothing but dark brown, thin sleepy high CBN shatter... this happens whenever I've used iso, the cannabinoids all just oxidize down to useless, dark, sleepy CBN. Ethanol doesnt seem to have this problem, nor does limonene,"

Iso is not "fairly reactive" and its less so than limonene. Chloroform on the other hand does break it down. Degredation isn't resulting from thc in solution somehow oxidising with the air its from the slight acidity and harshness of the solvent

The reason you got dark sleepy shatter is because iso removed some of the waxes (creating shatter) you preceded to boil solvent off a heat sensitive chemical..I don't decarb or evap with heat. U can get clear ice shatter using iso

"Hexane works well (the few times I've used it, the toxicity requires a good ventilation/reclaim setup). Lol hexane is the safest to use, that's why we use it. You obviously don't know what reagent grade means. That means its suitable to use in chemical reactions sect that it is completely pure. Mine is greater than 99.5% pure the remainder being inert usually water pulled from the air.

"just to give you an idea of how much room for icky there is in reagent grade." Lol there is none that's the definition of reagent grade


All quotes are you... I've attempted to point out how wrong you are. Hopefully you listen or the very least do some reading.. no I don't make hash for a dispensary I'm in Austin tx. And I wouldn't use co2 or any of these processes in my line of work..I create and mix unstable pharmaceuticals, nuclear pharmacy as an example, For chemo patients


I know I missed a lot especially on page 2 but as I mentioned it would take all day and I just don't have the time...

Since you said you wouldn't reply......your still more than welcome to pm me if you want some chemistry help