Another Newbie Question: Is it OK to make up a weeks worth of water with nutes?

Hi all,

I was wondering if it's ok for me to make a 6 gallon bucket of water+nutes in advance to be used through out the week? I have a couple large buckets from when I used to brew beer. I was thinking I could do this:

Res change:
clean and inspect res to eliminate foreign material that could mess with pH
Make new batch of pH'd water with nutes and add to res.
Re-assemble res and turn everything on.


Additional Bucket:
clean bucket to makes sure no nasties are in there
add 6 gallons of water
pH water to 5.5 (tap water is ~7.0-7.25) using GH pH down powder
Add nutes. Using GH flora (still in veg)
use half dose of base setting for veg (2.5 ml/gal of each flavor) since I've had some nute burn recently and trying to find the sweet spot
Check ppm of mixture for reference against usage.

Store in basement,covered, next to grow cabinet, where it's ~65 degrees


Use:
Check res daily for pH and PPM along with water usage
If water is low, add mixture from bucket until to proper level
Check and adjust if needed.


Additional Considerations:
Have a second, pre-made bucket of pH'd-only water in case plants don't need more nutes.


My thought was using this method I could always have a consistent nute level in the res all the time. Previously, I would manage water usage and nutes separately. To me, this seems easier AND provides the plants with a consistent level of nutes all the time, rather than having huge swings if I fed only onces a week. I'm trying to use the "less is more" concept actually. At the res change, I'm using half of what GH recommends and I figured that by topping off with light nutes and water, they would be getting a consistent light dose. If I don't use the entire 6 gallons, then I plan on just topping it off with pH'd water and using that (which will be even lighter), then remake my half dose 6 gallon bucket again.

Originally I was using the SH packets that came with my kit, and I added 1/4 packet everyday for 4 days, then the last 3 days just regular water. Even with this method, I still saw my tips get burned, which I assumed was from nutrient burn and over feeding. It was also a PITA to mix daily, so when I switched to GH flora, it seemed like it would be just as easy to mix in batches.

I'm still trying to find the sweet spot, and am trying to figure it out using a ppm meter and watching the water levels. What would be a "normal" change in ppm if your plants are drinking and eating properly? Is this quantifiable, or does it vary based on many factors?

Thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

If you keep it in the fridge it will be better. Why are u phing the water before u add nutes and just plain water being phed? The nutes will change the ph. Always water+nutes+additives then adjust ph.

Thanks SS. With the SH powdered nutes, the directions said to pH the water prior to adding the nutes. I assumed that the nutes are always pH balanced, so adding to pH water either didn't matter, or was still the preferred way. I did check the pH at the end of the mixture as well, and it stayed at the same level as it was prior to adding the nutes. It does make sense to adjust the pH at the end, so I'll start doing that.

As for the concept of always adding a light dose when it's time to replenish, does that makes sense? or should I just skip the nutes and just add pH'd water?

Thanks

In my dwc buckets i start with 5gal and when it gets down to around 1-1/2gal i change it. I never add back to any of my systems..

Interesting. Does that mean you adjust your pH directly into the bucket? I've been mixing outside the res using a small bottle with water and the pH down powder. I didn't want to run the chance that the powder didn't dissolve completely and just build up on the bottom of the res.

Yes, i do, with no problems. Thats why u should have liquid ph adjusters. Are u using dry nutes or liquid nutes? because in hydro liquid is all u want to put in the res except for maybe bennies.

You typically shouldn't have to correct the PH of any water that your adding to an existing system once you get the PH to your desired level in your system. PH down doesn't for the most part "evaporate" and plants take very little in so it basically sits in your rez. I usually put my PH at 6.5 in a system that holds 6.5 gallons and let it work it's way down to 5 gallons, now at this point the PH level is around 5.7, to go back up to 6.5 all I do is add back in 1.5 gallons of plain non PH adjusted tap water. This is how I control my PH drift with precision and efficiency.

So in a nutshell unless your premixing for a complete rez change you only need to premix the nutes and fine tune the PH level after.

Im sorry but if your nut mix is dialed in the ph should stay steady. I can go a week or more with ph staying within .2+- let the plants use the nutes mix, adding back a gallon every day just throws the elemental mix off because plants take different amounts of different elements at different times leaving behind what they dont need plus waste products.

Why are you adding nutes in everyday? You will burn your plants.

Superstoner, I've been using liquid nutes (GH flora) for the past 3 weeks. I was using the SH packets but it never seemed to totally dissolve regardless of how much mixing I did. I'm currently using GH pH down powder, but I plan on switching to liquid once that has been used up.

For whatever reason, I need to adjust my pH daily. I wish my system was as stable as yours and BlackMesa's. I did have a bout with root rot early on, so I may still be battling that. I've gotten into the habit of completely cleaning the res when I change the water at the end of the week. I'm just nervous that there is still some left over funk from that root rot. It seems that many people have the same issue as I do, as well as your example. I don't know enough if the fact that I have city water which is pretty hard, has anything to do with it.

Twistedwords, the intent of adding nutes everyday was to give a stable nute environment. I have no idea if it's a good strategy or a bad one, which is why I asked the question. The concept was that by adding a light mixture of nutes, it just keep the tank nute level constant. It's no higher than at res change, which was already a half dose. If you only add nutes at res changes, then your nute level would be the highest just after the change, and would diminish over time. You'd exptect to see nute burn at the peak, or when you just changed the water. What I'm wondering about, is if it's ok to lighted the mixture, but whenever you add water to replenish what was drank, you had the same low mix water. So, instead of having a real high level on day 1 after res change, and almost none at the end of the week you'd have a consistent nute level throughout the week, as long as it's low enough not that make nute burn.

Thanks for you response everyone.

Try using a beneficial like greatwhite or.pondzyme.

It is completely fine to add nutes when you need to to keep a certain PPM level but ONLY if your at a low level of PPM to begin with and secondly you change the rez in at least 2 weeks! I have been doing this forever and usually have perfect crazy fast growth and perfect plant health. The key here though is to keep your PPM level low because in a DWC system much less are needed because of the fact the roots are completely submerged in nutes 24/7.

I never ever go above 300 PPM and usually stay around 250 PPM in bloom and come away with 1.25 - 1.5 gram per watt each and every time.

As far as keeping a PH stable goes, it usually takes 100 PPM or more of nutes to keep a stable PH level but regardless of how stable your PH level is when you loose water the PH will drop. Less water with the same amount of PH down (it doesn't leave with the lost water) = more acid to water ratio. You can see this for yourself by taking a cup of water out of your system and allowing it to evaporate down then test it to see the drop.

Sorry if I got off track, just wanted to explain a little.

hansenke said:

Superstoner, I've been using liquid nutes (GH flora) for the past 3 weeks. I was using the SH packets but it never seemed to totally dissolve regardless of how much mixing I did. I'm currently using GH pH down powder, but I plan on switching to liquid once that has been used up.

For whatever reason, I need to adjust my pH daily. I wish my system was as stable as yours and BlackMesa's. I did have a bout with root rot early on, so I may still be battling that. I've gotten into the habit of completely cleaning the res when I change the water at the end of the week. I'm just nervous that there is still some left over funk from that root rot. It seems that many people have the same issue as I do, as well as your example. I don't know enough if the fact that I have city water which is pretty hard, has anything to do with it.

Twistedwords, the intent of adding nutes everyday was to give a stable nute environment. I have no idea if it's a good strategy or a bad one, which is why I asked the question. The concept was that by adding a light mixture of nutes, it just keep the tank nute level constant. It's no higher than at res change, which was already a half dose. If you only add nutes at res changes, then your nute level would be the highest just after the change, and would diminish over time. You'd exptect to see nute burn at the peak, or when you just changed the water. What I'm wondering about, is if it's ok to lighted the mixture, but whenever you add water to replenish what was drank, you had the same low mix water. So, instead of having a real high level on day 1 after res change, and almost none at the end of the week you'd have a consistent nute level throughout the week, as long as it's low enough not that make nute burn.

Thanks for you response everyone.

Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that an inconsistent PH level is in no way a negative thing and to swing from 5.2 - 7.0 is a healthy thing. I'm curious as to what is exactly happening though? Are you having to add PH down each day because it will rise back up or is it something else? Also I see you say that your tap water is PH 7 straight from the tap, you should check to make sure your meter isn't off as PH 7 is a little low for most cities.

I use the same nutes so if you want I can write up the perfect problem free/maximum growth nute schedule for DWC.

Thanks BlackMesa.

I really appreciate the time you've taken to respond. I do adjust my tank daily due to it rising back up to the 7.0 range. I adjust it when I see that it is that high, so I don't know how high it might go. When I adjust, I bring it down between 5.0 and 5.5. I've stopped worrying about getting a perfect pH since I know it's just going to rise and that variation is helpful.

I just took some measurements of my tap water:

414 ppm- I just calibrated the meter before I took this: 997 using a 1000 ppm solution
7-7.25 pH - I'm using test strips, so I could be slightly off.

I also took some measurements of the 6 gallon nute tank, which has been sitting for 4 days:

1014 ppm
5.0 pH - When I this up, I pH'd the water first, then added a 1/2 dose of the GH Flora, which equated to 15ml (1 tsp) of each of the 3 flavors. Note: I haven't used this solution since I posted this thread. I've only used regular tap water when adding pH down to dilute it prior to adding it to my tank.

And now for the confusing part.. I took res measurements:

2012 ppm (!!!!) Yesterday it was 1800, the day before was 1400.
5.5 pH. I adjusted pH prior to taking the ppm measurements.

So, ppm has steadily increased over the last 4 days, yet the water level is the same. Almost no change in water level, since it does get about 1/2 pint of water each day when I adjust pH.

I added some aquaShield, about 2 tbs, yesterday, so that could have contributed to the increase of ppm. What's interesting is that I haven't added more nutes since the res change, yet the water level hasn't changed. What else could be impacting my ppm? With increasing ppm, I don't plant on adding more nutes.

Since the beginning, I've changed res water weekly. Tomorrow, I'll change it again, along with cleaning the res, pump and hoses. I really don't understand what is happening. The plant hasn't been growing that much, but it looks decent. It seems to be focusing on growing new branches, with new leaves rather than growing up. The plant is rather short, but with its nodes packed close together. There is some burning on the leaves, but that was from a previous mistake which happened about 2 weeks ago.

any thoughts?

If your ppms are going UP --> pH should DROP
This means that the plant is using more water than nutrients. As it drinks water, there is less
water vs. dissolved nutrients --> IE PPM goes up.

You could dial back the nutes next swap. It seems your plants don't want to feed that heavily.
I have never found a need to go above 1800 ppms in hydro, and even then that's only in
mid bloom when they start fattening up.

I would consider getting a PH meter because strips can be off a full 1 point, I'm guessing your PH is actually around or very close to 8. If you add alot of PH down each day that can certainly raise the PPM levels and as LivingCanvas has mentioned, a drop in water = an increase in PPM levels but if that water is not going down then it is the aqushild and or PH down.

I did a few experiments back in the day regarding PH down and PPM, and what I found is that the more acid you add the bigger PPM number, You could take a cup of water and drop it to ph 4.0 then take a PPM reading to see this for your self. Are you using GH PH down or some other kind?

Also what are the exact PPM levels of nutes your using? it looks to me like your using 191 PPM plus your tap so you technically should be at 600 so if your water really is PH 8.0 then this could explain everything. Borrow or buy a cheap ph pen asap to confirm, Amazons pretty cheap but local would give you an instant answer. Hope that helps

Also don't ever EVER bother to use anything GH says regarding feeding because it does not apply to DWC and regardless if you cut it in half, you need much, much lower levels so what stage are your plants at, and how old etc... I'm guessing since your using equl parts that they are young seedlings or your about to transition, either way your high.

You never go over 300ppm?? I understand the UC/RDWC is supposed to reduce nutrient
requirements and increase efficiency, but with DWC/DIY Waterfarm setups I've done I've run
up to 1250 PPM and done quite well.

I am chasing over 1GPW still and would be curious to hear your ideas on how to run things.

Plants roots give off EXUDATES. These are originally designed to attract micro organisms
to the root zone helping the plants uptake more food. This is not the same in hydro, but
those exudates go into the solution, thus increasing ppm and lowering pH. Dump your solution
and get ppm below 1000.

PH down will also increase PPM. It's potassium hydroxide. If your pH is 8 in hydro, you're
going to have some issues. Dump it already. Start over on the nutes. I would HIGHLY HIGHLY
recommend using RO water. That way when you top off with fresh water, it's only water.

Tap water may be "safe" to drink, but it's not really the best water. Can you use tap? Yes. Will it
be a pain in the ass? Probably. Hell, I used to joke about how my plants drank better water than me.

Now I run RO water for myself and my fiance to drink. (It's the only method that removes flouride)

LivingCanvas said:

You never go over 300ppm?? I understand the UC/RDWC is supposed to reduce nutrient
requirements and increase efficiency, but with DWC/DIY Waterfarm setups I've done I've run
up to 1250 PPM and done quite well.

I am chasing over 1GPW still and would be curious to hear your ideas on how to run things.

Click to expand...

My record so far is 1.45 GPW with at least 1 GPW each and ever time all while never going over 300 PPM's. And if I do go over 300 PPM I get some burnt tips each and every time so I now stay at 250 PPM tops (keep in mind this is in addition to my 185 PPM tap water).

Now there may be something to my grows that causes this exception and thats using LED panels which I use 2 of. I use CFL to veg then switch to LED at 12/12. I guess I would have to use pure CFL the entire time to rule out that LED's are causing me to use much less nutes. But I will assure you that my plants grow insanely fast, have dense buds, and the buds have decent size all with 250 PPM of nutes. I should alo add that I keep my desired PPM level consistant so say every other day if the PPM level drops by 25 - 50 then I will add back 25 - 50 PPM in the corect ratio for the current stage.

Back on subject, I think that his PH strips are off by 1 which is causing the bump in PH levels if he adjusts all the time to PH 5. If he's actualy adjusting to PH 4 than this is it. I just did a test a few hours ago taking a 1 gallon jug with 185 PPM tap water and adding 75 PPM of butes then PHing to 6 that resulted in a final PPM count of 378, The result was 118 too many PPM's. Now for some reason after things stabilize after a few days the PH down will not rack up any extra PPM's. I'm not sure on the chemistry of why this is.

hansenke, I would drain and redo your setup to PH 6.3-6.5 and see where it drifts each day. It's worth the trouble just in case your PH is off.

Look at all the posts on this site that concern problems using ro water. Never had a single problem with city tap.