America is in love with Barack Obama

I know where you guys are coming from but I think he is what the country and the world needs right now. The last 8 years were a nightmare for all of our freedoms allong with everything else. I'm from Germany originaly, moved to the states in '89, and I have to tell you the speach he gave resonated on almost all layers inside me, I felt proud to be an American, and I'm not even one,lol.

ViRedd said:

I have two nieces who home school their children ... and I have a friend who does so as well.

None of my kids went to government schools, nor did any of my grand kids. This is one of my proudest achievements.

Vi

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Good for you. I wait for the day I will be able to say the same.

unity said:

The last 8 years were a nightmare for all of our freedoms allong with everything else.

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For the past few years the Democratic Congress passed all those bills.. and Obama just voted for the FISA bill.. his 'change' is bullshit. Being a good speaker doesn't make you honest, that makes you an even better bullshitter.

fdd2blk said:

so my kid is bad?

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LOL, no FDD. Your kid isn't bad.. my 3 younger brothers are all in public school as well, just be fully aware of what he is being taught. Everyone is free to educate their child how they choose- I just personally wouldn't put my children in public schooling..

i public school my kid but it doesn't stop there. he is taught just as much at home as well. too many parents rely on schools to handle everything for them. some things need to be taught at home.

unity said:

I know where you guys are coming from but I think he is what the country and the world needs right now. The last 8 years were a nightmare for all of our freedoms allong with everything else. I'm from Germany originaly, moved to the states in '89, and I have to tell you the speach he gave resonated on almost all layers inside me, I felt proud to be an American, and I'm not even one,lol.

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Well, if you're from Germany, then you should be able to see right through O'Bama. If you remember, when he gave his speech in Berlin, one of the things he said was: "The individual must sacrifice for the good of society." This isn't to far removed from another man who spoke those words from the very same place. The only difference was, the words went like this: "The individual must sacrifice for the good of the State." His name was Adolph Hitler, and that philosophy caused the murder of millions at the hands of the Divine State.

Learn your history.

Vi

When Obama says that the individual must sacrifice for the good of society, he's basically saying take some fucking responsibility for yourself. Instead of knocking up an urban girl and then bailing, stay around and be a father. Instead of constantly thinking only of yourself, take the time to think of others too, particularly those less fortunate. (Same thing Jesus taught, actually - help the weak and the poor when possible.)

I rather like the personal responsibility message that he pushes. That is, in fact, how I have always lived my life. Don't count on the government or help from others, take personal responsibility for your own life. That's a great message. What's different is hearing it coming from the mouth of a Democrat. I didn't think I'd ever see a Democrat so much like me in terms of being such a big proponent of personal responsibility. That's just awesome.

Bongulator said:

When Obama says that the individual must sacrifice for the good of society, he's basically saying take some fucking responsibility for yourself. Instead of knocking up an urban girl and then bailing, stay around and be a father. Instead of constantly thinking only of yourself, take the time to think of others too, particularly those less fortunate. (Same thing Jesus taught, actually - help the weak and the poor when possible.)

I rather like the personal responsibility message that he pushes. That is, in fact, how I have always lived my life. Don't count on the government or help from others, take personal responsibility for your own life. That's a great message. What's different is hearing it coming from the mouth of a Democrat. I didn't think I'd ever see a Democrat so much like me in terms of being such a big proponent of personal responsibility. That's just awesome.

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Right on brother, exactly!

Bongulator said:

When Obama says that the individual must sacrifice for the good of society, he's basically saying take some fucking responsibility for yourself. Instead of knocking up an urban girl and then bailing, stay around and be a father. Instead of constantly thinking only of yourself, take the time to think of others too, particularly those less fortunate. (Same thing Jesus taught, actually - help the weak and the poor when possible.)

I rather like the personal responsibility message that he pushes. That is, in fact, how I have always lived my life. Don't count on the government or help from others, take personal responsibility for your own life. That's a great message. What's different is hearing it coming from the mouth of a Democrat. I didn't think I'd ever see a Democrat so much like me in terms of being such a big proponent of personal responsibility. That's just awesome.

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medicineman said:

Right on brother, exactly!

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A grim vision of the future in the Obamanation.

Bongulator said:

When Obama says that the individual must sacrifice for the good of society, he's basically saying take some fucking responsibility for yourself. Instead of knocking up an urban girl and then bailing, stay around and be a father. Instead of constantly thinking only of yourself, take the time to think of others too, particularly those less fortunate. (Same thing Jesus taught, actually - help the weak and the poor when possible.)

I rather like the personal responsibility message that he pushes. That is, in fact, how I have always lived my life. Don't count on the government or help from others, take personal responsibility for your own life. That's a great message. What's different is hearing it coming from the mouth of a Democrat. I didn't think I'd ever see a Democrat so much like me in terms of being such a big proponent of personal responsibility. That's just awesome.

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If only you were right. But, I'm afraid you are not. O'Bama has the second most liberal voting record in the senate. He is an advocate of wealth redistribution. The old adage that "you can judge a man by the friends he keeps" holds true for O'Bama as well. The man is a Marxist.

Vi

Bongulator said:

When Obama says that the individual must sacrifice for the good of society, he's basically saying take some fucking responsibility for yourself. Instead of knocking up an urban girl and then bailing, stay around and be a father. Instead of constantly thinking only of yourself, take the time to think of others too, particularly those less fortunate. (Same thing Jesus taught, actually - help the weak and the poor when possible.)

I rather like the personal responsibility message that he pushes. That is, in fact, how I have always lived my life. Don't count on the government or help from others, take personal responsibility for your own life. That's a great message. What's different is hearing it coming from the mouth of a Democrat. I didn't think I'd ever see a Democrat so much like me in terms of being such a big proponent of personal responsibility. That's just awesome.

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So what have you personally done to help the weak, poor, and/or less fortunate?

Well, personally, I give pot for free to cancer victims. I donate a fair sum each year to a fairly lengthy list of charities (I'd guess around a grand or two per year, although since I choose not to declare those on my taxes, I don't really have a need to keep absolute track). I do not take from my government what I can do without, thus leaving all those resources available to those who do need the help. There were times when I was unemployed and damn near starving, and I still refused to accept unemployment or food stamps or welfare, so that when those who had gone past 'near' starvation into real starvation would have those resources available to them. (Just because you *can* accept help from the government doesn't necessarily mean you *should*, or at least that's been how I've lived my life.)

I have done some speeches for kids in juvenile detention, off and on, to try to inspire them to achieve and make something of themselves. When I do that, I stay the night, and sleep in a cell just like they do. (I guess I'm one of the 'success stories', so the administration there gives me some leeway to be less than conventional.)

Mostly, I just donate bucks to charities. You'd *never* confuse me for someone rich. I'm solidly middle-class (and I don't mean $3 million/year McCain middle class either). But I chose not to have children, I'm younger than my significant other and will likely outlive her, and I have no desire to die rich, so once my basic needs are met, money just becomes a tool to me, that I try to use for the greater good. Ya can't take it with you.

Bongulator said:

Well, personally, I give pot for free to cancer victims. I donate a fair sum each year to a fairly lengthy list of charities (I'd guess around a grand or two per year, although since I choose not to declare those on my taxes, I don't really have a need to keep absolute track). I do not take from my government what I can do without, thus leaving all those resources available to those who do need the help. There were times when I was unemployed and damn near starving, and I still refused to accept unemployment or food stamps or welfare, so that when those who had gone past 'near' starvation into real starvation would have those resources available to them. (Just because you *can* accept help from the government doesn't necessarily mean you *should*, or at least that's been how I've lived my life.)

I have done some speeches for kids in juvenile detention, off and on, to try to inspire them to achieve and make something of themselves. When I do that, I stay the night, and sleep in a cell just like they do. (I guess I'm one of the 'success stories', so the administration there gives me some leeway to be less than conventional.)

Mostly, I just donate bucks to charities. You'd *never* confuse me for someone rich. I'm solidly middle-class (and I don't mean $3 million/year McCain middle class either). But I chose not to have children, I'm younger than my significant other and will likely outlive her, and I have no desire to die rich, so once my basic needs are met, money just becomes a tool to me, that I try to use for the greater good. Ya can't take it with you.

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Fair enough. Now do you believe that "Conservatives" do not hold these beliefs?

Bongulator said:

Ya can't take it with you.

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And if Obama gets elected you won't even be able to pass it on to your family......what's his stance on the death tax again?

http://money.cnn.com/2008/08/06/smallbusiness/estate_tax.fsb/
The estate tax: McCain vs. Obama

With rates for "the death tax" changing each year, family business owners trying to plan for succession are left chasing a moving target.
By Meg Massey
Last Updated: August 6, 2008: 10:33 AM EDT

Excerpts-

Obama proposes freezing the estate tax at 2009 levels: a 45% tax rate on estates valued at more than $3.5 million. Married couples can combine their exemptions for a total of $7 million.
"By exempting all estates under $7 million, Obama's plan will shield all but about 100 estates with small business income from any estate taxation," said Obama campaign spokesman Nick Shapiro, citing the Congressional Budget Office's 2005 study on the estate tax and further analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. "Senator Obama's plan would completely exempt 99.7% of estates from taxation."


McCain's plan would be a more dramatic departure from current policy. The Arizona Senator favors a 15% tax rate, equal to the capital-gains tax rate, and an individual exemption of $5 million ($10 million for married couples).

I don't know what conservatives believe. I suspect it varies from person to person. I can only acknowledge what experience shows me, that the Reagan years were not good, the H.W. Bush years were slightly better than I expected (I'll give credit where it's due), the Clinton years were pretty darn nice, and the last eight years were outright horrible. In other words, the years when a Democrat was president seemed better than the other years, at least to me.

I'm very much a pro-freedom, pro-equality kind of guy. I don't know what *all* conservatives believe, but I do know that McCain has voted against gender equality every time he's had the opportunity. I do know that criminalizing abortions results in more dead teenagers, but no decrease in abortions. I do know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but McCain wanted us to invade and occupy anyway, regardless of the harm it did our country and our economy. I do know that the discrepancy between the rich and the poor has never been higher in the history of the human race. I do know that oil is a finite resource and we'd best get off of it pronto. And I do know that knowing all these things makes it impossible for me to vote for McCain. Those are the things I know.

Well, I hear ya on the estate tax. But that's not at all an issue I care about. I mean, A) I'm not ever going to have that much money; B) I don't know anyone who is ever gonna have that much money; and C) I think the world has enough people who have had life handed to them on a silver platter. I'm guessing you have that much money, that it's an issue with you? More power to ya, but that affects, what, 0.1% of the population? If 3.5 million dollar bills isn't enough to mop up their tears of anguish, well, life's hard like that sometimes. But absolutely, if I were rich, I would at least seriously consider voting for McCain, as he's more apt to protect the wealth of the wealthy than Obama. Bush with his tax cuts even protected the wealth of the wealthy against their own wishes. Well, at least one of them. Buffett, one of the richest people on the planet, called those tax cuts "welfare for the rich" and wondered why he, of all people, was receiving tax *cuts*. When the richest of the rich are complaining that they're not paying enough in taxes, well, ya know, maybe we should listen.

Bongulator said:

but I do know that McCain has voted against gender equality every time he's had the opportunity.

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Is this the Palin thread?

Bongulator said:

Well, I hear ya on the estate tax. But that's not at all an issue I care about. I mean, A) I'm not ever going to have that much money; B) I don't know anyone who is ever gonna have that much money; and C) I think the world has enough people who have had life handed to them on a silver platter. I'm guessing you have that much money, that it's an issue with you? More power to ya, but that affects, what, 0.1% of the population? If 3.5 million dollar bills isn't enough to mop up their tears of anguish, well, life's hard like that sometimes. But absolutely, if I were rich, I would at least seriously consider voting for McCain, as he's more apt to protect the wealth of the wealthy than Obama. Bush with his tax cuts even protected the wealth of the wealthy against their own wishes. Well, at least one of them. Buffett, one of the richest people on the planet, called those tax cuts "welfare for the rich" and wondered why he, of all people, was receiving tax *cuts*. When the richest of the rich are complaining that they're not paying enough in taxes, well, ya know, maybe we should listen.

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I support my family to the extent that I am almost always near broke; I've got a big family and many have lived a liberal lifestyle for way too long. They need a lot of financial help, but when I help them get squared away, I'm gonna be rolling in dough. Why? Because I believe it. That's why.

And as for Buffet....the multi millionaires/billionaires are all for high taxation and government regulation. Why? Because it effectively suppresses competition. What a business model!

Before I begin, I would like to say this was a very good post. One addressing specific topics. Good show!

Bongulator said:

I don't know what conservatives believe. I suspect it varies from person to person. I can only acknowledge what experience shows me, that the Reagan years were not good, the H.W. Bush years were slightly better than I expected (I'll give credit where it's due), the Clinton years were pretty darn nice, and the last eight years were outright horrible. In other words, the years when a Democrat was president seemed better than the other years, at least to me.

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I am no economist, but I believe that a President's effect on the economy does not actually take full effect until the next administration. If things are bad, painful measures are taken to correct the situation.

The economy moves at its own pace for a multitude of reasons: sometimes fast and sometimes slow. I think a President can screw up an economy much easier than he could fix an ailing one. The economy will fix itself if left alone to do so.

In fact, it is over regulation and onerous taxation which chases investment out of the country. A society cannot tax itself into prosperity.

Bongulator said:

I'm very much a pro-freedom, pro-equality kind of guy. I don't know what *all* conservatives believe, but I do know that McCain has voted against gender equality every time he's had the opportunity.

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I have never seen his record on this issue, so I cannot comment except to say I will look into it. I can say that his choice for Veep is his ace in the hole. Sorts of blunts your argument even assuming you are correct.

Bongulator said:

I do know that criminalizing abortions results in more dead teenagers, but no decrease in abortions.

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I agree. I do not advocate the end of legal abortion and many conservatives agree with me. The notion that the Conservatives are all in one voice on this issue is a fantasy. SOME conservatives have a hard-on for this issue and are very vocal.

To me, it is irrelevant. Abortion is a STATE issue, not a federal issue. Like cannabis prohibition, the Federal Government has no say in the issue. See the 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights, U.S. Constitution.

Bongulator said:

I do know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but McCain wanted us to invade and occupy anyway, regardless of the harm it did our country and our economy.

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The Island of Guadalcanal had nothing to do with Pearl Harbor, but we fought the Japanese there. There was no way the U.S. forces could go straight to Tokyo in 1942, so they had to fight the enemy where they thought they could win. That's what they did and that is what we are doing. We do not fight a state, we fight a holy idiology in a Clash of Civilizations.

Bongulator said:

I do know that the discrepancy between the rich and the poor has never been higher in the history of the human race.

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I need to see your source on this.

I found this in the Census Report linked below. Where exactly is this historic discrepancy? The BIGGEST discrepancy (a 30th percentile) seems to be the gulf which separates those who make $40,000 (blue line) and those who make $60,000. Where is this shrinking middle class I keep hearing about?

The blue line represents the bottom 50% percentile, they pay a grand total of 3% of all Federal Income taxes. The top 50% pays 97%. There's your discrepancy.


http://www.census.gov/prod/2004pubs/p60-226.pdf

Bongulator said:

I do know that oil is a finite resource and we'd best get off of it pronto.

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I agree. Pronto. And BOTH parties are responsible, which means we are all responsible because we allowed it to go on. OPEC warned us in 1973, but we as a nation kept ignoring the warning signs and red flags. We bought SUVs and big trucks and laughed at compact cars and hybrids. Plenty of Democrats did it, too.

We are heading for a world of shit if we do not correct immediately, but it may be too late to do anything but save ourselves at this point, especially if the economic plan of the Chosen One pushes our economy over the cliff ahead of the oil crash, which is coming.

I wouldn't look too much at numbers and say 'the middle class is here'. Number of dollars is one thing, but the purchasing power of those dollars is another. $40,000 is decent if gas is a buck per gallon, food isn't outrageous, and your employer pays for your healthcare. A lot has changed in the last few years. The amount of disposable income a middle-class family has is seriously squeezed now, compared to eight years ago.

I was talking about that with my significant other a few days ago. We were commenting on the fact that when she was making $36k/year after taxes, and I was unemployed, we were doing pretty well, but now, when we're making a combined $85k-ish after taxes, we're kinda broke. Well, okay, not *broke* broke, but we are definitely less wealthy now than we were ten or fifteen years ago, despite the fact that we're making much more money. What happened? The money doesn't buy nearly as much, that's what happened.

$60k/year now is not remotely close to what it was just ten years ago in terms of buying power. Gas, food and healthcare alone probably eat up $25k/year or so out of most two-person household budgets if they have to pay for their healthcare without employer help. Seeing as the median wage is $18.01/hour, that's just about everything that an average earner makes after taxes, plowed right into those three things. Oh, you want to live somewhere too? Welp, then gas or food or healthcare has to go, take your pick and enjoy the new middle class.

People in official 'poverty' in the U.S. have cell phones, wide-screen TVs, computers, cars, some even own houses. They are the fattest poor in the world. A world where fat is a sign of wealth.

If you clear $85K after taxes and you cannot increase your wealth, you are doing something wrong. Re-assess your budget.

Forget what you clear: how much do you earn? Gross. And how much of that is seized by the government?