Al B. FAQt

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Old in the Way

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Well i ought to copy this to you if you will be in the wind for a bit......

Asking for your best recollection on things since i believe you said it was 6-8yrs ago that you were aerocloning.............


So i have the aerocloner full and a couple trays of clones on the heat mat.

They all look good on the surface but when i took the lid off the aerocloner to check ph the stems have atrophied (sp?) a little and are browning up---is this normal? Should i be concerned? Will they root despite the stem size contracting a bit and browning?? Is this an indication of rot setting in?? Water is at 5.8ph with h202 at 1.5ml/L Temps are 82-86 in the clone zone RH 70++% Water Temps are running a constant with ambient temps, sometimes a degree more. Could the water temps be to high??


Any input you may have would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
 

Jtoth3ustin

Well-Known Member
my friend just bought a fogger recently. supposed to be better than aero i heard.. Al. wus goin on man. was wondering whats your opinion on hesi. heard good things but not about superthrive. somebody said it was pointless... pe@ce
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Well, Happy Harvesting & Smoking!!!,,You Going To Show Use Some Pic's????
yeah, soon as I get done being cross-eyed... gotta see about some reading/work glasses, being of advanced age, myself...

Well i ought to copy this to you if you will be in the wind for a bit......

Asking for your best recollection on things since i believe you said it was 6-8yrs ago that you were aerocloning.............
Yes, it's been a while.

So i have the aerocloner full and a couple trays of clones on the heat mat.
ok

They all look good on the surface but when i took the lid off the aerocloner to check ph the stems have atrophied (sp?) a little and are browning up---is this normal?
no.

Should i be concerned?
yes.

Will they root despite the stem size contracting a bit and browning??
Probably, but higher up the stem, above the rot.

Is this an indication of rot setting in??
yep!

Water is at 5.8ph with h202 at 1.5ml/L Temps are 82-86 in the clone zone RH 70++% Water Temps are running a constant with ambient temps, sometimes a degree more. Could the water temps be to high??
Yes, could be a bit warm. Also, are the stem tips in the water? Shouldn't be. Is there water dripping off the stems? If so, run the air pump on a timer perhaps 5mins every 30.

I read some where that canna and gh are very similiar.
Not similar enough to do this. GH is a 3 part nutrient, Canna is 2 part. 3 part nutes drive me mad. I put 450ml each "A" and "B" in each 125L tank every 2 weeks. That's the sum total of yutzing around with nutes in my op.

Have you ever heard of " Fog and Flow"?
Nope. I played with an ultrasonic fogger from a pet shop a few years back, was a bit disappointed with it. It gacked up with nute salts rather quickly. I've seen some foggers recently that seem designed for horticultural use. These have a Teflon coated piezoelectric diaphragm which may solve this problem.

heard good things but not about superthrive. somebody said it was pointless... pe@ce
I've used Superthrive in the past. It is one of the few magic sauces that has some sorta-science behind it. The main ingredient appears to be vitamin B, which does seem to have some use as a growth enhancer. Whatever else is in the stuff is open to conjecture. However, at the dosage rates Superthrive suggest (1 drop/gallon), it's hard to believe that it would be effective as a vit B supplement. I never noticed enough benefit from it to pay the truly nutty prices asked for the goo. If you want a vit B supp, there's probably cheaper competing products around.
 

Sensay

Active Member
First, inorganic nutrients are not synthetic. They're essentially composed of the stuff that organics break down into. Organic nutrients must first break down into elementals before the plant can use them so there technically can be no difference.[/QUOTE]


This is what I've tried to tell people who are die hard organic. The plant does not suck up a big lump of compost, then digest it, no it has to be broken down to basics before hand, such as nitrogen for example. So nitrogen is nitrogen, can you really tell me a plant prefers or can distinguish between N from compost pile, a bottle, or a bats ass. Then after the plant uses this N molecule in its growth, you can taste the difference when you puff. Chems such as insectisides are another story.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Quote:
Can i have ur .02 on organic vs synthetics?
First, inorganic nutrients are not synthetic. They're essentially composed of the stuff that organics break down into. Organic nutrients must first break down into elementals before the plant can use them so there technically can be no difference.
I didn't answer that fully, got distracted with real life, sorry about that. :?

Organic hydroponic nutes are forever a problem for folks I talk to on here. Organic nutes are generally incompatible with H2O2 as the H2O2 busies itself trying to break down the organic compounds in the nutes rather than attacking pathogens. Pathogen control in organic systems is by introducing competing organisms and use of enzymatic agents to break down dead organic matter. The competing organisms war isn't always won and it's hard to tell if you are winning without a microscope.

Ops running inorganic nutes & H2O2 have clean, clear tanks and it's obvious when something's amiss- and much easier to correct.

can you really tell me a plant prefers or can distinguish between N from compost pile, a bottle, or a bats ass. Then after the plant uses this N molecule in its growth, you can taste the difference when you puff. Chems such as insectisides are another story.
zackly. :)
 

davedub69

Active Member
Al! THANKS again for all the GREAT, no bullshit information you give to us! I've read every page in Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks and every page of this thread. I have two questions that i wanted to run by you. First, dealing with cooltubes, do u think there would be an advantage to running seperate fan and exhaust tubes for each cooltube to try to elimate even more heat from the light to possible even bring them closer to the palnts? Second, heat in grows rooms are a mjaor concern but what about cold? What is an acceptable cold temp? Where I am located our winters get a lil nasty with some rather cold temps. sometimes into the 10-20 F. I am askign b/c i plan on building a grow room in a basement and basement temps always seem to be a cooler than rest of house. THANKS again! Btw... may we start calling you the Dr. b/c you got the PHD in the THC!
 

Old in the Way

Well-Known Member
Thanks Al....

Yes there is water dripping off the stems, They are sprayed from the water pump pushing through those little red mist heads--which seems a little violent to me, not airsones/airpump (although it came with an airpump/stone to o2-ate the res)

I am having trouble finding a digital minute-timer in stock around my part of the world so I have had to order one online--should be here in a couple days.

I have been lowering the water temps in the aerocloner slowly to try and get them down to 26-28*C and keep them there. The offspring on the heat mat look good so I don't feel it was gardener error on the ones in the EZ Cloner, same cut process, same hormone, etc...I'll keep you posted

Thanks again, happy harvesting/manicuring, lol---at least its only a couple lbs huh..may your scissors stay sharp and your buds be fat.

-OitW
 

Lobo69

Active Member
Hey.
Just wondering how you control the temp in your bud dryer...I can't seem to get an accurate temp control of my soldering iron with the incandescent dimmer...it just goes from off to very hot in the middle of rotation...any help would be appreciated...thanks.
Also how big is your heatsink?
 

newportbeach949

Active Member
updated picture if you remember me from a couple weeks ago.

middle of week 5 -starting the cha chinggg

i think i'm likeing this hydro thing better than my soil grows, alot easier to control everbody and the same time.

again thanks for helpin me out in the beginingbongsmilie
edit* i'm expecting about .5 per watt with my two 400's , next cycle i'm building the room a tad bigger to have another table like this with some light moving rails , i would then think .5 - 1.0 may be possible
 

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HAZEOHOLIC

Well-Known Member
hello Al

Thanks for all the advise you given me, have one moe I would like to know what if any enviroment controllers you use and co2 controllers also.
I had to make 2 closets for my grow each closets has 2 trays I know I have to get 2 co2 inmjection controllers but to read PH EC TDS I need 2 also? thanks for the info Al
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Al! THANKS again for all the GREAT, no bullshit information you give to us!
no wucking furries, mate. :)
I've read every page in Get a Harvest Every 2 Weeks and every page of this thread.
A pretty tough slog, but worth it.
I have two questions that i wanted to run by you. First, dealing with cooltubes, do u think there would be an advantage to running seperate fan and exhaust tubes for each cooltube to try to elimate even more heat from the light to possible even bring them closer to the palnts?
Each 1000HPS causes about a 6C rise in the temp of the air going through the tube. So, if you have 20C intake air, the air exiting the first cooltube will be 26c, then 32C as it exits the second cooltube. I don't think it would make much difference if you have just two cooltubes in one daisy chain. It's when you add a third one inline that the air temp in the cooltube is high enough that it begins to significantly warm the glass in cooltube #3 and the ducting downline from that tube. When the ducting & glass gets warm, that heat will begin to convect through the duct and into the growroom airmass, defeating the purpose of having cooltubes. It certainly will not hurt to have a blower and separate ducting for each cooltube though.
Second, heat in grows rooms are a mjaor concern but what about cold? What is an acceptable cold temp?
Cannabis plants go dormant below about 16C.
I am askign b/c i plan on building a grow room in a basement and basement temps always seem to be a cooler than rest of house.
About 1m below the surface, the earth is a constant 15-16C. This means that your basement will be cooler than ambient air temp in the summer but will be significantly warmer than ambient in the winter. Your basement will probably be 14-16C in winter, depending upon how well insulated any part of it which is above 1m below the surface happens to be. You will probably find that your lighting alone is enough to raise your room temp to 25C in winter. If you use cooltubes, you may want to organise a wye pipe on the outlet end of the cooltube, with one outlet of the wye going out of the room and one opening into the grow, allowing warm air from the lighting to remain in the op. You simply block one outlet depending on the time of year.

Yes there is water dripping off the stems, They are sprayed from the water pump pushing through those little red mist heads--which seems a little violent to me, not airsones/airpump (although it came with an airpump/stone to o2-ate the res)
My aerocloner was a deep tub, about 400mm deep with about 50mm of water in the bottom. An airstone in the water created the mist. I ran the air pump for 5 mins every 30, could have been every hour. If you have sprayers constantly wetting your stems, they will rot. Small secret- it does not take exposing stems to liquid water to get root nodes, only very high humidity.

I am having trouble finding a digital minute-timer in stock around my part of the world so I have had to order one online--should be here in a couple days.
Wow, I can't imagine where one would have to live to not be able to easily source a digital timer. Sorry for your grief, but you need some digital timers

Hey.
Just wondering how you control the temp in your bud dryer...
With a thermostat. I use a modified Jaycar QT7200. I have removed the thermistor (temp sensor) from the thermostat and added a length of 2-conductor wire so the thermistor can be located in the warm airstream flowing into the dryer.








note little blue thermistor located in airstream

I have more detailed images showing how to disassemble & mod the QT7200 if you need them.

I can't seem to get an accurate temp control of my soldering iron with the incandescent dimmer...it just goes from off to very hot in the middle of rotation...any help would be appreciated...thanks.
Yep, you need a thermostat switching the soldering iron heating element on and off.

Also how big is your heatsink?
It is 150mm long x 75mm wide x 50mm thick. Fins run along the 150mm axis.

updated picture if you remember me from a couple weeks ago.
Hi again. :)

i think i'm likeing this hydro thing better than my soil grows, alot easier to control everbody and the same time.
It's an awful lot easier than some would have you believe. ;)

again thanks for helpin me out in the beginingbongsmilie
no worries :)
edit* i'm expecting about .5 per watt with my two 400's , next cycle i'm building the room a tad bigger to have another table like this with some light moving rails , i would then think .5 - 1.0 may be possible
.5g/W is a reasonable expectation for a new grower in SoG.

I'd skip the light mover. If the area you are lighting is too large for the lighting you have, add more or bigger lights. The problem with light movers is that there's no light over one end of the grow while the mover has the lamp on the other end. You have to consider a new figure- lux-hours, or lumens per sq metre per hour, to account for the time that the mover has the lamp on the other end of the grow. Also, linear light movers do not distribute light evenly; the plants in the middle of the traverse get more lux-hours than the plants on the ends of the travel.

I would like to know what if any enviroment controllers you use and co2 controllers also.
I don't use CO2 and only use thermostats to control the intake & exhaust blowers.

I had to make 2 closets for my grow each closets has 2 trays I know I have to get 2 co2 injection controllers but to read PH EC TDS I need 2 also?
No, you really only need one EC meter and one pH meter to test your solutions.

Question, If I order the ...

High Tech Garden Supply

What do I mount all the components too? Wood or do I need something that can with stand some heat. Any pics of how other people mount and place these components in?
A piece of plywood will do fine. I buy already assembled ballasts, which are contained in a steel box, so I have not had to gin one up as such- so sorry, no pix. Component placement is not critical.
 

Lobo69

Active Member
Thanks for the reply.
Okay...so if the soldering iron is controlled by the thermostat, then what purpose does the dimmer serve? I think I'm missing something here...
 

greenstar

Active Member
Al, I'm glad they opened the thread back up. After seeing your thread and after 10 years from doing this (haven't grown in 10 years) I decided to get back in the game. 10 years ago I did bubblers in closets, and well now I'm all growns up. :D

Here are my questions to you if you would be so kind. I'm going to do my best to imitate your setup, but 1/2 sized. 1 1000 watt lamp. Here is what I have and I'm looking for your advice.

I have a room, it's 11' X 11' X 8'. In that room is a closet that is 4.2' X 2.2' X 8'. The room has central air/heat (one duct).
I read in one of your posts that if you had the room you'd use a grow tent so I plan on buying a 4' X 8' X 7' tent for flowering. I'll mimic your setup with two 3' X 3' trays, put the light over the middle, fytocell, flood and drain, pretty much going to follow your lead.

For vegetation it'll be just moms. If I follow your deal I'm guessing I'd need 3-4 moms. I have a leftover 150HPS, will this be enough light for them harvesting 1 tray per month? And will a 2' X 2' flood/drain setup work for those 4? Vegetation will be in a hut also, unless I try to use the closet I referred to above. Do I need intake/exhaust for this or can I let it be with just a small fan or two in the tent?

My next question is since I have aircon/heat going to that room, do I need to worry about venting the room out? If I need to I could get intake/exhaust fans and run some ducting to center of the ceiling and pull out the ceiling fan I have there. I just don't know if it'll be needed.

I can use tents.... one for each veg and flower or use the closet for veg. I'm not going to jack with CO2. My main questions are if a 2' X 2' will be enough room for 4 moms, and how much light they'll need if I plan on harvesting one tray per month. My other main concern is if I need to hook up intake and exhaust fans to the tent, and whether I need to run ducting to the ceiling, to the attic, if I have aircon/heat going to that room.

Thanks for all your hard work man. You've made it easy for me to get back into this. I've read for months as I couldn't figure out which of these newer methods to use (Drip, SOG, SCROG, on and on). I'll be using fytocell, all the same shit man, you've made it easy. Mucho props. The first night I started reading the original thread, I think I spent 8 hours straight reading. You think like me, why make shit more difficult than it needs to be. Occam's Razor.
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
Thanks for the reply.
Okay...so if the soldering iron is controlled by the thermostat, then what purpose does the dimmer serve? I think I'm missing something here...
The circuit was designed initially for use with resistors which were really a bit too small in value for the line voltage vs. their power dissipation. The dimmer was used to limit the current to those resistors to keep dissipation at 25w per resistor. I later changed the R values and increased the number of them to 6. I again shot the R values a bit low, so that I could increase the dissipation through each resistor above the 25W rating if the heat shifted off them by the heat sink allowed it.

Use of a soldering iron as the heating element was really not my intention when I designed the circuit, but the dimmer is not entirely superfluous when using one as a heating element.

If building the dryer without a thermostat, the dimmer is used as a rough means of adjusting the temperature of the warm airstream.

If building the dryer with a thermostat, the dimmer will slow the speed at which the iron element heats up and will limit its top temperature. Remember that the iron element by itself in free air is capable of reaching temps of 420C (800F) in just a few minutes. Yes, if you have fixed the soldering iron element to a heatsink, that top temp will be limited, but with a dimmer inline with the thermostat, the ramp-up rate is slowed and top temp limited so the thermostat does not click on & off frequently.

I have a room, it's 11' X 11' X 8'. In that room is a closet that is 4.2' X 2.2' X 8'. The room has central air/heat (one duct).
No return duct?

I read in one of your posts that if you had the room you'd use a grow tent so I plan on buying a 4' X 8' X 7' tent for flowering.
You might check the cost of a pre-made tent against the cost of a roll of pandafilm and some 2x4 timbers.

Do I need intake/exhaust for this or can I let it be with just a small fan or two in the tent?
All grows need throughflow ventilation, unless you have an aircon unit & CO2 tank devoted to that space. CO2 depleted air must be replaced. Circ fans within the space are necessary but fans do not cool air- they make it warmer by way of heat emitted from their motors. Circ fans also do not replenish CO2 nor remove excess humidity.
My next question is since I have aircon/heat going to that room, do I need to worry about venting the room out? If I need to I could get intake/exhaust fans and run some ducting to center of the ceiling and pull out the ceiling fan I have there. I just don't know if it'll be needed.
If there's an intake, there must be an exhaust or nothing happens. A grow tent in the middle of a room can intake air from the room and dump it back in the room, but then you have to see about shifting that air out of the room hosting the tent. If this room has a duct from the central aircon system, there's usually a return duct to allow recirculation of the air through the aircon system. That will be sufficient to remove heat and humidity from the air in the room hosting the tent, The airmass of the rest of the dwelling should be sufficient to supply CO2 for a small grow, but the window in the room with the op should be left cracked open an inch or so to be sure.

My main questions are if a 2' X 2' will be enough room for 4 moms, and how much light they'll need if I plan on harvesting one tray per month.
Yes, 2x2 will be fine, your spare 150HPS will also be well suited to raising the mums. It'll need sufficient ventilation, though. Mums transpire a lot of moisture into the air and the lighting needs to run 18+h/day, so ventilation will need to be able to cope.

Thanks for all your hard work man.
no worries. :)
 

greenstar

Active Member
The return air vent is located just outside the room and it's quite large. There are 2 big return vents in the dwelling around the centers. For stealth, cracking the window open isn't a good idea.

So I need intake and exhaust fans for the tents *veg and flower*?? With central air/heat, do I need to run ducting from the light to the attic for venting purposes?
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
The return air vent is located just outside the room and it's quite large.
So, the room housing the tent has a feeder duct from the central air but no return to the central unit other than through an open door? If this is the case, when you close the room's door, you may note that the flow rate from the inbound duct drops dramatically.

There are 2 big return vents in the dwelling around the centers.
I don't quite understand what you mean.

For stealth, cracking the window open isn't a good idea.
Well, you need to remove the CO2 depleted air from the dwelling and introduce more CO2 somehow. Exhausting air into the attic might be a good way to do this as the air you remove will be replaced by atmospheric pressure.

So I need intake and exhaust fans for the tents *veg and flower*??
I think that's what I said. At very least, you need an exhaust blower and an intake port large enough (about 2x the dia of the exhaust) so as to not restrict the flow through the exhaust blower. If you're not using cooltubes, choose an exhaust blower that moves about 1cfm for every cubic foot of room airmass ie 200cu ft closet, 200CFM blower.

With central air/heat, do I need to run ducting from the light to the attic for venting purposes?
If you can, it'd save you some dough on electricity as the aircon would not be responsible for shifting the heat outside. It'd also force CO2 laden air to be drawn into the dwelling and subsequently the room.
 

NLXSK1

Well-Known Member
Al,

Alot of houses in the US do not have dedicated air returns for each room in the house. They have the supply register in the room and rely on the door to be cut 1-2" higher than the floor to be used as the air return.

Then a central air return is located in 1 or two main locations in the house to allow the air to be drawn back to the HVAC unit.

FYI
 

Al B. Fuct

once had a dog named
dang. Well, if greenstar can put in an exhaust that vents into the attic, he'll get the aircon into the space via the feed duct and will get fresh CO2 drawn into the grow, too, as the volume of air that the exhaust removes will enter the structure via air leaks.

Without a decent sized return (i.e. door closed and 1-2" gap at floor level) and with no vent to the attic, I have some concerns about temp control.
 
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