Air pump and air stone question: please and thanks

Greetings. Running a hydroponic DWC system- two (20 gallon totes) with two plants in each tote. How many air stones (and size) would you run in each tote/reservoir, if you were me? Also, any suggestions on a decent air pump that is not too loud/expensive? I'm dropping some coin on lights; hoping I can upgrade the pump later and get buy with a decent one for now. Any info is great. Please and thanks. Hope you all are well

Air pumps were the most annoying thing for me. IMO, dealing with air stones degrading and getting gross over time, Lines requiring to be black and getting slimy, and just the volume of an air pump was enough to get rid of it all.
What you oughtta do is get yourself another 20gal tote or maybe even a bigger 27gal if it's HDX brand, and use it as a reservoir.
From this res, (which you might already have, but I'm assuming these are 2 stand alone totes) you'll connect the 2 totes to it on the bottom with 2" bulkheads and black ABS pipe as a gravity return. Using the res as an epicenter, you can either use a submersible or preferably, an inline pump, to supply a simple 3/4" PVC manifold that stretches the distance needed to reach your totes. Then branch off and reduce to 1/2" black vinyl hydro tubing to introduce WATERFALLS to these totes.

The constant breaking of the waters surface tension will be enough if not MORE THAN what air stones can provide as far as dissolved oxygen goes. The constant recirculation of water keeps everything very stable and happy, including your pH and oxygen distribution. Check it out. There's a brigade of us here who have seen muh thread and gone this route and never looked back.
Including but not limited to:
My boys:@fragileassassin
@5BY5LEC
@Axion42

Yup not dealing with air pump/stones/lines is a big time and money saver for me. I don't have to take a single component out of my system to clean it. Built it in tent 5 grows ago and it hasn't moved since. Cleanup after a grow is easy, pump out excess water, fill with fresh water and a little bleach and let pump circulate for a few days, scrub bucket side walls with a new toilet cleaning brush, it's perfect for cleaning the 3inch pipes as well. Empty and refill with fresh water - done.

Axion42 said:

Yup not dealing with air pump/stones/lines is a big time and money saver for me. I don't have to take a single component out of my system to clean it. Built it in tent 5 grows ago and it hasn't moved since. Cleanup after a grow is easy, pump out excess water, fill with fresh water and a little bleach and let pump circulate for a few days, scrub bucket side walls with a new toilet cleaning brush, it's perfect for cleaning the 3inch pipes as well. Empty and refill with fresh water - done.

Click to expand...

I don't even do that. Props to you my dude.
Hahaha.
I just shop/wet vac out wherever is left in in after removing all lids, net pots, rootballs and hydroton. Leaving maybe a half an inch or so of water, really just what doesn't get pulled through the bulkheads and piping just on being lower than the bulkhead is able to go, then use this water to rinse the Harbor Freight 2-piece Round Brush that is used to clean inside (as far as I can) each pipe connection, but more so the bulkheads(uniseals in my case) of the gunk that does and WILL accumulate on them.
Side note:
I also use the vac to stick the vinyl line from the pump I disconnect, into the vacuum hose to suck out residual water left in the manifold best I can. I do the same for the chiller lines, using my hand to cup the mouth of the hose to get good, tight suction to help with getting the leftover water out. I ALWAYS pump fresh water through my chiller though RIGHT BEFORE using it though just to clear it out.
Continuing:
Just dunk it in that leftover half inch of water after to clean the brush. Also, I'll go up the walls of the buckets. Then once each bulkhead/uniseal and inner pipe has been scrubbed, I vac out the rest, one bucket at a time.
There will always be some residual water left in them which at that point I use a brand new clean large towel, to use the edges of, pulled tight, to slide UNDERNEATH the uniseals to clean the bottoms of them as the brush just can't do it. Then once that's all said and done, use the middle of the towel to dry the bottom, work your way up the sides of the bucket, to the lip. Use the partially wet portion of the towel to clean the lip, as it sometimes builds up some salt, and continue through each bucket. Sounds like a lot, but it's not. Takes 30seconds per bucket. Once they're dry, the reservoir is last. Same thing, except I go over the vinyl tube connecting from the pump to the manifold at the res lid to remove the slime buildup. Get everything dry and its ready for next round.
I figure if plants made it to harvest, happy and healthy. There no reason to bleach the system.

Airwalker16 said:

Air pumps were the most annoying thing for me. IMO, dealing with air stones degrading and getting gross over time, Lines requiring to be black and getting slimy, and just the volume of an air pump was enough to get rid of it all.
What you oughtta do is get yourself another 20gal tote or maybe even a bigger 27gal if it's HDX brand, and use it as a reservoir.
From this res, (which you might already have, but I'm assuming these are 2 stand alone totes) you'll connect the 2 totes to it on the bottom with 2" bulkheads and black ABS pipe as a gravity return. Using the res as an epicenter, you can either use a submersible or preferably, an inline pump, to supply a simple 3/4" PVC manifold that stretches the distance needed to reach your totes. Then branch off and reduce to 1/2" black vinyl hydro tubing to introduce WATERFALLS to these totes.

The constant breaking of the waters surface tension will be enough if not MORE THAN what air stones can provide as far as dissolved oxygen goes. The constant recirculation of water keeps everything very stable and happy, including your pH and oxygen distribution. Check it out. There's a brigade of us here who have seen muh thread and gone this route and never looked back.
Including but not limited to:
My boys:@fragileassassin
@5BY5LEC
@Axion42

I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)

That thing is way overpriced. The whole thing sits on a very simple method of splitting the water to oxygen and hydrogen. In big system I’d be worried about the hydrogen gas... I was looking around and saw 2 more very interesting thing. First one called Carmin. I don’t really get how it...

www.rollitup.org

I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)

That's cool man. Pretty low-key. I think you'll be surprised at the pressure of mine. i can't remember now, but its some where around 5-600 gph

www.rollitup.org

Click to expand...

Oh wow. This is so cool. I am so down to give this a try. Is it hard maintaining water temps with this system? I would be so down to give this a try and not go the airstone/airpump route. I hear they are nothing but trouble. I just googled/amazon'd some of the items you mentioned to get a visual. Also check out the links briefly and looked over your pics. I am imaging my initial system should be pretty simple, if just using a 27gal reservoir/tote and two (20gal) totes with two plants each. Thanks again. I am sure I will have some questions. Way exciting.

lilbry said:

Oh wow. This is so cool. I am so down to give this a try. Is it hard maintaining water temps with this system? I would be so down to give this a try and not go the airstone/airpump route. I hear they are nothing but trouble. I just googled/amazon'd some of the items you mentioned to get a visual. Also check out the links briefly and looked over your pics. I am imaging my initial system should be pretty simple, if just using a 27gal reservoir/tote and two (20gal) totes with two plants each. Thanks again. I am sure I will have some questions. Way exciting.

Click to expand...

I will always be a proponent of using a chiller. Some of do, some of us don't. If not using one, @fragileassassin will guide you to use Southern AG beneficial bacteria to keep your system in check. If you do use one, set it at 65℉ and you're all set.
To negate temps rising from the pump, this is why I highly recommend using an INLINE pump in which you can use a very small 3/4" or whatever size you're going to use BulkHead right at the bottom of your reservoir in the Front to pull the water from. That way the heat from the pump is cooled by ambient air and not the systems water it'd be sitting in with a submersible. A chiller solves this problem either way though.

@Libry one thing I wish I could change in my thread though is the amount of times I mention the 1600gph pump. Ended up using that with an Aero setup for moms and new starts. I needed the massive output to overcome the 5' of head pressure it has to climb up to get to the spray heads.
So the system now uses only a 450-600gph pump for the entire 8 site setup and it's plenty.
Fragile will agree, it's not needed to use a huge volume output pump. For you especially, an Eco396 would be perfect. That's what's being used on the miniature setup as an inline. It's useable both ways as it has a removable front where the filter sits and the impeller has female threads on the outside housing to attach included fittings to for an inline style instead.

Highly recommend you browse his threads also as you will more than likely find many tidbits of information.
Must admit though, his setups are a bit more complex and built for HIS specific needs, as where my thread is more general and basic for the beginner. He does have a very clever fix for bulkheads though using drain adapters on his veg tent of 12x 3.5gal bucket setup to save some cash.
Another guy just posted a thread very recently I'm sire you can find in the RDwC/hydro forum using 2" Electrical adapters very very similar to what he did, just different components, but on an even LARGER scale. It's pretty massive.

You can only get so far without a chiller.
I control my basement temps pretty well and my water temps stay under 70F on their own in the single site totes I use, but those totes arent under the hot flower lights, those are all for side stuff.
If I ran the flower system without the chiller it wouldn't work.
Southern ag works great at 1ml per 5 gallons some do as little as 1ml to 10 gallons.
If everything else is good, the southern ag will let you get away with water temps up to around 75F.

I like around 100gph per site for pumps.

Im always so excited when someone is super down to dive in to waterfalls like @lilbry . There's lots of us already chiming in here very willing to help you just as I did for them. It's so fun to see the progress, that is, as long as you do your part and post pics for us of your setup as it goes. From the parts all layer out, to drilling the holes, to putting it together, and to it finally running!

Airwalker16 said:

@Libry one thing I wish I could change in my thread though is the amount of times I mention the 1600gph pump. Ended up using that with an Aero setup for moms and new starts. I needed the massive output to overcome the 5' of head pressure it has to climb up to get to the spray heads.
So the system now uses only a 450-600gph pump for the entire 8 site setup and it's plenty.
Fragile will agree, it's not needed to use a huge volume output pump. For you especially, an Eco396 would be perfect. That's what's being used on the miniature setup as an inline. It's useable both ways as it has a removable front where the filter sits and the impeller has female threads on the outside housing to attach included fittings to for an inline style instead.

Highly recommend you browse his threads also as you will more than likely find many tidbits of information.

Fragile back at it. DIY RDWC with the things.

Rinsing the system out with fresh water tonight so figured I would share the process some this time. Goal is to transplant tonight. Build of the veg system is in the link in my signature. This is my 5x5 veg tent, will share progress of the flower setup as I start prepping it here in the next...

www.rollitup.org

Fragile's Flowers Rnd 2! New veg room RDWC from first clones.

Feel free to post any comments or questions about my setup or grow!! Please just keep it on topic and somehow related to this post and try to keep multiple points to one post. I am always open to feedback or questions. Getting things set up for my 2nd crop and figure I'd start one of these...

www.rollitup.org

Click to expand...

This is so cool. I have been looking through your thread and pics. I am excited to try this. How should I set up the totes? Are they each individually connected to the res/tote or are they sort of spaced in a line (thus one only being connected to the res/tote)? Also, this is my first grow. I know...shooting for the moon with hydroponics. Germinating seeds and planning on top feeding/drip my plants until the roots touch their water sources. Is that the standard protocol? How should I set up the pumps for top feeding during this time...I'm imaging I might have to use different pumps from the water fall inline. Thanks again for the info. I am sure I will have more questions as I go.

lilbry said:

This is so cool. I have been looking through your thread and pics. I am excited to try this. How should I set up the totes? Are they each individually connected to the res/tote or are they sort of spaced in a line (thus one only being connected to the res/tote)? Also, this is my first grow. I know...shooting for the moon with hydroponics. Germinating seeds and planning on top feeding my plants in veg, until the roots touch the res/tote. Is that the standard protocol? How should I set up the pumps for top feeding during this time...I'm imaging I might have to use different pumps from the water fall inline. Thanks again for the info. I am sure I will have more questions as I go.

Click to expand...

If you're in a 4x4 tent you'll just set them up where they're the most equally spaced. You'll only probably need to just run a straight ling right through the middle of then to the res which you'll have outside the tent. Will require you to cut an "X" in the bottom for the pipe to go through. But depending on the way you orient the totes, it'd be BEST set up with them side by side, the returns coming off the short sides and elbowing each individually over to the res. Like this:

As for the seedlings, start them in a solo cup of Coco until they get. A decent root system. In the future, be aware that these setups and rdwc in general, are made for clones. That way you can feed the new long roots through a netpot, fill it with hydroton, and set it in the system. Roots are already dangling in the water. Do NOT top feed, ever. That shit never works. Just drowns seedlings. Fragile uses an Aero cloner setup with collars to start new seeds with pretty great success too. But either way you choose, you need a decent root zone established before you introduce them into this setup.

Airwalker16 said:

If you're in a 4x4 tent you'll just set them up where they're the most equally spaced. You'll only probably need to just run a straight ling right through the middle of then to the res which you'll have outside the tent. Will require you to cut an "X" in the bottom for the pipe to go through. But depending on the way you orient the totes, it'd be BEST set up with them side by side, the returns coming off the short sides and elbowing each individually over to the res. Like this:
View attachment 4533081
As for the seedlings, start them in a solo cup of Coco until they get. A decent root system. In the future, be aware that these setups and rdwc in general, are made for clones. That way you can feed the new long roots through a netpot, fill it with hydroton, and set it in the system. Roots are already dangling in the water. Do NOT top feed, ever. That shit never works. Just drowns seedlings. Fragile uses an Aero cloner setup with collars to start new seeds with pretty great success too. But either way you choose, you need a decent root zone established before you introduce them into this setup.

Click to expand...

Oh my bad. I spoke wrong. I was planning on germinating seeds and sprouting them in rockwool cubes. When ever the proper time was, I was planning on doing the hydroton/net pot and bringing them to the system...that when I thought I was suppose to top feed the plant until the roots touched the water. Eventually I'd love to have a veg/mother plant tent set up and a flowering tent set up. I was just hoping to do it all in my 4x4 on this first grow. It sounds like I might be missing some sort of in between things for veging and establishing the roots more.

Rockwool ESPECIALLY stay away from. Use root riot or rapid rooters if anything.

Check out my latest take on DWC aerators for 25 gallon totes for an rdwc system I started making. I scored big time on assorted bulk bags of irrigation compression fittings ($1 a bag at the habitat for humanity store!) that are kind of expensive if bought by the peice at a hardware store. Then I found that lowes has 1/2 soaker hoses that fit snuggly in the fittings.

I havent even tested one in water yet since I stopped growing for a bit and been on break the last year, but im sure theyll work soon as I start getting it hooked up. Wanna float like a raft ya I bet, but I have plans to keep them fastened down.

I just plan to simply replace all the little 3 inch sections of hose every cycle or so. And have a box full of them ready to go.

With this method, if it works(i hope), you can create all kinds of patterns to fit, and really spread out the output for even bubbles.


And ya air pumps suck, I would hate to run them in the house if I had too lol. Much rather hear a waterfall.

My DIY system uses 2 totes and one Igloo cooler as a rez. During cooler months I could go 3 hours without changing out blue ice paks, but much warmer temps caused the ice paks to turn to liquid in 1.5 hours which necissitated wrapping the Igloo and covering the lid. This keep rez temps below 70 for ~ 4 hours and overnight ~ 72-75. I flood every 1- 1.5 hours. Inside the rez I have a 80gph pump affixed to a plastic bottle with drilled holes and platonic solids (do a search for Structured Water) and small marbles inside that the nutes are forced into and through. This pump is sequenced to the flood pump which empties the Igloo in 3 minutes. During the last minute the res is so low that the nutes spray out of the bottle into the air inside the Igloo (see photos)

Airwalker16 said:

Air pumps were the most annoying thing for me. IMO, dealing with air stones degrading and getting gross over time, Lines requiring to be black and getting slimy, and just the volume of an air pump was enough to get rid of it all.
What you oughtta do is get yourself another 20gal tote or maybe even a bigger 27gal if it's HDX brand, and use it as a reservoir.
From this res, (which you might already have, but I'm assuming these are 2 stand alone totes) you'll connect the 2 totes to it on the bottom with 2" bulkheads and black ABS pipe as a gravity return. Using the res as an epicenter, you can either use a submersible or preferably, an inline pump, to supply a simple 3/4" PVC manifold that stretches the distance needed to reach your totes. Then branch off and reduce to 1/2" black vinyl hydro tubing to introduce WATERFALLS to these totes.

The constant breaking of the waters surface tension will be enough if not MORE THAN what air stones can provide as far as dissolved oxygen goes. The constant recirculation of water keeps everything very stable and happy, including your pH and oxygen distribution. Check it out. There's a brigade of us here who have seen muh thread and gone this route and never looked back.
Including but not limited to:
My boys:@fragileassassin
@5BY5LEC
@Axion42

I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)

That thing is way overpriced. The whole thing sits on a very simple method of splitting the water to oxygen and hydrogen. In big system I’d be worried about the hydrogen gas... I was looking around and saw 2 more very interesting thing. First one called Carmin. I don’t really get how it...

www.rollitup.org

I GOTTA LOSE THE AIR PUMPS! HOW?! Plus my awesome mini DWC :)

That's cool man. Pretty low-key. I think you'll be surprised at the pressure of mine. i can't remember now, but its some where around 5-600 gph

www.rollitup.org

Click to expand...

Got a very similar setup. 27 gal reservoir, 35 gallon growing chamber w 2 plant sites. 2 1" return lines and a 1/2 " waterfall manifold. I also run 3 air stones in my grow tote. Do I need them? Idk. Makes me sleep better at night. Roots still gravitate to the air stones so there is something to it. But absolutely rdwc when set up properly provides huge yeilds in small spaces assuming you have decent vertical space. Love it.

Southside112 said:

Got a very similar setup. 27 gal reservoir, 35 gallon growing chamber w 2 plant sites. 2 1" return lines and a 1/2 " waterfall manifold. I also run 3 air stones in my grow tote. Do I need them? Idk. Makes me sleep better at night. Roots still gravitate to the air stones so there is something to it. But absolutely rdwc when set up properly provides huge yeilds in small spaces assuming you have decent vertical space. Love it.

Click to expand...

I know me and 3 other members here that will tell you that you can sleep easy knowing you don't need to waste your time, money, or sanity on those Air: pumps/stones/lines.

Airwalker16 said:

I know me and 3 other members here that will tell you that you can sleep easy knowing you don't need to waste your time, money, or sanity on those Air: pumps/stones/lines.

Click to expand...

Like I said I'm sure I have enough waterfall effect. It has 3 separate 1/2" streams pouring into the grow tote. 925 gph submersible pump. I have a nice current in the reservoir. I dont see how the 3 air stones would hurt when in regular dwc that's all you have and those plants do fine. Overkill maybe but it doesn't bother me. My system is 32 gallons at 1/2" below net pots. Here is my current grow using this system @ 6 weeks flowering. Thanks.