Afganistan Collapse

mudballs

Well-Known Member
What group or class of US women is being subjected to an oppression as severe and widespread as the Afghani women face? What specific oppression? Cite sources please.
im not gonna go digging through human traficking and sex trafficking court documents, im just gonna say it does exist
 

CatHedral

Well-Known Member
im not gonna go digging through human traficking and sex trafficking court documents, im just gonna say it does exist
This is why I asked to cite sources. They would destroy your argument.

USA stats suggest 50 thousand instances of human trafficking per annum domestically.

Afghanistan: 70 to 80 per cent of ALL women, so 12 to 14 million, face forced marriage, a form of trafficking.

You just committed the both sides troll.
 
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mooray

Well-Known Member
no i attempted to shed light on...oh dear god i know where this is going...later amigo
It's not binary, so every country has every bad thing happening to every group, somewhere. I think the point is just the whole exception versus the rule, meaning it's the exception here and the rule over there, which of course is a massive difference and trying to draw any sort of parallel is problematic at best.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Acceptable to who? Why does America decide? That is just propaganda for Americans. Besides, Americans can't really talk about what is acceptable when what goes on in our own country. Not like America is a glowing example of rights and high morals.
Who says it is just America that decides (And it is funny the United States of America decides the term America will be used for its own purpose. There is Canada in North America, Mexico and all the little countries in central America, then the South America countries. Why could one of them decide to cal themselves America?) NATO sunk ten years in there also, think the Europians to the tune of $3.1 trillion.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
im not gonna go digging through human traficking and sex trafficking court documents, im just gonna say it does exist
Nothing a good old, strip her from the waist up, fill a hole with her and start stoning her, or just chopping people's heads off, yeah, not too much difference when the trafficers hid their activities, the other carried out by the government.
 

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
Here's some context for the thread. Take from it what you want.

29 February 2020

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-51692546

He said the Taliban had been trying to reach an agreement with the US for a long time, and that he had faith in the deal because "everyone is tired of war."
The deal was signed by US special envoy Zalmay Khalilzad and Taliban political chief Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar with Mr Pompeo as a witness.
In addition to withdrawing US and allied troops, the deal also provides for a prisoner swap.
Some 5,000 Taliban prisoners and 1,000 Afghan security force prisoners would be exchanged by 10 March, when talks between the Taliban and the Afghan government are due to start.

The US will also lift sanctions against the Taliban and work with the UN to lift its separate sanctions against the group.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
What group or class of US women is being subjected to an oppression as severe and widespread as the Afghani women face? What specific oppression? Cite sources please.
Human trafficking is a real thing in America, you can google it yourself if you wish.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
This is why I asked to cite sources. They would destroy your argument.

USA stats suggest 50 thousand instances of human trafficking per annum domestically.

Afghanistan: 70 to 80 per cent of ALL women, so 12 to 14 million, face forced marriage, a form of trafficking.

You just committed the both sides troll.
50,000 sounds like a enough of a reason to me to focus on our own problems.
 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
Who says it is just America that decides (And it is funny the United States of America decides the term America will be used for its own purpose. There is Canada in North America, Mexico and all the little countries in central America, then the South America countries. Why could one of them decide to cal themselves America?) NATO sunk ten years in there also, think the Europians to the tune of $3.1 trillion.
Come on really? It's America's War and shame. I'm glad you want others to share in it, but we all know that America was the country that put together the coalition of the willing was it? But yes, no country should decide anything for any other country. Trade and incursion or exclusion are the ways to handle these problems. Other than the heroine they have nothing we want anyway so let them do whatever they want to do. Before 9'11 how many Americans could even point to it on the map? (How many now?) Funny that we never cared about the poor women till it was convienant.
 

injinji

Well-Known Member
I've found that a well written novel will often shed more light on a people that hours of documentaries. For anyone wanting to know more about the folks in question, find a copy of The Horsemen by Joseph Kessel. (translated from the French Les Cavaliers by Patrick O'Brian) It's about sport, but it will show the folly of trying to change people into something they are not.

What we should have done? Left after 18 months. We had done what we came to do. Everything since has been delaying what is happening now.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Come on really? It's America's War and shame. I'm glad you want others to share in it, but we all know that America was the country that put together the coalition of the willing was it? But yes, no country should decide anything for any other country. Trade and incursion or exclusion are the ways to handle these problems. Other than the heroine they have nothing we want anyway so let them do whatever they want to do. Before 9'11 how many Americans could even point to it on the map? (How many now?) Funny that we never cared about the poor women till it was convienant.
Really.

"How many Americans can point to..."

There is a problem with that, isn't there?

Heroine - "a woman admired or idealized for her courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities"

No, you didn't care about the women there before or now. Probably did not care that the Taliban blew up Buddha Statues that were designated as a UNESCO World Heritage Site.

But let's look at the bigger picture. Why did the Afghan project fail? When it is all boiled down, it is Pakistan that caused twenty years of work to fail. Look for Bin Laden? Don't bother looking in Afghanistan, you can find him a stone's throw from a major Pakistan military training facility. Why did Pakistan not police the border region with Afghanistan where the Taliban would cross the border to regroup and supply. Because the far flung areas are mainly off on their own and rule themselves. With much in common with the Taliban. And the Heroin coming out of Afghanistan? Where do you think the money came from for all the weapons? The Taliban banned heroin but in fighting the US found that their beliefs can be set aside for good cause, making money.

And there is more money to be made in Afghanistan. The Chinese will jump right in, they do not care what happens to the people living in a region, as long as they get the resources they want. Gold, platinum, silver, copper, iron, chromite, lithium, uranium, and aluminium. Lithium is the big one for a world getting off of fossil fuels. Then there are rugs, for the traditionalists. The next big export will be people though. Those with the means to escape the Talliban. Most will go to Europe. who is already reeling from the other Islamic countries conflicts.

But the worst thing they export is intolerance and hate. So don't think that will be the end of Afghanistan as far as the US is concerned.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
I've found that a well written novel will often shed more light on a people that hours of documentaries. For anyone wanting to know more about the folks in question, find a copy of The Horsemen by Joseph Kessel. (translated from the French Les Cavaliers by Patrick O'Brian) It's about sport, but it will show the folly of trying to change people into something they are not.

What we should have done? Left after 18 months. We had done what we came to do. Everything since has been delaying what is happening now.
The US is pretty good at making war, not too good at making peace.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
The Taliban were in power for 6 years. That was it. The US was running the show three times that length of time. This is a pretty good read, hope the Taliban rulers realize they should not continue with their past practices.

 

DaFreak

Well-Known Member
But the worst thing they export is intolerance and hate. So don't think that will be the end of Afghanistan as far as the US is concerned.
Not a big fear of mine to be honest. I'm more scared of my fellow Americans and their love of guns and mass shootings than I am of Afghanistan exporting hate. Good luck to them, the only thing they did was give a patch of sand for wanna-be terrorists to practice in. As you say, America's real enemy is not the Taliban, and while I appreciate you brining up Pakistan, the real culprit are the Saudis, and follow the real blame it comes back to us. Reap what you sow as they say. Well we sowed a lot of bullshit around the world.
 

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
It's a lose-lose situation I think.

We stay and keep trying to pretend the Afghan military is competent and the Taliban keeps waiting for us to leave.

We leave and this is what happens. Probably much sooner than anybody thought except for the Taliban.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Not a big fear of mine to be honest. I'm more scared of my fellow Americans and their love of guns and mass shootings than I am of Afghanistan exporting hate. Good luck to them, the only thing they did was give a patch of sand for wanna-be terrorists to practice in. As you say, America's real enemy is not the Taliban, and while I appreciate you brining up Pakistan, the real culprit are the Saudis, and follow the real blame it comes back to us. Reap what you sow as they say. Well we sowed a lot of bullshit around the world.
The Saudis are not a big concern. What will they do, aim an oil tanker at the US? But Pakistan with its nuclear missiles...
 
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