advanced nutrients vs. fox farm

OK, to the vocal few, I'll bite but with certain conditions.

1. Make your recommendations for ONE AN product, and only one that you have used used for veg, to promote foliage production and health... a "grow" food,

2. Recommend ONE, and only one product that you recommend for the flowering stage.....a "bloom" food.

3. Product recommendations can not cost more than $15 USD/liter, internet cost.

I'm not interested in corny label names. I require the NPK values for the products recommended to be able to make a professional assessment and decision as to whether or not I'm willing to give them a try.

Thanks,
UB

Uncle Ben said:

OK, to the vocal few, I'll bite but with certain conditions.

1. Make your recommendations for ONE AN product, and only one that you have used used for veg, to promote foliage production and health... a "grow" food,

2. Recommend ONE, and only one product that you recommend for the flowering stage.....a "bloom" food.

3. Product recommendations can not cost more than $15 USD/liter, internet cost.

I'm not interested in corny label names. I require the NPK values for the products recommended to be able to make a professional assessment and decision as to whether or not I'm willing to give them a try.

Thanks,
UB

Click to expand...

It's going to cost more than that to get the products....I suspect you know that already though.

UB, where is a link to your current grow journal? I would like to follow along and see your progress....so far I've seen pictures that look like they are from the 70's (your avatar...while I admit, it might just be that you think a cheap camera takes "just as good a picture" as more expensive ones, thus giving the illusion that the pictures are old and rundown.

Also, I should point out...in soil I completely agree that less expensive fertilizers work fine as the basis for a good grow is always going to be quality soil, but what do you suggest for the hydroponic grower? What cheap alternative do you think works best?

I can field the 2nd half of that question from reading other threads by UB:

Grow: Dynagro Foliage pro http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=FP410&AC=1 9-3-6

AFTER STRETCH bloom: Dynagro Bloom http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=DB410&AC=1
3-12-6

Can I suggest a compromise? Lets analyze the effective NPK of the 2-part a+b for both the grow and bloom and then pick 1 set to have him try. That would be about 30$ for both part of either formula. This is touted as the ultimate canna-specific nute and that is really where this whole thread has gone.

laserbrn said:

It's going to cost more than that to get the products....I suspect you know that already though.

UB, where is a link to your current grow journal?

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I'm not currently growing. What's your point? That botany changes in 2 years? You do understand botany don't you, or is your focus strictly on the vast field of snake oils, following orders, charts, etc.

I would like to follow along and see your progress....

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No you don't, you're engaged in your usual shit stirring MO, now attempting a FUD drill and deflecting the issue. You did not address my request with any recommendations.

If you want to learn (and see) the UB way, there are hundreds of pages you can read here at RIU, go fer it. I have posted journals for over a decade until I'm blue in the face and will do no more. Every forum I've posted to, spent alot of time on regarding journals and galleries (some don't get it unless they see a photo) has gone tits up - Cannabis.com, OG, CW, PG. The last one to go tits up, Planet Ganja was owned by Gadabout who desperately asked for donations to keep it up and running only to take the money and run, never to be heard from again, leaving thousands of dead threads and galleries on some hard drive lost in virtual space. If you don't think RIU can't pull the plug at any moment, you're a fool. One thing that's a given in this biz - cannabis forums come and go, and there's a sucker born every minute.

Also, I should point out...in soil I completely agree that less expensive fertilizers work fine as the basis for a good grow is always going to be quality soil, but what do you suggest for the hydroponic grower? What cheap alternative do you think works best?

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If you had followed my posts, I've made my recommendation dozens of times. Dyna-Gro - complete (16 elements in ONE bottle), highest quality, low cost.

https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/282713-best-n-p-k.html

Here's one grown with Dyna-Gro's 9-3-6. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-73.html#post3542324

UB

doogleef said:

Can I suggest a compromise? Lets analyze the effective NPK of the 2-part a+b for both the grow and bloom and then pick 1 set to have him try. That would be about 30$ for both part of either formula. This is touted as the ultimate canna-specific nute and that is really where this whole thread has gone.

Click to expand...

1liter bottles ~ 15$ ea

Bloom
4.3-0-3.1
1.5-6.1-5.7

5.8-6.1-8.8 total

Grow
3.7-0-0
2.5-2.2-5.7

6.2-2.2-5.7 total

We really need the rest of the GA. You guys got bottles of this crap lying around. Post a pic of the back.

doogleef said:

I can field the 2nd half of that question from reading other threads by UB:

Grow: Dynagro Foliage pro http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=FP410&AC=1 9-3-6

AFTER STRETCH bloom: Dynagro Bloom http://www.wormsway.com/detail.aspx?t=prod&sku=DB410&AC=1
3-12-6

Can I suggest a compromise? Lets analyze the effective NPK of the 2-part a+b for both the grow and bloom and then pick 1 set to have him try. That would be about 30$ for both part of either formula. This is touted as the ultimate canna-specific nute and that is really where this whole thread has gone.

Click to expand...

Gawd, why do vendors spread such half truths! Look at wormsway attempt to attract stoners: "The 9-3-6 NPK ratio of Foliage-Pro is just what plants need for big time foliage production. By increasing mineral utilization, this concentrated nutrient helps plants rid themselves of salt and other elements that inhibit the growth of thick, healthy leaves. "

Huh?

Lol. Yea i read that 1 and rolled my eyes too. Shit's cheap tho. No more GH for me.

wtf is "canna specific"?

nitrogen is nitrogen.

Uncle Ben said:

I'm not currently growing. What's your point? That botany changes in 2 years? You do understand botany don't you, or is your focus strictly on the vast field of snake oils, following orders, charts, etc.

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I don't know you from Adam and without something to substatiate your claims what I am to go off? You ARE going against the widely available information, it would be easier with some persuasion.

Uncle Ben said:

No you don't, you're engaged in your usual shit stirring MO, now attempting a FUD drill and deflecting the issue. You did not address my request with any recommendations.

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You certainly don't know my intentions, so don't pretend to. I'm not deflecting any issue, you have no intention of growing with any AN product (hence the $15.00 cap. That's like saying "I'd bet I can outgrow you, want to bet a million dollars, oh you don't have a million dollars? Then I guess I'm right!" Silly childrens games. No one is disputing the higher cost of AN products so it doesn't make any sense.

Uncle Ben said:

If you want to learn (and see) the UB way, there are hundreds of pages you can read here at RIU, go fer it. I have posted journals for over a decade until I'm blue in the face and will do no more. Every forum I've posted to, spent alot of time on regarding journals and galleries (some don't get it unless they see a photo) has gone tits up - Cannabis.com, OG, CW, PG. The last one to go tits up, Planet Ganja was owned by Gadabout who desperately asked for donations to keep it up and running only to take the money and run, never to be heard from again, leaving thousands of dead threads and galleries on some hard drive lost in virtual space. If you don't think RIU can't pull the plug at any moment, you're a fool. One thing that's a given in this biz - cannabis forums come and go, and there's a sucker born every minute.

Click to expand...

Links? I can't go looking through thousands of posts to find the ones you have of your grow journals.

Uncle Ben said:

If you had followed my posts, I've made my recommendation dozens of times. Dyna-Gro - complete (16 elements in ONE bottle), highest quality, low cost.

Click to expand...

I can't seem to locate this product...Dyna-Gro Complete. Is that the name of the product? I found the standard Dyna-Gro and the "grow" has an NPK of 7-9-5? AN's 2 part is 6.2-2.2-5.7

The bloom is 3-12-6 for Dyna Grow and he Bloom for AN is 5.8-5-9.1. I'm just not seeing where AN has missed the train about needing nitrogen to maintain leaf health...Looks like they've got that covered.

-Is there a feeding schedule with this product? Have you ever USED this product in hydro (as that was my question)? I'm not against cheaper alternatives, I just need some persuasion. I'd love to stop buying expensive ferts, but I've completed many grows without losing a SINGLE leaf and growing big ass buds.

Uncle Ben said:

Here's one gr-own with Dyna-Gro's 9-3-6. https://www.rollitup.org/advanced-marijuana-cultivation/151706-uncle-bens-topping-technique-get-73.html#post3542324

UB

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You used 9-3-6 throughout the entire grow?

I've given up with arguing with you about the effectiveness of AN's products as you don't know about it, but I would like you to shed some light on how DynaGro performs. And I mean it with ALL sincerity. There's a whole world out there AGAINST what you are saying and it's going to take a little persuasion to get me to think against "conventional wisdom".

Advertizing hype is everywhere just look at the ads for bow flex etc 20 min 3x a wk and even you can look like this ..Good ol american marketing. same for nutrients. We all get taken in at least once.Use common sense watch your plants and listen to the people who know!! Thanks UB and Roseman when I get in trouble with my grow I know who's gonna help...no hype just good sense.

Uncle Ben said:

I paid $12 about 14 years ago for a quart each of the best food on the market, Dyna-Gro's Foliage Pro and Blossom Booster, both complete with the correct NPK values for optimum production, and am still using it. UB

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UB

When flowering do you use both or just the Blossom Booster?

Thanks

Dyna Grow? LOL Best on the market... LOL You've got to be kidding me..

You know that stuff is made for Orchids by an orchids grower in the Bay Area? He's about as fruity as a fruitcake too..

Next time you see a bottle of DG shake it up and listen to the gravel in the bottle.

Besides it's a Hydro food and if you listen to Ben you can't use a Hydro food in soil.. sorry..

Mark5:9 said:

Dyna Grow? LOL Best on the market... LOL You've got to be kidding me..

You know that stuff is made for Orchids by an orchids grower in the Bay Area? He's about as fruity as a fruitcake too..

Next time you see a bottle of DG shake it up and listen to the gravel in the bottle.

Besides it's a Hydro food and if you listen to Ben you can't use a Hydro food in soil.. sorry..

Click to expand...

I DID ask about hydro foods, so that's why he made the recommendation. I won't bash DynaGro without trying it, just as UB shouldn't bash AN without trying it. It's a matter of whether the gains are subastial for the increase in cost. The cost of AN is already so low that I don't really consider it a concern so I've continued to use it based on the results that I've had and others have had. I don't recall ever seeing a grow done with DynaGro so I may just give it a shot.

My next grow I'm doing a side by side comparison of soil vs. hydro so I wouldn't be able to compare DynaGro to AN for at least 4-5 months, but if this is still a topic of dispute (doubtful) I'll go ahead and give it a try. I'm all for a cheaper alternative, but I like to ACTUALLY try things before spouting off at the mouth about them.

laserbrn said:

I DID ask about hydro foods, so that's why he made the recommendation. I won't bash DynaGro without trying it, just as UB shouldn't bash AN without trying it. It's a matter of whether the gains are subastial for the increase in cost. The cost of AN is already so low that I don't really consider it a concern so I've continued to use it based on the results that I've had and others have had. I don't recall ever seeing a grow done with DynaGro so I may just give it a shot.

My next grow I'm doing a side by side comparison of soil vs. hydro so I wouldn't be able to compare DynaGro to AN for at least 4-5 months, but if this is still a topic of dispute (doubtful) I'll go ahead and give it a try. I'm all for a cheaper alternative, but I like to ACTUALLY try things before spouting off at the mouth about them.

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If you can find it go for it. It's not a 'bad' food. It works. I used it.. about 8 years ago.. wasn't impressed. It did some funky stuff to my pH so keep an eye on it.

If you were to do a side by side with AN I'm sure AN would out preform DG. The increase in harvest 'value' will pay for the difference in cost and more.

Mark5:9 said:

If you can find it go for it. It's not a 'bad' food. It works. I used it.. about 8 years ago.. wasn't impressed. It did some funky stuff to my pH so keep an eye on it.

If you were to do a side by side with AN I'm sure AN would out preform DG. The increase in harvest 'value' will pay for the difference in cost and more.

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I already know that...I would just do it so I wasn't talking out of my ass on the subject. The cost savings is retarded argument and I've had great success with AN and as I've stated, done ENTIRE grows without losing a single leaf from clones. AN knows that N is important in plants and thus has an NPK of 5.8-5-9.1 unlike the dynagro with an npk of 3-12-6 where I can almost guarantee leaf drop. But hey what do I know, I'm only preaching what UB preaches, that these plants need higher nitrogen foods and promoting good foliage growth is the best way to increase yield and keep your plants healthy.

I think he looks at the "additives" as if they are standalone products. Yes Big Bud is 0-15-40, but it's used in a small portion (about 200ppm) in my garden while the base nutes can be as high as 1000-1200ppm or even higher on larger plants or more hungry strains. It does not act as an antagonist as it's applied at 1/5th the strength of the base nutrients giving it the effective NPK of 0-3-8 and changing my overall NPK to 5.8-8-17. While this is slightly in K, it works very effectively and my buds have been larger since I started using it.

It's not like I use 0-3-8 nutrients as my base nutrients, it's an additive and the results have shown to be: Bigger, denser buds and increased yields. That's from my EXPERIENCE in using the products and not purely from speculation. No one that I know that has used the product has ever dropped it from their lineup. That speaks volumes.

Uncle Ben said:

I'll be the judge of that. Got some pix fer me?

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i will never share anything with any snitches... people who tell on each other shouldnt be tolerelated in the marijuana industry, and people who dont grow shouldnt be on grow forums unless they are there to help...

I cant imagine spending my time on here and not even growing

just my opinions.... you dont need to report me.

May not like the message but you can't deny the SCIENTIFIC principles behind everything UB says. Marketing and feel-good additives are for suckers. I've been there too. SPending too much for too little then buying additives to supply natural elements the plant will make on it's own given enough basic nutrition.

Don't take it personally as it is not an attack on you. Sometimes it is hard to admit when you have conclusively been proven wrong and taken advantage of. Plants are plants. Botany is botany. The idea that 50 yrs of grow IQ goes out the door cause he does not have beans in the ground right now is laughable.

Use dynagrow for your next dro run. I am. 9-3-6 till after stretch then the 3-12-6. If applied after stretch you should see NO N DEFF.

i will try that doogleaf, thanks for the suggestion.

i will have to disagree that all additives are for suckers because i have seen the increase in yield my additives have givin me, and i had no deficiencies before during or after i started using the additives.

my main argument with the cheap nutes like Miracle Gro, Miracle Gro for Tomatos, Peters 20-20-20, Shults, and the some others that i have used, is that they leave your end product tasting bad even with a heavy 2 week flush... im not a scientist so i dont know the exact reason why that is, but i have tried a lot of products and would not recommend the ones i listed. Maybe some people dont mind the taste, but the people in my area surly do.

I havent tried the dyna products yet, so i am willing to do a side by side at some point.

since u said u are using it maybe u could answer a couple questions for me?

How much does it cost, and how much do you use per gallon? UB said he bought 2 bottles 14 years ago and is still using them?? I wonder how many plants he grew?

and can u tell me how much calcium is the dynagrow products you listed?

doogleef said:

May not like the message but you can't deny the SCIENTIFIC principles behind everything UB says. Marketing and feel-good additives are for suckers. I've been there too. SPending too much for too little then buying additives to supply natural elements the plant will make on it's own given enough basic nutrition.

Don't take it personally as it is not an attack on you. Sometimes it is hard to admit when you have conclusively been proven wrong and taken advantage of. Plants are plants. Botany is botany. The idea that 50 yrs of grow IQ goes out the door cause he does not have beans in the ground right now is laughable.

Use dynagrow for your next dro run. I am. 9-3-6 till after stretch then the 3-12-6. If applied after stretch you should see NO N DEFF.

Click to expand...

"I am" as in I am going to use it in my next run or "I am" as in, I'm currently using it?

Do you have a link to your journal?

doogleef said:

May not like the message but you can't deny the SCIENTIFIC principles behind everything UB says. Marketing and feel-good additives are for suckers. I've been there too. SPending too much for too little then buying additives to supply natural elements the plant will make on it's own given enough basic nutrition.

Don't take it personally as it is not an attack on you. Sometimes it is hard to admit when you have conclusively been proven wrong and taken advantage of. Plants are plants. Botany is botany. The idea that 50 yrs of grow IQ goes out the door cause he does not have beans in the ground right now is laughable.

Use dynagrow for your next dro run. I am. 9-3-6 till after stretch then the 3-12-6. If applied after stretch you should see NO N DEFF.

Click to expand...

a well balanced formula with high cal mg is all it takes ya it is kinda of simple to some extent..but there is a world of root zone habitats that is over most heads...the man argues against high p and k then look at the nutes 3-12-6 lol the number might as well be 12-48-24 shults its crap off balanced and truly for the desperate or noobs
this is a fact ...I am sorry if your personal hero is misinformed and misleading swarms of good people..