Abundancy Problem

S

StealthGrow83

Member
Hi,

i am a romanian grower for 5 years and I think its my 11th grow now. I started directly with a hydro system (aeroflow – I think its more a nft than a hydro system) and I still have many problems. So I hope I can get some useful information here. But first my setup:

1 x 400W HPS Lamp

1 x 600W HPS Lamp (the dimmer of my ballast is broken. Therefore I have to run this lamp on 600W)

1 x Aeroflo 10

1,2 m² tend

Nutes: Canna Aqua Vega & Flores, Rhizzotonic, Boost, CannaZym, PK 13/14

Strain: White Russian (Serious Seeds)


It´s the first time I grow this strain, since my last grows were Cheese and Mazar. So I grow from seed and let them grow under MH Lamps for 2 weeks since germination. When they where 6 inch tall I decided to put them into flowering. First I used tap water and mixed it with the nuts following the recommendations by CANNA printed on the bottles. In Week 2 or 3 i´ve noticed a Magnesium deficiency so I´ve decided to mix tap water (EC 0.6) with Reverse Osmosis Water in a 50/50 Ratio because our tap water contains a lot of Calcium. I think its getting better, but there are still signs of Mg deficiency.

But the reason i´m writing is that I have a massive problem with Nitrogen abundance: i´ve reduced the nuts but the leafs are getting darker every day even though my EC isn´t that high -> 1.2! And CANNA recommends EC 1.8 or even higher! My Water tank is aprox. 24 Gallons (I know its huge, but my old water tank is broken and I only got this huge one to replace it). Finally my question: is it possible that the abundance is caused by the size of the tank? Could it be that there is too much Nitrogen in the solution even though I have a low EC? And if so: how much gallons should I use and how often should I change the water?

And my final question: anyone knows how to read in which stadium the plants are? Let me explain: now i´m in week 6 of flowering and according to CANNA it´s time to start with pk 13/14. But the buds aren´t that big and I guess I should wait a bit more… So, how do you decide when to use PK13/14.


Thanks
 
Igotthe6

Igotthe6

Well-Known Member
Give it a bit to straiten itself out. It sounds like you had low calcium wich can appear as o n def.I would bump it up to .7 make sure your ph is good,make sure your e.c meter is calibrated along with ph meter.
 
orbo

orbo

Well-Known Member
StealthGrow83 said:
Hi,

i am a romanian grower for 5 years and I think its my 11th grow now. I started directly with a hydro system (aeroflow – I think its more a nft than a hydro system) and I still have many problems. So I hope I can get some useful information here. But first my setup:

1 x 400W HPS Lamp

1 x 600W HPS Lamp (the dimmer of my ballast is broken. Therefore I have to run this lamp on 600W)

1 x Aeroflo 10

1,2 m² tend

Nutes: Canna Aqua Vega & Flores, Rhizzotonic, Boost, CannaZym, PK 13/14

Strain: White Russian (Serious Seeds)


It´s the first time I grow this strain, since my last grows were Cheese and Mazar. So I grow from seed and let them grow under MH Lamps for 2 weeks since germination. When they where 6 inch tall I decided to put them into flowering. First I used tap water and mixed it with the nuts following the recommendations by CANNA printed on the bottles. In Week 2 or 3 i´ve noticed a Magnesium deficiency so I´ve decided to mix tap water (EC 0.6) with Reverse Osmosis Water in a 50/50 Ratio because our tap water contains a lot of Calcium. I think its getting better, but there are still signs of Mg deficiency.

But the reason i´m writing is that I have a massive problem with Nitrogen abundance: i´ve reduced the nuts but the leafs are getting darker every day even though my EC isn´t that high -> 1.2! And CANNA recommends EC 1.8 or even higher! My Water tank is aprox. 24 Gallons (I know its huge, but my old water tank is broken and I only got this huge one to replace it). Finally my question: is it possible that the abundance is caused by the size of the tank? Could it be that there is too much Nitrogen in the solution even though I have a low EC? And if so: how much gallons should I use and how often should I change the water?

And my final question: anyone knows how to read in which stadium the plants are? Let me explain: now i´m in week 6 of flowering and according to CANNA it´s time to start with pk 13/14. But the buds aren´t that big and I guess I should wait a bit more… So, how do you decide when to use PK13/14.


Thanks
Click to expand...
scratching-head-smiley-emoticon.gif
 
S

StealthGrow83

Member
hi,

100% RO is not an option... you won´t get a stable pH because you have no Calcium in the water... trust me i´ve tried it years ago... the pH will drop to 4 and trying to raise it with pH+ will only help for few hours... and it will cause a massive Calcium deficiency...

They main problem is the N abundancy and i don´t know what causes it... my suggestion is that i use too much CANNA Flores (30ml CANNA per 10 Litres of Water). I´ve put 15ml per 10 Litres and finally got 15ml x 90l = 1350ml in my water reservoir... maybe it is too much even though the ratio is fine. I will try going down to .7 EC but i was hoping that anybody had the same problem...
 
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enigmaphoenix

enigmaphoenix

Member
That's a very high EC for tap water. Personally I would go 100% RO. What is your restriction in not doing so (why even bother with 50/50)? The lower your starting EC the less variables to deal with. You have no idea what minerals etc are contributing to that number. Also that will cut into your final EC measurement. It's a big gamble to stay your current course with tap water, I'd start with taking that out of the equation.

Cheers,
Enigma
 
Johnnywheels

Johnnywheels

Active Member
StealthGrow83 said:
Hi,

i am a romanian grower for 5 years and I think its my 11th grow now. I started directly with a hydro system (aeroflow – I think its more a nft than a hydro system) and I still have many problems. So I hope I can get some useful information here. But first my setup:

1 x 400W HPS Lamp

1 x 600W HPS Lamp (the dimmer of my ballast is broken. Therefore I have to run this lamp on 600W)

1 x Aeroflo 10

1,2 m² tend

Nutes: Canna Aqua Vega & Flores, Rhizzotonic, Boost, CannaZym, PK 13/14

Strain: White Russian (Serious Seeds)


It´s the first time I grow this strain, since my last grows were Cheese and Mazar. So I grow from seed and let them grow under MH Lamps for 2 weeks since germination. When they where 6 inch tall I decided to put them into flowering. First I used tap water and mixed it with the nuts following the recommendations by CANNA printed on the bottles. In Week 2 or 3 i´ve noticed a Magnesium deficiency so I´ve decided to mix tap water (EC 0.6) with Reverse Osmosis Water in a 50/50 Ratio because our tap water contains a lot of Calcium. I think its getting better, but there are still signs of Mg deficiency.

But the reason i´m writing is that I have a massive problem with Nitrogen abundance: i´ve reduced the nuts but the leafs are getting darker every day even though my EC isn´t that high -> 1.2! And CANNA recommends EC 1.8 or even higher! My Water tank is aprox. 24 Gallons (I know its huge, but my old water tank is broken and I only got this huge one to replace it). Finally my question: is it possible that the abundance is caused by the size of the tank? Could it be that there is too much Nitrogen in the solution even though I have a low EC? And if so: how much gallons should I use and how often should I change the water?

And my final question: anyone knows how to read in which stadium the plants are? Let me explain: now i´m in week 6 of flowering and according to CANNA it´s time to start with pk 13/14. But the buds aren´t that big and I guess I should wait a bit more… So, how do you decide when to use PK13/14.


Thanks
Click to expand...
Ive used CANNA a lot and have a few friends who use it as well, are you using BOOST? We always use Cal Mag for the exact reason........I recommend to do whatever the PK 13/14 says. No Matter the flower size if you're in week 6 and the bottle says week 6 then do it..... On your next grow I personally use PK 13/14 in week 3 or 4 and only for that week. Have you called CANNA directly?
 
enigmaphoenix

enigmaphoenix

Member
StealthGrow83 said:
hi,

100% RO is not an option... you won´t get a stable pH because you have no Calcium in the water... trust me i´ve tried it years ago... the pH will drop to 4 and trying to raise it with pH+ will only help for few hours... and it will cause a massive Calcium deficiency...

They main problem is the N abundancy and i don´t know what causes it... my suggestion is that i use too much CANNA Flores (30ml CANNA per 10 Litres of Water). I´ve put 15ml per 10 Litres and finally got 15ml x 90l = 1350ml in my water reservoir... maybe it is too much even though the ratio is fine. I will try going down to .7 EC but i was hoping that anybody had the same problem...
Click to expand...
IMO this is a great reason to go RO. Know you start at close to 0 and add exactly what you need. Or you can take the cal already present and guess at the rest, some of which, and at 0.6 potentially a good amount will be nitrates. Suddenly I was curious as to all potential sources of Nitrogen in ground and tap water, I found this to be an interesting read. http://www.lenntech.com/periodic/water/nitrogen/nitrogen-and-water.htm

I should note I realized just today that I was running Cal deficient due to Fox Farm feed schedule (first time trying these nutrients). Had to add a bit of CalMag to compensate. Hopefully I should see things clear up rather quickly. Also haven't seen a PH decrease yet, and I imagine I wouldn't unless things started to go wrong with algae growth or something else. Lower nutrient concentrations should result in increased PH no?

Cheers,
Enigma
 
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S

StealthGrow83

Member
Hi,

i remember when i got the problem with the 100% RO-Water years ago, i went to an aquarium-dealer to tell him my problem (when you got an aquarium at home, you need to manage the pH too.). He explained to me the "hardness" in the tap water: i don´t remember every detail but there are 2 components that makes tap water hard or soft - hard if there is much in it and soft if it contains less. Let us call the 2 components "good Calcium" and "bad Calcium" (as i said, i don´t remember the technical expressions and maybe it is nitrates as you said, so sorry for that. In fact, Magnesium plays a roll too, but not that much as Calcium).

Now, if you use 100% RO Water you wont have anything in the water. Thats good, but you won´t get a stable pH because Calcium acts as a buffer and regulates the pH and stabilizes it. He told me that i can use 100% RO and add only the "good calcium". He gave me a bit of "good calcium" and a kit to measure the hardness of the water and he told me how much hardness is perfect (EC doesn´t measure the hardness, just the dissolved salts). But that was years ago and i´ve found out that mixing 50% tap water with 50% RO works aswell so i´ve never tried again.

But lets get back to my problem...The link you have posted (Nitrogen in ground and tap water) is really interesting... who know´s, maybe that is the problem here... and trying out starts with eleminating all the stuff that is in the tap water. But i wouldn´t begin with 100% RO. For the sake of a stable pH I think i will start with 75% RO and 25% Tap water because it it easier to handle...

i have consulted wikipedia and it turns out that the hardness is CaCO3 and in the USA it has the unit ppm
 
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enigmaphoenix

enigmaphoenix

Member
Love the discussion and that we are all learning something through this exchange. I certainly am taking a lot away from it and it has spurred more research on my end. Ca and Mg are the two main constituents in hard water. CaCl2-and Ca(NO)3 seem to be the most widely used in agriculture as a fertilizer. Are you in a rural area, lots of farmland? If so this may be contributing to elevated N levels. I have much more to read, but it seems as if the aquarium dealer is spot on that there is 'good' and 'bad' calcium. As in there are many possible bonds and some of these are poisonous to humans and plants.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/content/92/4/487.full Is shaping up to be another good read. Quite a bit out of my comfort zone ATM, but I will make it through this one as I'm determined to better understand the full cycle here.

IMO you are taking the right steps in adjusting the water base first by shifting to 75% RO. I think many fertilizers count on a rough EC of .35 (240 ~ PPM) in the calculations of their feed schedules. And if RO CalMag to compensate. Going 50/50 you should have been right there, but the type of calcium may be of the Ca(NO)3 variety leading to increased N to start. <-- Purely speculation!

On EC/PPM and measuring. A TDS meter (which is measuring electrical conductivity and converting to PPM) will include most all dissolved solids including Ca and Mg. No special meter required, just a standard TDS meter.

Thanks,
Enigma
 
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