? About FLIR

ok so i know about flir but my question is are the police allowed to use flir on your property for instance a shed in your back yard since thats where my grow will be and i want to know if they can use flir on that legally

also i figured im going to have to vent the hot air into the floor outside to try to hide the heat somewhat or is there no point since either way it will show a heat signiture no matter where since its outside ? thanks alot for your time and input

Vent into an attic or somewhere to diffuse the hot air, a box to mix air....

no its in a shed in my backyard so cant vent into attic but how would i make a box to cool the air cus even with an ac u need to vent ac hot air

hey man, its illegal for them to do that without a warrant but the thing is that cops are dicks and theyll do it anyways and then go back and say they smelled pot coming from your house or builiding or say that a neighbor called it in thus giving them cause for a warrant. They are tricky bastards, your best bet for what you are doing is to totally set it up so there is no light that can escape or enter the building and secondly run your lamps during daylight hours, never at night. I grow in my house but set the lights up so that they only run during daylight. When you are in veg you are gonna have to run them during the dark hours so youll have to decide on that yourself. There is some shit that supposedly blocks the FLIR and ill leave the link for you....good luck

http://cgi.ebay.com/Block-IR-InfraRed-Radient-Foil-Shielding-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ330215611156QQihZ014QQcategoryZ43555QQcmdZViewItem

yea i have seen this but concerned about venting the hot air out of the shed will be running during the day but they check it in the early morning and early evening to see who they can catch and for veg i will have a seperate chamber for veg using t5s

ststepen420 said:

hey man, its illegal for them to do that without a warrant but the thing is that cops are dicks and theyll do it anyways and then go back and say they smelled pot coming from your house or builiding or say that a neighbor called it in thus giving them cause for a warrant. They are tricky bastards, your best bet for what you are doing is to totally set it up so there is no light that can escape or enter the building and secondly run your lamps during daylight hours, never at night. I grow in my house but set the lights up so that they only run during daylight. When you are in veg you are gonna have to run them during the dark hours so youll have to decide on that yourself. There is some shit that supposedly blocks the FLIR and ill leave the link for you....good luck

http://cgi.ebay.com/Block-IR-InfraRed-Radient-Foil-Shielding-Hydroponics_W0QQitemZ330215611156QQihZ014QQcategoryZ43555QQcmdZViewItem

Click to expand...

When cops say they 'smelled pot', that works for on the spot search warrants, looking around, that kinda stuff, but it doesn't cover intrusive searches, such as using FLIR. You still need a warrant for that.

It's been about two years since I reviewed my search and seizure laws, but from what I remember the curtilage outside your home is not consitered covered under your reasonable right to privacy. I.E. if they were to use FLIR on your shed without a warrant, it would be legit. They don't need a search warrant. But most cops don't know that, so I wouldn't really be worrying about heat signitures. Worry about smell and keeping your mouth shut. That is what's going to get you caught.

Unless there is no snow anywhere around your shed ... that would look weird.

I don't know about covering up heat signitures though. Can't help you there.

That is assuming that your shed is not attached to the house ... which I'm guessing is correct.

thx yea it was my understanding after reading the law that they could use flir on my shed without a warrent since it just in the back


yea not attached to house but do live in so cal so im going to just run it during the day and hope they dont get me in the ealry morn or evening plus going to go renew my medical liscene so it will be a legal grow but will prob have more plants than i am supposed to

the only thing i can think of is to vent into the ground and dig it deep with a post digger so hopfully that will disipate the heat srry have really bad spelling

disguise the heat sig as something else or diffuse it as much as possible there are also IR resistant materials such as fabric.

yea thats what i will be doing also will be using the expensive ir block just trying to stay under the radar as much as possible all together not worth the hassle expecially since i have a 1 year old son there thats why it is in the back away from him all together

They only need a warrant to use optical systems that can actually see through walls. FLIR cannot. FLIR merely picks up heat signatures on the surface of the outside of your building.

https://www.rollitup.org/legal-edge/121950-eyes-sky-post1674031.html

Already quite a bit on FLIR in that thread.

The other technology out there that it is assumed they are using, because the law in the US does state they need a warrant to use imaging equipment that sees through walls, and FLIR cannot see through walls therefore they dont need a warrant to use it, must be a microwave imaging system currently used by the military - as mentioned toward the end of that thread I posted above.

Microwave is not looking for heat signatures, it can penetrate through building material that is not metalic and feedback an image of the layout inside the room it is viewing. Building fire proofing paper usually takes care of that since it is lined with foil.

The supposed IR blocking variant on mylar being sold out there actually blocks microwaves nicely, but, does not block FLIR. Why, well because FLIR can't see through anything anyways, and heat still travels through the mylar, since that is the function of mylar, to reflect more light than heat to your plants. Where does the heat go? thats easy, through the mylar and to whatever is behind the mylar.

So assuming your local police do not have one of those microwave units, you really only need to focuss on not creating heat spots on the walls and roof of your shed.

If you have no other place to vent your heat, as in underneath or no roof cavity, then I assume there is no insulation on your roof, if so then I would suggest you not grow in that shed if you are concerned about FLIR. FLIR mounted under helicopters will pick up the heat signature on your roof if the only thing between the outside air and your lights is a tin roof.

Failing that if you still intend to grow in there, put an outside light on your shed and vent right beside it. FLIR would be expected to show a heat signature around the light. You could also run your lights on cycle during the day, therefore lights off at night would mean a lot less heat to vent.

that is the best idea i have heard havent thought of that putting a light where i vent the light great but i was going to use this http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=552&navid=33 they are local to me and didnt the supreme court rule that they couldnt use flir without a warrant but thanks fo the great idea what wattage of a light outside do u think i would need to fool them and what type of light u think i could use a high wattage compact flouresnt and make it look like thats the heat or will i need a small hps

The Block-IR infrared Barrier is a bit of a play on words. The images there are what that open tent would look like under flir. Had the flaps been closed the signature would have looked like two blotches where the lights are in the cool tubes.

There are two ways infrared can be described.

1/ infrared light from an infrared generator like an infrared spotlight. That special foil there will block that light from being transmitted because....infrared spot beams cannot permiate anything anways and all that foil does is insulate heat from passing through, therefore whatever is hot on one side, does not leave a heat signature on the other side.

2/ the infrared signature of heat. Every object has a temperature, we cannot see the light that is emitted from that object in relation to its heat because our eyes cannot see infrared light. The Block-IR will block the infrared signature, or infrared light being emitted from an object so that it cannot be seen on the other side, why, because again, all it is doing is completely insulating the heat on one side from transferring to the other side of the ir blocking foil.

You could test this yourself by touching the outside of the foil, it will be cool.

How does it do this. By reflecting 100% of the heat back into the environment it came from. Now, we dont use mirrors as reflectors because they reflect 90 something % of the heat in light back. This results in burning the plants.

What they have done with that material is pitted the surface in order to try and discourage direct reflection of heat which would be worse than using mirrors.

In doing so they have lowered the chances of reflected heat burning your plants.

The downside of this is that your grow room will be a lot hotter than before as no heat will be escaping. The other point is, if you built a grow space inside a shed that left a 1 to 2 foot gap between the black liner/mylar and the wall, infrared cameras would not be able to see the details of the lights as portrayed in those pictures on that site.

What the thermal imager would see would just the IR signature of a warm wall as the heat would have been difused by both the black liner and the air gap between the liner and the wall.

Which brings me to the most obvious misinformation. A picture paints a 1000 words. The images of the tent are cleverly portrayed in a way that without saying it isnt, it looks like the thermal imager is seeing through the tent flaps and giving the Predator/Blue Thunder/Navy Seals Hollywood portrayal of a thermal image seeing through walls.

This is false. The flaps on that tent are drawn. That is exactly what a thermal signature would look like of a flap drawn tent.

As for FLIR and the supreme court. If that were true specifically about FLIR rather than about imaging equipment that can penetrate walls in general, then police helicopters with FLIR would not be able to chase criminals through neighborhoods using their FLIR cameras. Every house they would be flying over they would be seeing inside of illegally.

Do you wanna debate this topic with a bunch of kids or do you actually want a response with someone that has working experience with Flir? This question has been asked a few times, I love how people can't use the search tab below the MJ seeds button at the top of the page. Proper insulation. You're being led on a wild expensive goose chase for nothing with that ebay shit. Just insulate the damn building already with R-30 on the walls and cieling. Properly vent the heat. quit telling your friends your growing pot, and def don't piss off the ones you already told. Unless you're shed is a $8,000, 2 story one loaded out with plants, piss on it, quit being a paranoid pothead, and for gods sake use the search box, this question has already been asked and answered, find my more detailed answer so i don't have to re-type here.

People are going to continue to stress about FLIR irregardless of what you or I say dvsdsm. Thats the conclusion I've come to in the previous discussions I've had on RIU.

I just try to use a bit of science to point out why the whole 'FLIR can see through walls' is bullshit because in the end there is no feasible way you, I or anyone else can prove our previous experience with thermal imaging without revealing our identities.

Even if we did, there would be doubt based on the second level of paranoia, that of, 'they could be undercover cops trying to subvert us into not protecting ourselves against the gamma ray spying satelites...'

However if people want to they can look the science up.

Even when the science is solid, some growers will still go to the extent of buying so called ir-blocking material. In those cases I just try to point out, other than the expense, the bullshit that exists with those materials, and the adverse affects they can have on your grow room.

Even in clearly explaining the mechanics behind that, some people will still go ahead and purchase all sorts of unecessary stuff like that irregardless of what is sensible. [shrugs] its their money theyre wasting in the end for a bit of faux sense of security.

As for using the search function, yep that would have helped, maybe...

Much of the previous discussions on this topic are full of arguments from the 4 points of view, firstly mostly the paranoid view that 'they can see everything', the second view is the one you have put forward, 'I have experience with FLIR, its not what you think it is, it cannot see through jack shit', third is believe it or not, 'I know someone who used to work in blablabla for 20 years! and they said they could see through walls into enemy bunkers etc etc', and the fourth is the one I put forward, a bit about the science of IR and its inability to see through anything, 'so dont sweat it too much', point of view.

So a newcomer to RIU would not be presented with a definitive point of view from viewing the previous posts because for every post saying its bs, there are 20 more saying they can see everything....

In the end ones battle for ones peace of mind seems to win out over the science of it all and using common sense. Hence the little practical tip to vent out right under an outside light to cover the heat signature.

quit telling your friends your growing pot, and def don't piss off the ones you already told

Click to expand...

That pretty much sums up why the majority of people who got busted, got busted.

Definitive answer on Flir: Anything under 1000w not on an exterior wall or open window view, no worries. Anything near an exterior wall greater than 1000W with less than R-30 between, and not vented under the dwelling, or distributed evenly throughout the dwelling to achieve overall equal ambient temps, bad. I know what my place looks like on Flir, I know what iraqi's look like on Flir as well. you can see the heat sig on my Hvac, the corner of the house with my water heater,my cat in a random window, dryer exhaust vent and the exhaust vent and chimney on the roof. No grow room visable. Nothing done to "anti-Flir" it. Just constructed on interior wall away from exterior walls.

The problem is that most people have watched the movies called Navy Seals and Blue Thunder where fictitious imaging equipment pierced through 10 floors of buildings to reveal clandestined meetings taking place between terrorists....

Its right up there with the whole, image enhancers where Johnny FBI agent asks the resident crime labs computer geek to enhance 5 times, a certain section of a low res photo so he can see the number plate. "Clear that area up thanks"...all bullshit.

But that really is the basis behind much of the misinformation circulating about the supposed abilities of infrared imaging technology.

As ive said in other discussions, the reality is if the DEA are sitting outside your house imaging it, someone has already dobbed you in. The whole imaging of your house is just icing on the cake, a small part of a multi-part affidavitt submitted to a judge to manufacture the criteria for a search warrant.

They will point to any heat blotches on the dwelling and claim to the judge that they are signs of a grow room. Who cares in the end if they arent, their confidence lays not in the findings of FLIR but in the fact that they have an informant, probably a friend or foe, who was arrested and who has testified on video that you are growing or whatever.

Unless you challenge the affidavitt which is an expensive affair, you will never know that their original application for search warrants was based on a bullshit interpretation of a thermal image.

FLIR gathered evidence is never the primary evidence for a raid, if it were then chances are they probably fucked up.

Even if they FLIR'd your house and found no supposedly unusual heat blotches they are still going to raid because they have an informant which fingered you, it just makes it harder to get the warrants, but is useful for them later.

What they will do in that case is, when u get to trial they will show the images taken under FLIR, then show the grow room, and show how you used your so called 'criminal skills' and 'dedication to subvert police tactics' to defeat FLIR, therefore making you out to be more than what you are.

Just constructed on interior wall away from exterior walls.

Click to expand...

Yep good idea.

yea well i have read and seached and the fact is it will be in a shed with no isulation and the walls are only a 1 in of a pvc like material so it was i didnt searched i just hadent found deatiled info for my case thanks for the info jonus i apprciated it i wont waste my money on the ir block then and since i will be a legal grow i suppose i dont really have to worry and will run the lights during the day a put a light up to distrupt my venting

dvsdsm i understand ur frustation but i know a little about flir and if u could grow inside my house i would in a quick min have done b4 but now a wife and baby and wife say fine as long as its not in the house but know ur point yea im a little paranoid but better paranoid than caught second i have told no one other than my wife and know how to say safe just wanted to take every step possible

Just make sure your shed is well w/in your home's curtilage, otherwise the fucking pigs can basically look in whenever they want to.

dhhbomb said:

yea well i have read and seached and the fact is it will be in a shed with no isulation and the walls are only a 1 in of a pvc like material so it was i didnt searched i just hadent found deatiled info for my case thanks for the info jonus i apprciated it i wont waste my money on the ir block then and since i will be a legal grow i suppose i dont really have to worry and will run the lights during the day a put a light up to distrupt my venting

dvsdsm i understand ur frustation but i know a little about flir and if u could grow inside my house i would in a quick min have done b4 but now a wife and baby and wife say fine as long as its not in the house but know ur point yea im a little paranoid but better paranoid than caught second i have told no one other than my wife and know how to say safe just wanted to take every step possible

Click to expand...

It's all good bubba, not hatin on ya, just wanna inform ya from an educated prospective. Jonus broke it down for ya very well too. If it's a legal grow, I wouldn't sweat it at all if within limits. More concern about neighborhood teens sneakin around than popo's.