A reason why a new grower might not want to defoliate fan leaves.

Just a share. I'm not against defoliating fan leaves. I have seen it done by some very successful growers.
This may apply to many types of growers but I'm especially talking to soil growers who are thinking of going organic and believe that less is more.
If you have a healthy plant the lowest fan leaves tell a lot about how things are going.
For me the lowest fan leaves tell me a lot about my plants.
These were just flipped to 12/12 a few days ago.
One of these leaves shows a magnesium deficiency, another told me the plant needed Nitrogen, another shriveled up because I let the plant get to dry. All of these things happened and the story is right there for me to follow.
Another reason I like my little fan leaves is that without over fertilizing I like to see if I can keep them green right down to the smallest single blade leaf right up to harvest. Can't do that if I defoliate.

If you are going to defoliate my questions would be:
Did you already learn to read the leaves of your plants?
When you defoliate do you know where to watch for a magnesium or a nitrogen or an under watering symptom all of which are shown on my lowest leaves in these pictures?
Sorry for the HPS lights, at least the flash and being shaded by all the fan leaves helped the pics look OK overall.

I wait until 3 weeks flowering before defoliating.
By then you know the health of your plant and can monitor the remaining leaves the rest of the way.

Good point here!

stripping plants of leaves is not a sound gardening practice anyway but I agree with the premise of this thread and have posted similarly.

In fact I think beginners should just grow the plant naturally more than a few times before pruning or even topping.

drsaltzman said:

I wait until 3 weeks flowering before defoliating.
By then you know the health of your plant and can monitor the remaining leaves the rest of the way.

Click to expand...

Nice!
I am watching a Grow Journal.
I think The Dawg has one of the best looking grows. Makes me wanna look further into getting LED's.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/dawg-house-productions-presents-the-vero29-gen-7-52v-4000k-90-cri-grow.949832/
He has beautiful plants. Check out page 2 post # 37 Day 19 of flowering when he trimmed, looks so good.

drsaltzman said:

I wait until 3 weeks flowering before defoliating.
By then you know the health of your plant and can monitor the remaining leaves the rest of the way.

Click to expand...

What happens after 3 weeks, why do you wait?

Buba Blend said:

Just a share. I'm not against defoliating fan leaves. I have seen it done by some very successful growers.
This may apply to many types of growers but I'm especially talking to soil growers who are thinking of going organic and believe that less is more.
If you have a healthy plant the lowest fan leaves tell a lot about how things are going.
For me the lowest fan leaves tell me a lot about my plants.
These were just flipped to 12/12 a few days ago.
One of these leaves shows a magnesium deficiency, another told me the plant needed Nitrogen, another shriveled up because I let the plant get to dry. All of these things happened and the story is right there for me to follow.
Another reason I like my little fan leaves is that without over fertilizing I like to see if I can keep them green right down to the smallest single blade leaf right up to harvest. Can't do that if I defoliate.

If you are going to defoliate my questions would be:
Did you already learn to read the leaves of your plants?
When you defoliate do you know where to watch for a magnesium or a nitrogen or an under watering symptom all of which are shown on my lowest leaves in these pictures?
Sorry for the HPS lights, at least the flash and being shaded by all the fan leaves helped the pics look OK overall.

View attachment 4043961 View attachment 4043965 View attachment 4043966 View attachment 4043967 View attachment 4043968

Click to expand...

Looks like a combo of needing N and under watering.

If I see a leaf in flower failing I remove it. Mine are never found in new upper growth always one or two at the bottom=BFD.
once gone I see no more ever unless I let the plant go past its peak harvest.
If I see one in veg I know its time for a transplant and feeding to begin. I remove those also and thats that. Chasing mature old lower yellowing leaf issues is a moot point ime. lower leaves get old and die happens everywhere.
I've never found the addition of anything to be able to fix any issue I saw in flower, if anything the issue was first caused by the addition of something outside of the norm here. my 2c

Light penetration can be an issue. I notice on guerilla grows where the bottom leaves get shaded from trying to hide them some will yellow and fall off.

If you have a thick canopy and lowers are not getting enough light the plant will drop them because they are useless.

^ yeah, thats why I typically trim up the skirt to my light penetration spot. shit, thats called defoliation!! I'm a frikken hypocrite now!

whitebb2727 said:

Looks like a combo of needing N and under watering.

Click to expand...

I have been pushing the limits on under watering.

I had a grow in 3 gallon plastic pots that went bad. This summer I had seedlings under 11.5/12.5 from birth. They started flowering much sooner that I expected and I had to transplant them 1 week into flowering. For whatever reason I had no root development afterwards. So I figured since the soil had not been heavily rooted I could experiment with 3 gallon no-till. All of the plant shown above are in 3 gallon no-till.
The plant pictured below has 2 gallons of freshly amended soil on the bottom and a 3 gallon no-till plopped on top of it.
The seedling was moved from its starter pot 4 days after peaking and transplanted to the 5 gallon and was watered heavily. I added a 60/40 mix of castings and perlite in and added an inch of fresh amended soil as a top dressing.
I have weighed this plant often in case anyone is curious or if I get called out.

I have a few that were topped and a few that were started 2 weeks later that were not topped. Not all are in the same soils.

This one was watered once since it was transplanted into a 5 gallon plastic pot and is 21"tall.

Here is a link to the difficult summer grow, it was a good experience for a rough grow.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/

Buba Blend said:

I have been pushing the limits on under watering.

I had a grow in 3 gallon plastic pots that went bad. This summer I had seedlings under 11.5/12.5 from birth. They started flowering much sooner that I expected and I had to transplant them 1 week into flowering. For whatever reason I had no root development afterwards. So I figured since the soil had not been heavily rooted I could experiment with 3 gallon no-till. All of the plant shown above are in 3 gallon no-till.
The plant pictured below has 2 gallons of freshly amended soil on the bottom and a 3 gallon no-till plopped on top of it.
The seedling was moved from its starter pot 4 days after peaking and transplanted to the 5 gallon and was watered heavily. I added a 60/40 mix of castings and perlite in and added an inch of fresh amended soil as a top dressing.
I have weighed this plant often in case anyone is curious or if I get called out.

I have a few that were topped and a few that were started 2 weeks later that were not topped. Not all are in the same soils.

This one was watered once since it was transplanted into a 5 gallon plastic pot and is 21"tall.
View attachment 4044160 View attachment 4044162
Here is a link to the difficult summer grow, it was a good experience for a rough grow.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/

Click to expand...

Silica really helps for drought resistance.

KryptoBud said:

What happens after 3 weeks, why do you wait?

Click to expand...

At three weeks you can usually see the final growth pattern of the colas ... know which will produce quality as opposed to fluff ... and it's about as late a you want to prune a flowering cannabis plant. I snip fans and small branches and manicure it to receive the most light.

whitebb2727 said:

Light penetration can be an issue. I notice on guerilla grows where the bottom leaves get shaded from trying to hide them some will yellow and fall off.

If you have a thick canopy and lowers are not getting enough light the plant will drop them because they are useless.

Click to expand...

Experience will tell you which need to be trimmed before that.
You don't need the bottom fan leaves 3 weeks into flower if you're not letting buds grow down there.

drsaltzman said:

Experience will tell you which need to be trimmed before that.
You don't need the bottom fan leaves 3 weeks into flower if you're not letting buds grow down there.

Click to expand...

I don't need advice on trimming.

I'm of the belief that the plants need all those leaves. As I said, if its not needed the plant will shed it on its own.

I get why people do it. It doesn't increase yield. Just ride the larf.

whitebb2727 said:

I don't need advice on trimming.

I'm of the belief that the plants need all those leaves. As I said, if its not needed the plant will shed it on its own.

I get why people do it. It doesn't increase yield. Just ride the larf.

Click to expand...

Outdoor, I agree.
Limited space, got to make room.
But It wasn't advice.
Just opinion.
Peace.

Our plants are able to convert light energy to another form of energy, via photosynthesis, that the plant is able to use. This energy is produced by organelles which are tiny structures found on the underside of larger, read fan, leaves. By removing the larger fans we are reducing the amount of usable energy available to the plants.

Years ago I decided to start removing fans from an auto grow I had going. I wanted to eliminate the shade from big leaves thinking the more light the better. After 50-60% of the fans had been removed the remaining leaves started to grow in pure albino white. I had removed too many organelles and the plants were unable to produce the proper energy they needed to grow. I ended up with a QB that had no buzz at all.

Long story longer -- you can remove fans occasionally to facilitate light penetration, but there is an unknown point where too many organelles are absent and the product is worthless. If you see white secondary growth don't even bother finishing the grow as all you have produced is toast.

Good luck, BigSteve.

MichiganMedGrower said:

Good point here!

stripping plants of leaves is not a sound gardening practice anyway but I agree with the premise of this thread and have posted similarly.

In fact I think beginners should just grow the plant naturally more than a few times before pruning or even topping.

Click to expand...

Hello Brother!
Just looking over some old threads and realized the plants from my 1st post are close to harvest. I'll share some pics here later.
Ever play in one of those party cup challenges?
I'm sure you are following along. Hope it was entertaining.
I'm looking forward to following the two cups, should learn a lot.
I'm going to have fun next grow starting now lol growing in 16 oz cups.

whitebb2727 said:

I get why people do it. It doesn't increase yield. Just ride the larf.

Click to expand...

It's called, quality, bag appeal, easy trimming for those striving to produce the best flowers possible

OneHitDone said:

It's called, quality, bag appeal, easy trimming for those striving to produce the best flowers possible

Click to expand...

Hi OneHitDone!
Look forward to chatting with you and some of the others in a thread like this. I won't be posting anymore in either of the other two LED threads for the most part.
I think the dawg is one of the best at defoliating.
An old post of mine:


Nice!
I am watching a Grow Journal.
I think The Dawg has one of the best looking grows. Makes me wanna look further into getting LED's.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/dawg-hous...he-vero29-gen-7-52v-4000k-90-cri-grow.949832/
He has beautiful plants. Check out page 2 post # 37 Day 19 of flowering when he trimmed, looks so good.

HPS Organic Grow.
Sharing The Good, The Bad And The Ugly!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/

Buba Blend, Nov 16, 2017 Report

*********

Believe it or not when a newbie says he want's to buy led, I send him to the led section without suggesting other options. Some might not think that is the case.

Two posts below:

**********
Jonathan Beatty said: ↑
wwoow!! Im in. Newbie for growing and preparing 1st growing. but IDK leak what kinds LED GROW LIGHTS with budget limited... Much appreciated if any suggestions.


It might be better to create a thread to your question in the LED section.
https://www.rollitup.org/f/led-and-other-lighting.124/
HPS Organic Grow.
Sharing The Good, The Bad And The Ugly!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/

Buba Blend, Jan 8, 2018 Report


*********

Gimmetheweeda said: ↑
Hello,

I just finished to built my small wardrobe for a single plant in Hydro. This is my first set up with LED lighting as I always used HPS 250/400/600 or CFL 250 dual spectrum.

This is my set up:

SIZE: H 191cm x W 76cm x D 50cm (I’m actually using only the upper part so I’d say 160/170cm height).

GROW SYSTEM: oxypot DWC system, water pump, air stone, drainage tube and pot lifted for easy drainage every week.

WATERING(optional): for the first 2 weeks I’ll use an infusion set to do some gravity feed mixed with a bit of cal/mag by vitalink and formulex, universal profile.

AIR CIRCULATION: 2 x 120mm computer fan (with anti dust grill) installed in the bottom to provide fresh air and move the plant branches.

AIR EXTRACTION: RVK 4” with rhyno carbon filter installed on the top and exhausting out (hole sealed with expanding foam). I’m using Variispeed to regulate the power of RVK.

LIGHTING: 300 w LED light vipar spectra.

LIGHT REFLECTION: Reflecting sheets,Prime quality fixed all around, top and bottom.

NUTRIENTS: Dutch pro A + B, formulex(universal profile), cal/mah vitalink, ph down vitalink.

SUBSTRATE: acqua clay pebbles, cultilene propagation cubes, propagator.

TOOLS: Ph pen, EC pen, thermometer/umidity

I’m also adding a Net to do some SCROG and topping for the first time.

I was wondering if the 300w LED viparspectra would be enough till the end of the crop or I got a few options:

- Should I ad one more 300w when it comes to flowering time with daisy chain.

- Get a 450w LED from same manufacturer and daisy chain to the 300w.

- Get a 600w LED from same manufacturer and daisy chain to the 300w.

- Install now a cool tube (which I already have) for a 250w HPS and lumii ballast 600plus only for blooming. Connected to the air extraction and filter to avoid raises in temperature.

I’d like to keep the third option as least cause I want to finish and start with LED if possible but if anyone got an experience with HPS/LED running alongside, you are more then welcome to share

I’m gonna do one photoperiod plant JACK 47, from sensi seeds.

Some pictures attached.

Please let me know what you think about my set up and what I should do with the light, I’d love to get some advices from experts or someone who already used those kind of lights.

Thanks guys


View attachment 4074210 View attachment 4074211 View attachment 4074212 View attachment 4074213 View attachment 4074214
Click to expand...


You may like this recent thread in the led section:
https://www.rollitup.org/t/viparspectra.957043/
HPS Organic Grow.
Sharing The Good, The Bad And The Ugly!!!
https://www.rollitup.org/t/plants-in-my-1st-soil-recipe-are-still-alive-after-5-days.945380/

Buba Blend, Thursday at 6:16 AM Report


EDIT: Shit, I didn't realize I said that about the Dawg in the same thread I'm chatting in.

********************There are two tournaments starting that new and old growers alike may be interested to join if you grow LED.**************************************************

Must use LED, 16 oz party cups, and 12/12 lighting from the start.
The contest begins Feb 14th.
No entry fee and there is a prize.
Should be educational and fun.
Close to 40 are playing and I am told only 20% usually cross the finish line with a plant grown to harvest.

RULES AND PREREGISTRATION FOR THE TWO TOURNAMENTS HERE:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/preregistration-for-the-great-party-cup-grow-off-of-2018.956937/

https://www.rollitup.org/t/pre-registration-for-the-greatest-party-cup-grow-off-of-2018.957441/