A Conservative Viewpoint on Prop 19

It seems that conservatives are nearly universally hate here at RIU, but as I have pointed out before, MJ legalization is an inherently conservative position even if our conservative politicians have not had the guts to say so:

An excerpt:


"It is indicative of the failure of the current election to deal with real issues, apart from unease about deficits and curiosity about the endless military effort in the Near East, that, once again, almost nothing is asked or uttered about the proverbial War on Drugs, even as the virtual civil war it has caused in Mexico is amply publicized. Almost everyone agrees that hard drugs are a criminal problem, even if there is disagreement about how to fight them and dissatisfaction with the progress to date in doing so. But marijuana, cannabis, is an astonishing story of the hideously expensive and protracted failure of official policy.


There was an increase of 600 percent in the federal drug-control budget, from $1.5 billion to $18 billion, between 1981 and 2002, and it is almost certainly now over $25 billion, and yet cannabis as an industry is an almost perfect illustration of the unstoppable force of supply-side economics. Between 1990 and 2007, there was a 420 percent increase in cannabis seizures by drug-control authorities, to about 140,000 tons; a 150 percent increase in annual cannabis-related arrests, to about 900,000 people; a 145 percent increase in average potency of seized cannabis (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol content); and a 58 percent decline, inflation-adjusted, in the retail price of cannabis throughout the United States."


to read the whole thing:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/251121/drug-war-failure-conrad-black

so besides throwing up stats with copy and paste

What do YOU think of Prop. 19?

jesus of Cannabis said:

so besides throwing up stats with copy and paste

What do YOU think of Prop. 19?

Click to expand...

I already voted yes. So did my wife, and two adult children.

What do you think of P19?

It's nice to see another conservative here on RIU!

Frankly, I don't understand why most growers aren't free market libertarians. After all, growing weed even though it's illegal is a very free market thing to do. Why should some far off government in Washington tell us what we can do? Our actions show we don't respect the federal government trampling on our liberties, and I think most of us here would like to see the 10th amendment (states rights) respected rather than skirted through ridiculous and tortured interpretations of the interstate commerce clause.

Conservatives may or may not smoke up, might personally be against legalization, but they take the position that's it's none of their business. It's the business of each of the 50 states, and if they choose to legalize it, then Conservatives will protect their right do so.

Tinker Greenly said:

It's nice to see another conservative here on RIU!

Frankly, I don't understand why most growers aren't free market libertarians. After all, growing weed even though it's illegal is a very free market thing to do. Why should some far off government in Washington tell us what to do? Our actions show we don't respect the federal government's trampling on our liberties, and I think most of us here would like to see the 10th amendment (states rights) respected rather than skirted through ridiculous and tortured interpretations of the interstate commerce clause.

Conservatives may or may not smoke up, may not want weed to be legal, but they take the position that's it's none of their business. It's the business of each of the 50 states, and if they choose to legalize it, then Conservatives will protect their right do so.

Click to expand...

Amen, brother. "Liberal" used to mean Libertarian in effect. Not anymore, of course, but classical liberals weren't a bunch of nannies out to take care of everybody. The good ole days.

Well, I am also a conservative. Not all of us are toe the line with LEO types.
In a greedy kind of way I see why the growers don't want legal pot. It's their bread and butter being expensive due to being illegal.
I also see the same feelings from greedy distillers and organized crime when alcohol prohibition was coming to an end. It was their bread and butter...
I think we did OK after alcohol prohibition, just as we will be OK when MJ prohibition ends...it will be good when the criminal element is removed.

Most growers I know are conservatives, but they see it differently than you guys do. I personally am for it, and I somewhat conservative (I hate paying for money that I worked my ass off for), but I actually see prop19 as a huge HUGE way for growers to make money. Micro-groweries (grow op crossed with micro-brewery) will be the only ones not raided until weed hits a federal level. Which means our market will start with high quality buds that you could either grow yourself, or get from fantastic local growers. It will take at least a decade for marijuana to be legal federally, so California will be known as THE STATE to go to for micro grower buds. It already is for medical as seen by prop 215. This prop basically gives growers the opportunity to HIT IT BIG.

However, I'm voting for 19, because I no longer smoke that much, and I really only grow for fun, so I don't see any downside for me.

mccumcumber said:

Most growers I know are conservatives, but they see it differently than you guys do. I personally am for it, and I somewhat conservative (I hate paying for money that I worked my ass off for), but I actually see prop19 as a huge HUGE way for growers to make money. Micro-groweries (grow op crossed with micro-brewery) will be the only ones not raided until weed hits a federal level. Which means our market will start with high quality buds that you could either grow yourself, or get from fantastic local growers. It will take at least a decade for marijuana to be legal federally, so California will be known as THE STATE to go to for micro grower buds. It already is for medical as seen by prop 215. This prop basically gives growers the opportunity to HIT IT BIG.

However, I'm voting for 19, because I no longer smoke that much, and I really only grow for fun, so I don't see any downside for me.

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I agree with everything you said.

jesus of Cannabis said:

so besides throwing up stats with copy and paste

What do YOU think of Prop. 19?

Click to expand...

I already answered your question, I voted yes on 19 so I obviously want Cannabis legalized, but I think I should expand a bit.

I posted the link to National Review because I wanted to show RIU readers that "conservatives" are not automatically against the idea of ending the drug war. In fact, ending the drug war is a natural conservative view point, although I admit the conservative philosophy has been high jacked by the social conservatives and most of them want the drug war to continue "for the children". Fiscal conservatives would be hard pressed to defend the drug war. Some of the most influential conservatives were the first to take a position against the drug war, e.g. William Buckley.

Another point: conservative does not equal Republican. Neither party is "good" on the drug war.

I once considered supporting the Libertarian Party, but it didn't take long to realize their core beliefs are as unworkable as those Of Socialism, Communism, or Fascism(or Capitalism, for that matter).

It takes a little of each, addressing our common concerns as well as individual issues in any political unit, larger than an individual.

Any time you limit people's freedoms in support of a political ideal, you are doomed to failure.

If Capitalism isn't controlled to avoid the concentration of wealth in too few hands(our current problem), Democracy will be the next system to prove unworkable.

In truth, the best system is probably a benevolent dictatorship. Stable, with the ability to change directions quickly to avoid policy gridlock(as we're seeing now).

I said in 1992 that we'd have a perfect system if Bill Clinton were made Dictator for life, but with Ross Perot sitting quietly in the corner with a .45 in his lap.

Sanity might have broken out, all over.

desert dude said:

It seems that conservatives are nearly universally hate here at RIU, but as I have pointed out before, MJ legalization is an inherently conservative position even if our conservative politicians have not had the guts to say so:

An excerpt:


"It is indicative of the failure of the current election to deal with real issues, apart from unease about deficits and curiosity about the endless military effort in the Near East, that, once again, almost nothing is asked or uttered about the proverbial War on Drugs, even as the virtual civil war it has caused in Mexico is amply publicized. Almost everyone agrees that hard drugs are a criminal problem, even if there is disagreement about how to fight them and dissatisfaction with the progress to date in doing so. But marijuana, cannabis, is an astonishing story of the hideously expensive and protracted failure of official policy.


There was an increase of 600 percent in the federal drug-control budget, from $1.5 billion to $18 billion, between 1981 and 2002, and it is almost certainly now over $25 billion, and yet cannabis as an industry is an almost perfect illustration of the unstoppable force of supply-side economics. Between 1990 and 2007, there was a 420 percent increase in cannabis seizures by drug-control authorities, to about 140,000 tons; a 150 percent increase in annual cannabis-related arrests, to about 900,000 people; a 145 percent increase in average potency of seized cannabis (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol content); and a 58 percent decline, inflation-adjusted, in the retail price of cannabis throughout the United States."


to read the whole thing:

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/251121/drug-war-failure-conrad-black

Click to expand...

there is no one group of people here hated more than others. this site is not "run" by a certain group. we do not favor sides. this is not a conspiracy. you can relax now.

fdd2blk said:

there is no one group of people here hated more than others. this site is not "run" by a certain group. we do not favor sides. this is not a conspiracy. you can relax now.

Click to expand...

I never said there was a conspiracy here, nor did I think it, nor do I think this site is "run" by any group. Reading the comments from members, though, leads me to believe that conservatives are generally considered to bogeymen when it comes to MJ legalization, at least by those who post continual, "it will all be stolen by the corporations, etc" comments. I posted the link because I wanted to show that true conservatives (not Republicans, not "neocons") are not enemies of freedom.

I am relaxed, now you can be too.

Crunch the numbers mentioned in that NR diatribe.

Whoever wrote it can't count.

veggiegardener said:

Crunch the numbers mentioned in that NR diatribe.

Whoever wrote it can't count.

Click to expand...

Can you be a bit more specific, what numbers do you have a problem with?

Dirty Harry said:

Well, I am also a conservative. Not all of us are toe the line with LEO types.
In a greedy kind of way I see why the growers don't want legal pot. It's their bread and butter being expensive due to being illegal.
I also see the same feelings from greedy distillers and organized crime when alcohol prohibition was coming to an end. It was their bread and butter...
I think we did OK after alcohol prohibition, just as we will be OK when MJ prohibition ends...it will be good when the criminal element is removed.

Click to expand...

Awesome! I'm a moderate but I do lean right when it comes to state rights soooo I couldn't agree more about how prohibition can create a market for organized crime. This couldn't be felt more here in Texas as I live on the border and the violence across, as many of you guys know, has escalated. The "drug war" has fail and as we hemorrhage money to control Marijuana its apparent that the one's making money don't want it legal. Even in this forum there is opposition to prop 19 not because they want it illegal because of some sort of moral obligation but because there income from marijuana will be affected. I hope that Texas will follow suit but we can't propose things here so a politician has to put there reputation on the line and I doubt that will happen anytime soon.