A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions

rainz

Active Member
hiya mate, i was wondering if there is an alternative to using a contactor with my timer? im running a 250w hps and i cant get my timers to work, contactors are expensive and im broke atm lol, thanx
 

Mel O'Cheddar

Active Member
What a wonderful thread!
I did not go through all 73 pages so if my question has already been asked I am sorry. Our house is old (95 yrs) and we want to install a power outlet on the other side (of the wall) of a light switch. Can two people with novice handy-person's skills handle this, or should we just go find a ballast that plugs into a wall? The DIY books have nothing to say on our issue and we are both chickenshits when it comes to electricity.
Thanks muchly.
 

IAm5toned

Well-Known Member
What a wonderful thread!
I did not go through all 73 pages so if my question has already been asked I am sorry. Our house is old (95 yrs) and we want to install a power outlet on the other side (of the wall) of a light switch. Can two people with novice handy-person's skills handle this, or should we just go find a ballast that plugs into a wall? The DIY books have nothing to say on our issue and we are both chickenshits when it comes to electricity.
Thanks muchly.
well my name is not mulchy, but you could try reading page 1......... ;)
this tutorial was written for adding a plug on one side of a wall, where there was an existing plug on the other side to tap into.
it will work fine for adding a plug anywhere, but be warned, often light switches and circuits do not have the correct wires @ the switch to add a plug, especially in older houses.... before you do any damage to your walls, you will need to verify that the light switch has a hot wire, a neutral wire, and a ground wire.
three seperate wires... the ground wire will be bare or green and attached to the metal yoke (part that screws into the box) of the switch, the neutral wire will be either white or grey, and will NOT be broken by the switch, and the hot wire will be what is feeding the switch.... dont splice the hot wire onto the switch leg (or the wire that runs from the switch to the light fixture.... make sure you hit the hot wire, or more properly, the line voltage or homerun or incoming hot....

yes! this is quite a simple operation

what you will need:
tools-
a tape measure
a keyhole/drywall saw
screwdriver
wire strippers/ cutters
stud finder (optional)
plumb level (optional)
material-
an 'old construction' style single gang cut in box (it has ears for easy installation)
a good 15-20amp receptacle (i would go with the 20. there tougher)
2-3 feet 14/2 or 12/2 romex type nm cable
depending on the wiring in your existing outlet you may need 3 red wirenuts
receptacle cover (optional)

all of this can be got at your local hardware store for cheap! (less than 10)

step one- shut the power off to your existing outlet at the breaker box. if your not sure which one, shut it all off. take no chances

step 2 shut the power off!

step 3- make sure its off

step four- are you SURE its off? double check.

step 5- now that you know the power is off, its time to get started. note the exact position of your existing outlet. it helps to use the tape measure to get a measurement off of a common wall to both rooms

step 6- where your going to be adding the new outlet, measure off of the common wall to get an exact idea of where your existing plug is on the other side of the wall. you will need to know this, as your new box will not fit directly behind the old, it has to sit off to one side by about 4 inches to be safe. you also want to be sure that your new outlet is in the same stud cavity as the old. cavities are typically 13.5 inches in width, but can vary so make sure you take time to verify your in the right spot, or else youll end up either hitting a stud when you cut in the box or even worse, ending up in the wrong cavity. then your gonna end up drilling holes to get the wiring in and that is not the purpose here. this is where the stud finder helps

step 7- now that you know where the new box is going to sit, use a level to position it on the wall where its gonna go and use a pencil to trace the outline of the box.

step 8- now your ready to cut. using the drywall saw, you want to cut about 1/8-1/4 of an inch to the OUTSIDE of the line you traced on the wall. start with the horizontal cuts first. this will help you out in case your to close to a stud or the old device or any other surprises inside the wall and will allow you to shift the location left or right as needed.

step 9- yay you have a hole, and a mess! now its time to disassemble your old plug. remove the cover by the single screw in the center. remove the two screws located top and bottom of the plug. stop. is the power off? triple check. pull the old plug gently away from the wall after you triple checked the power being off.leave he wires hooked up.

step 10- this is the pain in the ass part, getting the wire from the old to the new. use the screw driver to remove a knockout in the back of the old box. these are removable tabs in the back of most outlet boxes

step 11- with your 2-3 foot peice of wire, stick it in from the new hole on the other side and do your best to fish it into the old box through the knockout you removed. this always seems to be the funnest part. it helps if you have a person on the other side to pull it up into the box ALOT. you need 12-16 inches of wire in the old box

step 12- take the new box you picked up the local hardware store and remove a knockout in the back. take the end of the wire coming from the old box and get 12-16 inches in it. once you have this done, shove the box and all the slack wire into the hole you cut and turn the two screws to tighten the box down... tadaa!

step 13- strip back the wires in the new box and install the receptacle. the black wire should connect to the gold screw, the white wire to the silver screw, and the green/bare wire to the green screw. if your color blind see the package the plug came in for a detailed diagram. they are usually there. take care to not leave any exposed copper on the hot and neutral, and make sure your connections are almost too tight. loose wires cause fires. remember that.

step 14- screw in the new plug to the box. it helps if you get the top and bottom screws started a few turns, then push the plug up tight against the wall. make sure you dont pinch the wires. then tighten down the top and bottom screws all the way. put a cover on if you decided to buy one. it looks good and there cheap.

step 15- connect the new wiring to the old. is the power off? you better check first. often this is as simple as just connecting the new wires to the screws on the old receptacle. just remember that only one wire per screw, if theres not space you will need to use the wirenuts to tie all the wires together (new and old) and make jumpers (we call em pigtails) to feed the old plug. make sure you connect the hot wires to the hot, the neutrals to the neutral, and the ground to the grounds. if you screw that up you will have a neat little fireworks show when you turn the power back on!

step 16- put the old receptacle back in the wall and put the cover on. almost done

step 17. turn the power back on. if the breaker holds, odds are you did something right. if you happen to have one, use a meter or plug tester to make sure your connections are good. if not a simple lamp is a good tester. if it comes on when you plug it in at both plugs than you did good! bongsmilie
 

surgedup

Active Member
Hey man I have a question I have a 300w led panel has 8 thermo controlled fans if one of them dies how would be the best way to replace each fan. Its chinese made and they look like computer fans ... what would be the process to even start to fix it if they did die or one died ...
 
so glad to see that there is a qualified electrician on this site giving safe information and then there is that other type. at least this leaves the helpless and confused, a one in two chance of getting things right. I had feared i was going to be forced to make comments on that other thread to lead the misguided back to the path safely traveled. I want to applaud you for your efforts, and very sound advice. some poor outfit is missing out on a good service electrician. that is if you haven't rejoined the work force yet. hope you have. as you are more than capable knowledge wise. anyways good job sir good job !!

ibew local 20 retired
 

cmt1984

Well-Known Member
hey IAm5toned, do you know anything about coil heating elements? im in the process of building an annealing kiln.
 
im thimking about adding some flourecents to my grow room in hopes to add the watts per sq. i run metal halide now and im not sure if the math stays the same considering there different lght sources. with my 1000w in a room thats 6x4.5 im getting 37 watts per square. if i add 8 40w flourecent grow aquarium bulbs am i now getting 1320w devided by 27 giving me 48 watts per square? I cant seem to find anything on using both lights!!!!!maybe an elec. knows.
 

Mebudda

Member
IAm5toned

Are you familiar with programming PLC ? I have acquired one and the DirectSoft 5 software. I am highly interested in using it as a timer basically to turn on / off lighting and fans so I would imagine it would be simple enough for someone that understood ladder logic programming, which definitely is not me.
 

BYLROY

Member
Whew. Finally finished reading the entire thread. I must say you have a ton of patience, IAm5toned. You must have answered the same question about 100 times:

14-2 wire = 15 amp breaker = 1440w continuous @ 120v
12-2 wire = 20 amp breaker = 1920w continuous @ 120v

220v doesn't really save power, just cuts down the the amps, allowing you to run more lights
 

BYLROY

Member
Anyway, here's my situation. I was hoping you can analyze it and offer any suggestions for improvement.

I am growing in an older, horribly designed (from an electrical standpoint) four bedroom condo. All four bedrooms are upstairs and they are ALL connected to the same 120v 15 amp circuit. Installing new wire/breaker is not something I feel comfortable doing.

Right now I am running four 12 gauge extension cords from downstairs, each on separate circuits (one 20a and three 15a), into my two upstairs grow rooms (I'm not using the upstairs circuit for growing). Each outlet that I am running an extension cord from has been upgraded to a Leviton 8300-W 20a hospital grade receptacle. I've also sliced each extension cord so that they are the exact length needed to reach my grow rooms. The lengths are approximately 25', 30', 50' and 55'. Each extension cord is pushing 1200-1300w according to my Kill-A-Watt meter. They are also cool to the touch.

Is this setup safe? I know you obviously aren't supposed to use extension cords for "permanent" setups, but I really have no choice.Also, do you know if they made flat 120v 3 prong connectors? I've seen them on appliances but I can't seem to find the raw plug anywhere. With a flat connector, I could push up a piece of furniture right next to it to both help conceal it and protect it from someone tripping on it.

edit: Here is a picture of what I'm talking about.

http://imageshack.us
 

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
I have a couple of extension cords like that. I got them at the hardware store. I've never seen very long ones or just the raw plug, but they are pretty heavy duty (not sure of gauge). I think they might be sold as appliance ext. cords. You could buy a short one and splice the flat end onto another longer ext. cord.
 

DiabloZoe

Member
No. Not ever. That ground wire is there for a reason, to provide a safe, controlled path for fault current. Bonding a neutral load to a grounding circuit is creating a potiental electrical hazard to anything you have plugged in or uses electricity in your entire house.

On a side note, a true 220 circuit does not require a neutral conductor to begin with. Im not going to go into the technical details of phase voltage here, but its pretty simple- 220= no neutral. Some modern appliances require a neutral conductor to run the controls.. this is achieved by tapping off of one leg of the 220 circuit. the neutral then provides the path to ground for 120v control circuit. this is why they now manufacture 4 wire appliance receptacles and cords, and in most areas off the usa are now required by code. You can still find the old 3 wire type tho.

Switching a 110v receptacle to 220v is relatively simple, however I would warn against amateurs attempting this because to pull it off correctly you need to make sure it is already a dedicated receptacle, or is the 'homerun' ( the first in a series of parallel connected receptacles) or else your are asking for all kinds of problems, because in doing this you are going to lose your neutral conducter for the 120v circuit, and if you make the mistake of applying 220v to 120v devices already plugged in to the circuit your working.. bad things happen... very bad things. (say goodbye to that plasma, lcd, pc, a dozen cfl's whatever you have plugged in)
Simple explanation is GREEN=Equipment Ground WHITE=System Ground!
 
Simple explanation is GREEN=Equipment Ground WHITE=System Ground!
half right / green is the equipment ground, the white on 120v ac is the grounded conductor, on 220v ac it is a a ungrounded conductor and has 120v to ground. Iamstoned is a very competent electrician. and has posted very simple explanations to all the questions asked of him/her. not to mention has been very effective in attempting to keep the, i think i know more than i do crowd, from injuring anyone or burning down the house. all of his/her answers have addressed both safety and provided a simplistic explanation.

((white=system ground)) is the term used by a E.E. in single wire diagrams and schematics. it does not apply in trying to explain to laymen on how or what not to do, when dealing with common household electricity.

after thirty plus years in the electrical field, i can say without hesitation that iamstoned is very worthy of your full respect and confidence in the matters he/she has addressed.

PEACE
 

dragun

Active Member
i have a 100 amp breaker box,no space left to expand.thinking of pulling out a 30amp breaker and replacing it with a 60 amp breaker.i was gonna add around 3,000 watts.my stove,water and heat are gas.you see any problems?
 

Danielsgb

Well-Known Member
i have a 100 amp breaker box,no space left to expand.thinking of pulling out a 30amp breaker and replacing it with a 60 amp breaker.i was gonna add around 3,000 watts.my stove,water and heat are gas.you see any problems?
Just a quick point to look at. Wiring is ran by thickness or gauge of wire, so if your wiring is for 30A making it carry twice to A's seems dangerous. I'm far from an expert, just seems valid.
Daniels
 

kana

Well-Known Member
hey i just bought a Fantronix TT 150 extractor fan, but i have to put the wires in myself from the extractor to the plug, i tried myself but wen i put the plug in the socket it did not work, would appreciate the help!
 
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