IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
it would work.. but you would still have to charge the battery somehow lol
i was thinking more along the line of something like this: click it to see prices
A Bored Electrician to Answer Your Questions
- Thread starter IAm5toned
- Start date
i was thinking more along the line of something like this: click it to see prices
Here's my problem.....I have a 400W HPS grow light. One with the ballast built in the hood. When I put this on a timer it won't start....Not everytime that is....I can plug it in directly and sometimes it would fire up and other times it won't....What is wrong with this light? Is it the ignitor or capacitor or what? Thanks......Mr electrician....
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
sounds like a lamp about to shit the bed to me... or maybe the starter, but more likely the lamp.. keep in mind HID lamps will change there temp/k rating over time anyway and are usually useless to grow with after60-70% of there service life is used up. it could be the starter/capicator but this is unlikely especially if you have a newer ballast...
this link has a PRICELESS guide to troubleshooting HID lighting....
click me for the ULTIMATE HID troubleshooting guide
trouble shooting an hid ballast is no fun for even a moderatly experienced electrician. the best advice i can give you is to follow the flow chart in the guide!!!!!!
things to remember-
shut the power off before you start tinkering, and only turn it back on if you are done or need to take a voltage measurement
ONLY a TRUE RMS symetrical voltage meter can be used to check a starter/capicitor. unfortunatly this means you need a 100$ electrical meter to test the starter.. or another starter you know is good to swap out the unknown one with.
and finally... see if your timer is rated for INDUCTIVE LOADS. the longer i spend time on this site the more people i come across having timer problems because of this. if you have a timer that costs less than 20-30$ usd then im willing to bet it is not rated for inductive loads and maybe the source of your problem, and the reason your ballast has become 'weak' and will not start the lamp.
Thank you in advance as pretty damn cool of you to do this for us! 
I am considering a means to reduce the total power bill & a buddy mentioned some sort of power capacitor his electrician installed in the garage. Apparently it hooks to main electrical panel & essentially charges a battery (this is my limited understanding based on buddy's limited explanation). As the house/appliances use power, they draw from these first...? His claim was 25% reduction in bill. Are you familiar w such devices & if so, could you give me a better understanding? Also, considering his electrician is "friendly" to the cause, I'm thinking about going w a complete stranger for the work as they would then have no clue as to what's going on, ya know? Does that seem rational? I'm thinking the work can be done at the service panel only, so if powered down, no issues...? Thank you once again! Peace.
I am considering a means to reduce the total power bill & a buddy mentioned some sort of power capacitor his electrician installed in the garage. Apparently it hooks to main electrical panel & essentially charges a battery (this is my limited understanding based on buddy's limited explanation). As the house/appliances use power, they draw from these first...? His claim was 25% reduction in bill. Are you familiar w such devices & if so, could you give me a better understanding? Also, considering his electrician is "friendly" to the cause, I'm thinking about going w a complete stranger for the work as they would then have no clue as to what's going on, ya know? Does that seem rational? I'm thinking the work can be done at the service panel only, so if powered down, no issues...? Thank you once again! Peace.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
this is a good idea on paper...Thank you in advance as pretty damn cool of you to do this for us!
...but the power company bills you for wattage...
and the most fundamental basic rule of electricity (even before ohms law) is:
power in = power out.
which means that, even if your battery is only using 2watts an hour to charge, and storing those watts as cold cranking amps to be used later on when an appliance starts up you still get billed for it.... its just spread out over a larger time frame. i dont see how it is possible to see a 25% reduction in usage using a sytem of this type.
to me, this sounds like one of those 'improve your gas mileage by 50% by hydrogen injection systems that use water for fuel' kind of gimmicks/scams...
...however there ARE ways to improve your usage, but they are typically very expensive out of pocket for initial startup, especially since your house is already built! and they can take up to decades to pay for themselves in savings. the two most popular/succesful methods (that will make your meter run BACKWARDS so you recieve a CHECK from the power company INSTEAD of a BILL) consist of either a wind turbine generator connected to a battery bank and transfer switch OR a solar panel array connected to a transfer switch/battery bank. these two methods have been proven to be very effective, but like i said, expensive to implement. but they do work, and its nice to replace a bill with a check....
I am looking at starting a grow inside a closet. The closet doesn't have any outlets inside it and just an overhead light. Without cutting open the wall and jacking into the wiring is there a better way of doing this?
I was thinking of replacing the ceiling light with one that has an outlet attached to it. Is that fine? Or would adding a 400w hps to and some fans constantly blow the fuse?
I was thinking of replacing the ceiling light with one that has an outlet attached to it. Is that fine? Or would adding a 400w hps to and some fans constantly blow the fuse?
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
i would be more worried about a fire breaking out from pulling so much power from a light socket... keep in mind the light socket inside the fixture in the closet is only going to be rated for 75watts MAX... if you put an adapter on it and pull 400+ watts through it your kinda asking for trouble. safest bet would be a heavy duty extension cord. another thing to keep in mind is that closet light more than likely gets it power from the same circuit that feeds the room the closet is in...
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
all you need is a 120v 3 wire small appliance cord... u can get one at home depot (looks like you ve been there b4
) red wire = 120v line (hot)
white wire = neutral
green wire = ground
edit/ps-
make sure that when you splice the wires coming from the fan motor to the cord, the connections/wirenuts are as TIGHT as you can get it without snapping the wire... then make sure that any slack wire inside the fan housing is taped/tied/strapped down good and tight, as the vibrations from the fan motor can cause the connections to loosen up over time!
all you need is a 120v 3 wire small appliance cord... u can get one at home depot (looks like you ve been there b4
red wire = 120v line (hot)
white wire = neutral
green wire = ground
Trying to find it on HD, but no luck. Is there a link that you can send with a pic? Much appreciated.
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5/R-100672804/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053
make sure u see my first post, about tight connections inside the fan itself... i edited it
You are the best. You saved me from returning an ordering a diff one.
I dont beleive in karma but if I did I wish lots of it your way
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
capicitor bank energy savings system capitalize on this fact:
older electrical devices (pre 1980's) that have an inductive load (an inductive load typically deals with energy used to create movement, instead of heat) can and will give false readings @ your electrical meter base. this is because the older motors in these devices often do not have there own capacitors inside them, typically because of either size constraints or early component failure due to excessive heat.
however this was before surface-mount technology, and components, were used to manufacture printed circuit boards for cheap mass production... nowadays these components are cheap and simple to make and are found in nearly every major and minor appliance in your house. these are also known as 'solid state' controls.. if your old enough to remember the 80's you might remember all the decent appliances coming out in that time had solid state controls as a major selling point... but back to why u get false readings at the meter:
this is because of the way the actual meter base works. when an inductive load starts up there is a a massive inrush of current, sometimes in the range of thousands of amps. this only happens for about 1 or 2 nanoseconds, and is normal. your electrical meter sees this massive inrush and tries to bill you for it, but since it occurs so fast its over before the meter can register the usage.. so it has a built in mechanism that compensates for this, and gives an average value of the current used. sometimes this average is higher than the amount of power actually used.
BUT the power company knows about this and uses algorithims to compute a fair bill for its end users. this is why several months out of the year you get 'estimated bills'. man, despite common belief the power company is not in the business of ripping off its customers... they are regulated pretty strictly from the DOE on how bills are computed.
however what the manufactures of these energy savings devices never tell you is that this discrepancy in the meter is negligible, literally costing you .01's of a penny per occurance. in other words for every 100 startups, you may end up paying an extra penny on the bill
and in most cases the error is in the favor of the consumer and unless you have a house full of old junky appliances starting and stopping 24/7.. your not going to notice any major differences.the system itself is a watered down version of an industrial motor starter with a battery bank or a capacitor bank as a source for the inrush current to come from instead of through the meter base... but like i said a watt is a watt and you get billed for it regardless of when and how its used so i think the whole idea is just a waste of cash on the part of the consumer.
good business for electricians tho. works on the 'theres a sucker born every minute' premise. ill gladly install any one of these devices for the right money, just dont come crying to me when you dont see the savings you thought you would
edit/note:
on capacitors:
a capacitor is an energy storing device, similar in concept to a battery. they both store power. batteries store power as amps, capacitors store power as voltage. just as it takes wattage to charge a battery, it also takes wattage to charge a capacitor.
and yet another note on capacitors-
they have a finite service life, as many people using mechanical ballasts for there op can tell you... there good for only so many starts, so you would be spending cash to save money on a bill that your gonna have to pay to replace the part that saves you money in the first place!
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
they do use them, however the design of the digital ballast is far superior to a mechanical... component wise. the capacitor bank in a digital ballast is integral to the design, and cannot be removed. because it is used with surface mounted components, the capacitors are tiny, which prevents heat buildup, which in turn greatly extends the life of the component. also, because a digital ballast uses a bank of smaller caps, instead of one big capacitor (like an old mechanical ballast) the current flow on lamp preheat is drastically reduced. in plain english that means that instead of your hps lamp lasting 8-12 months before you begin to lose the k rating, it will now last up to 3 years before the spectrum begins to change. ( at least thats what the manufacturers say) go with digital, unless you plan on running a few dozen ballasts and you want to keep the cost down of repalcing them after a few years. also digital ballasts use less power and generate slightly less heat than there mechanical counterparts, therefore saving you cash on your power bill and reducing your carbon footprint in the long run
whathits14
Active Member
First off, gotta say thanks for all the helpful advice you are giving everybody on RIU. I live in an area where marijuana is quasi-legal and every so often you hear stories about people setting up 6KW+ grows in their houses without getting their electrical stuff in line and it never ends well.
I am looking to do a smallish grow in the house, and was hoping you could advise if I should need to do any electrical upgrades to be safe...
Looking to do min 1200W, max of 2200W in the flower room with a 400W veg room.
The grow room will be set up next to the laundry room which has its own breaker box ( I think its by itself, but IDK for sure). Each fuse is rated for 30 amps. Looks like it just powers the washer/dryer, but maybe the range too...Laundry room has 240V outlet, which I would want to run everything off of if possible, except for the 400W veg light which would be on a separate outlet.
EDIT:
First PIC is schematic for main electrical box on outside of house.
Second PIC is of the box in the laundry room with 30 amp fuses
Third PIC is of the schematic for the box in the laundry room
Fourth PIC is of the main box outside the house
I am looking to do a smallish grow in the house, and was hoping you could advise if I should need to do any electrical upgrades to be safe...
Looking to do min 1200W, max of 2200W in the flower room with a 400W veg room.
The grow room will be set up next to the laundry room which has its own breaker box ( I think its by itself, but IDK for sure). Each fuse is rated for 30 amps. Looks like it just powers the washer/dryer, but maybe the range too...Laundry room has 240V outlet, which I would want to run everything off of if possible, except for the 400W veg light which would be on a separate outlet.
EDIT:
First PIC is schematic for main electrical box on outside of house.
Second PIC is of the box in the laundry room with 30 amp fuses
Third PIC is of the schematic for the box in the laundry room
Fourth PIC is of the main box outside the house
Attachments
IAm5toned
Well-Known Member
err i hate to ask this... but how is your budget for this op?
cuz it looks like to me your going to need to spend some serious cash on your electrical equipment to be able to pull this off...
first off- WHAT IS THAT WHITE WIRE ON YOUR MAIN PANEL DOING COMING OUT OF THE INTERIOR OF THE CAN LIKE THAT??!!! that scares the piss out of me man... and would get your house condemned if an inspector saw it. im so not kidding on that....
second- wtf is that tandem breaker doing in the main panel??? your only allowed 6 SIX breakers in the main disconnect panel.. i count 8.. thats another thing that will get you condemned!
third.. the most important thing here should be the size of the wire that is going from the main panel outside, to the sub panel in the laundry room.. i ask this because that panel in the laundry room should be taken outside and thrown in the garbage, because thats what it is! trash! it NEEDS to be replaced... its an edison base panel and its what i call a major fire trap. you need to know how big the wire feeding it is, so you can get a real loadcenter in there... the only thing you should be thinking about adding to that panel is maybe a rider on your homeowners... covering electrical fires.
im not trying to scare you, but you have some real problems that need to be addressed before you even think of adding equipment to that service... and i dont want to give you the go ahead on it cause i would have a hard time sleeping at night!
seriously... you need a pro to go over your equipment with a fine tooth comb.
what i would suggest as far as getting power to your op would be to replace the old panel in the laundry room with a modern loadcenter, however you may find that in order to have enough spaces to carry the breakers for the equipment you already have (laundry, kitchen) and the stuff your wanting to add, its going to require a 100 amp panel in there, and that is IF the wire going to the panel is #6awg or greater...
..then there is the issue of the ampacity of your electrical service coming in from the street.. is it going to be big enough to carry the additional load? from the look of your panels im not too confident, although its hard to tell without being there in person and seeing with my own eyes. you really need to have a pro there in person, because it almost looks like to me to be able to do what your wanting your going to be forced to upgrade your main electrical service on the outside of the house to a 200amp main panel, which means a new panel, a new meterbase, new conduit, new wire going to the power company's transformer.. THEN your going to have to get a new panel in the laundry room, and depending on the wire size thats already in your walls feeding the old panel, it (it being the wire, if it is too small for 100 amps) may have to be replaced as well!
in my neck of the woods that is a full 8 hours of hard work for a 4man electrical crew that knows what there doing and has all the right parts there to do it... similair jobs i have done for people like what your wanting to do, with a service upgrade and a subpanel upgrade usually cost in the neighborhood of (sit down) 1500-2500 usd depending on the amount of work needed... and thats just for the panels and wire... and that is not counting the stuff your going to need to add for the grow once you get the electrical situation worked out.
seriously i would not connect any additional equipment to that laundry room panel, it is NOT, i repeat NOT NOT NOT designed to be used with continous duty equipment like lighting for a grow op... adding a continous duty inductive load (that means ballasts in non-geek speak) to that panel will cause the main bus bars to start resonating, which will make them loosen up inside the panel, which will cause heat, and eventually, a catastrophic component failure followed by a small explosion.. and presto, house burns down! for real, you need a pro....
..and sorry for being such a downer man.